Why the Animosity ?

[Col]

Note: If I am not supposed to ask this question in this area I won't be offended if you need to move it or delete it or give me a smack. I wasn't sure whether to put it on OBOB or PRE, but as a protestant I thought I would be in less trouble posting it her.

This is not meant to incite anyone to violence (albeit "post violence"), or create a debate or a "my God is better than your God" discussion, nor is it meant to be a platform for eitherside to drum up business.

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

Until I joined this board recently I had not had the opportunity to find out about Catholicism from the horses-mouth so to speak. It has been quite interesting, and all questions I have asked on OBOB have been cheerfully and thoughfully answered, for which I am grateful. I am just wondering why it is that non-catholics often seem to dismiss catholics as misguided and vice versa. I don't personally feel this way, however I would be lieing if I said that I hadn't been influenced to think this way by "Church" (non-C). And from what I have read on this board I doubt I would be far wrong in saying that catholics seem to be similarily indoctrinated. I find this a little sad as arn't we are both trying to walk the same road.

This is very troubling for me at the moment

Bless Ya
Col

 

[micro]

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

Being a non catholic. I dont believe our core belifs are the the same, we are scewed off from each other. Also , Not to make anyone hostile toward me but When you hear of the midevil times were many people were being murdered for there faith and trying to presevre the word of God for all to read, It was the Roman catholic church condoning this!

So to have us all lumped together isnt right! My spiritual ansestors were the ones being murdered.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I think that the real differance between the 2 is that the RC relies on Oral Tradition and the Bible and other Christians rely on just the bible.
As for the animosity, I am not really sure. I left the church years ago and found the Lord and got saved. I really have no animosity at the people, but I do feel bad that alot of RC are indoctrinated like you said. Many are "claiming" it and not really practing that goes for any denomination really. We are trying to walk the same road, however, in my personal opion, I have freedom in Christ and I did not have the freedom when I was in the RCC. That might just be me, but I always felt like I could never live up to the sacraments and work my way to heaven. I felt that I could never do enough to get there.
I just see it as the Lord lead me somewhere else to get me closer to HIM. There are many saved Catholics. I disagree with people saying that there are NOT saved catholics.

 

[InquisitorKind]

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

I can't speak for all Protestants, but non-Catholics such as myself don't actually believe that we share core beliefs.

~Matt

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Being a non catholic. I dont believe our core belifs are the the same, we are scewed off from each other. Also , Not to make anyone hostile toward me but When you hear of the midevil times were many people were being murdered for there faith and trying to presevre the word of God for all to read, It was the Roman catholic church condoning this!

So to have us all lumped together isnt right! My spiritual ansestors were the ones being murdered.

If you don't want to make anyone hostile, then, before you say something this inflammatory, you should do your homework and cite your sources. (advise stopped here)

 

[InnerPhyre]

There was killing on both sides in the 30 years war that ended with the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. Catholics killed Protestants and Protestants killed Catholics......innocent men women and children slaughtered uselessly on both sides, and both sides were equally accountable. Just thought I'd point that out. Helps to actually read some non-biased history. ::goes back to OBOB::

 

[Lotar]

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

First I would agree that we do share the same core beliefs, that is the essentials that define a Christian as a Christian.

The animosity stems from deep theological differences. People get worked up when their beliefs are challenged or misrepresented. Also, in many cases, there is the fact that there isn't much room for coming to an agreement. Many Catholic doctrines are clearly and "infallibly" defined so you have little hope of convincing them of even the legitimacy of your beliefs. The semi-pluralistic take to the inturpretation of scripture is a Protestant belief that doesn't jive very well with Catholicism.

There is also the issue of the Reformation, that both sides tend to have rather strong views on.

 

[Silvio Dante]

I agree that there are far too many "hardliners" on both sides. In my parish Catholics, Anglicans and Presbeterians all get on great. We go to eachothers churches and share in worship.

Life's too short to be arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin etc.

Lets just all get along for Gods sake....

 

[Lotar]

The animosity on these forums, particularly the IDD, (atleast for me) don't translate over into real life. We go there specifically to debate such subjects, when we would normally not bring those subjects up, except perhaps around friends and family.

Also, I know there are probably a lot of people here who aren't used to being refuted. When I do debate or have theological discussions in the real world, people usually end up agreeing with me or end up in a brooding silence But I think just about everyone here has an IQ that is a few notches above normal.

 

[Col]

Thankyou for your objective replies so far. It is odd that we have the common ground of believing in one God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and everything associated with the Trinity. We all believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life..; (John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. We all carry out Jesus' wish to remember him when we eat and drink (communion). We all try to love one another as Christ loves us, and live worthy lives, and we are all in our own way trying to take his message to all people.

The sad part is that even though we agree on the core of the faith, (I mean Jesus' message was pretty simple as far as I can see) we have then spent 2000 years complicating it and argueing over the best ways to display our devotion, praise, worship and so forth. So we are not arguing over the inspired word of God, we are arguing over Man's interpretation of the correct way to be a Christian.

I know that Christianity has had a chequered past, but what do you expect when Man is running things. Notwithstanding this I find it pretty disappointing that some groups of Christians with argue with each other over ways to be a Christian when we are all ostensibly doing what we have been asked.

I don't believe it matters whether you are worshiping in an enourmous Church with exagerrated piety or you are worshiping in the open air under a tree in t-shirt and shorts (like early Chrisitans ...not with t-shirt and shorts of course). Surely what matters is that you are sincere of heart and purpose. I believe that God looks at what is inside our hearts not what outward display we perform. So I believe both forms are as good as each other if done sincerely and faithfully. Surely thats is what God asks. And for man to condem man for his sincere expression of faith, would surely come under "judging one another", and isn't that up to God not man.

Anyway just my humble opinion
Bless Ya
Col

 

[Lotar]

How many times have I heard this arguement?

See my comment about semi-pluralism. This veiw you are giving is distinctly Protestant, and is one of the reasons that heated debates result. Catholics and Orthodox believe that it is their responsibility to convert us and "bring us home" to the apostlic church.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Similarly many Protestants believe they need to convert Catholics to "get them saved".....as though Catholics have no faith in Christ....

 

[Lotar]

Very true. I guess I should have pointed that out as well.

 

[II Paradox II]

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

hmmm... a couple of thoughts:

1) Sometimes it's just a matter of too much water under the bridge. Eastern Orthodox, for instance, don't generally have overly friendly relations with Catholics either. They are, however, closer than most protestants to Catholicism doctrinally and culturally (though they have their differences too, mind you). That being said, it's just tough to put back together again what has been broken apart. Anger and schism have an inertia all their own which is much harder to stop than to start. It's even harder when that anger is reinforced communally as the animosity of the collective of individuals build on each other. Protestant/Catholic history has a tremendous inertia to get over and it has to be overcome both institutionally and in the hearts of everyone involved.

2) That being said, there are also tremendous doctrinal differences. Some of these are in areas which both communions have declared to be issues of salvation (i.e... the gospel, the authority of the church, sacramental theology). As such, you can't just unite on the core beliefs when neither group confessionally thinks the "core" we do agree on is normatively sufficient for salvation.

3) Our worldviews are sufficiently different that in some respects we can't put ourselves into each other's shoes enough to see each other as reasonable people. There are exceptions to this, of course, but in many discussions on the web that I have seen most people approach issues in a very partisan manner with little intention of giving someone with an opposing viewpoint a respectful hearing. Unfortunately our rhetoric tends to reinforce this with talk of the "impossibility" of sola scriptura or the "Catholics believe their works save them". Words and rhetoric form a shell in which our thoughts and attitudes reside and flow from one another in our cultural groups. As such, our use of hostile, unforgiving words reinforce our own prejudices and aid in our casual dismissal of, and eventual seperation from, those who we might in other circumstances treat with respect.

there are more reasons than just these, but this should give you something to think about...

ken

 

[Greeter]

If you don't want to make anyone hostile, then, before you say something this inflammatory, you should do your homework and cite your sources. (advise stopped here)

So you wouldn't mind it then if they had cited their sources?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

So you wouldn't mind it then if they had cited their sources?

It would at least show an attempt at scholarship; then, if the thread warranted it, it could be moved to IDD to allow Catholic Response.

If people in PRE want to talk about why they are not catholic, that's in the rules. You would get no interference from me. Catholics can't debate here, but I am not going to sit by and allow unsubstantiated claims go unchallenged.

 

[Blessed-one]

it's sad...... for the majority of protestants, they don't know much about Catholism to begin with, and some of the practices of the Catholics are so different that it's easy to just label them as being different rather than having the same belief as us (for example, confession to priests)

 

[Yitzchak]

My question is why is there so much animosity, verging on abject dislike, between catholics and non-catholics when the core of our belief is the same.

I am a protestant who has no animosity against Catholics. I would agree the core belief is very similar and grant that it is essentially the same.
I think the major disagreement though is on authority. It does tend to generate some animosity I suppose when people on both sides sincerely think they are right and are confronted with bully tactics from the other side saying God is for their church but against mine.
My opinion is that this is the same reason that there is sometimes animosity between other christian groups. When someone claims to no longer be just offering their opinion but rather to be speaking for God, it tends to back people in the corner. I have seen several threads on television evangelists also. I think it is similar reasons. It is difficult for both sides to be right when one side claims to be God's voice on issues. When there are major issues of salvation, power, money, doctrine, etc being talked about, then people tend to get emotional when backed into a corner concerning these things.
Take for example the television evangelist who says if you don't send your money in to him then God will curse you or at least withhold His blessings from you.And also says straight out that God himself told him to tell you that. It makes it more difficult to be neutral in such a case.
Protestants claim to be God's voice because they use the bible to support their claims. Catholics claim to be God's voice because of apostolic succession and Oral tradition. Television evangelists often claim to be God's voice because God himself is having a conversation with them right then.
My point is not who is right and who is wrong. I am simply pointing out that there are major issues which are put forth as God's truth and that accepting them or rejecting them carries either blessings or curses. It is difficult to not have animosity with all the "cursing"( the biblical definition , not foul language) going back and forth.
Bottomline. If we all followed the admonition to bless and not curse, I think that would help some. If we all humbled ourselves a lot more, that would help more.
Myself, I am protestant. I figure it is the Lord's business to correct Catholics if He needs to. If I were to devise a strategy to change the Catholic Church to a protestant way of thinking, then I would pray and fast for God to change The Pope and several high ranking Catholics with a "damascus road" type of experience. Hard to say though whether it really needs the changes I think it should have.
Based on my experiences within protestant churches, I think we as protestants have enough of our own problems without going after the Catholics. I actually wonder if we need to clean up our "own house" first before we are qualified to either help correct another church or to even be totally successful at the great commision.

 

[The Midge]

I am discouvering many great things that the Catholic tradition has to teach me as an Evangelical Protestant. There is so much good teaching from the likes of Brother Lawrence, Thomas a Kempis, Julian of Norwich, St John of the Cross and so on. I have begun to use their techniques of prayer and meditation and it has made a big impact on me.

I we are preparded to look beyond our traditions God will reward us richly for our efforts.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Much of the animousity between Catholics and Protestants stems from pride (on both sides), plain and simple. We all want to be "right." Let's look at an extremely simplified view from both sides:

Protestants believe the Church was corrupt and preached false doctrine and needed to be reformed.

Catholics believe that the reformers preached false doctrine and shattered the Body of Christ.

Is it any wonder people hold some animousity? Of course, its important to note that much of the animousity you see online isn't present in real life, where people can't hide behind a computer screen and have things to do other than engage their aquaintances in theological debates.

We should all, Catholic or Protestant, remember that divisions and bickering in the Body of Christ grieve our Lord greatly, and pray for unity and love among all Christians.