Why so much dissension and discord here?

[Chriliman]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

1 Peter 2:1-25
"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ..."

Colossians 4:5-6
"Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Are you a peace maker? I pray God would show us all how to be more peaceful and gracious towards one another.

God bless!

 

[timewerx]

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Matthew 10:34-35
Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…

 

[Soyeong]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

1 Peter 2:1-25
"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ..."

Colossians 4:5-6
"Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Are you a peace maker? I pray God would show us all how to be more peaceful and gracious towards one another.

God bless!

Discussing differences of opinion is not the same as dissension, discord, foolish controversies, quarrels, malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, or slander. I have not seen much of anything from that list in these forums. These discussions can help us to understand things better which can lead to peace. It's true that some differences of opinion are over trivial matters, but other matters are important to be on the same page about. For example, people in the early Church were hotly debating the intricacies of how to correctly obey God's law, but they weren't debating whether to obey God.

 

[civilwarbuff]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

You would need to be more specific, there are many debates and controversies here, especially on the Controversial Theology forum. There are people who use the debate rules governing CT to spread a brand of Christianity that upon first glance seem innocuous. But on further watching of the posts you see the teachings are out of line with Christian belief. The posts have included topics such as Messiah is not God but rather a created being that earned his way to Godhood; that once the Holy Spirit enters someone that person will be sinless from there on, that if you sin after that there is no forgiveness (I know, the statement contradicts itself). To let such things be taught without challenging them is not something any Christian should do if for no other reason than the posters own soul.....that is not unprofitable or worthless.

 

[Chriliman]

Matthew 10:34-35
Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…

I know there will not be peace on earth until Jesus comes again to set things straight. This does not however mean there shouldn't be peace among brothers and sister in Christ. Brothers and sisters in Christ will never be at peace with the world because we are not of the this world, but we should be at peace and of one mind and of one spirit in Christ.

 

[Chriliman]

You would need to be more specific, there are many debates and controversies here, especially on the Controversial Theology forum. There are people who use the debate rules governing CT to spread a brand of Christianity that upon first glance seem innocuous. But on further watching of the posts you see the teachings are out of line with Christian belief. The posts have included topics such as Messiah is not God but rather a created being that earned his way to Godhood; that once the Holy Spirit enters someone that person will be sinless from there on, that if you sin after that there is no forgiveness (I know, the statement contradicts itself). To let such things be taught without challenging them is not something any Christian should do if for no other reason than the posters own soul.....that is not unprofitable or worthless.

I agree we should shed light on false teaching and expose lies, but ultimately God does the saving not us. That's why He tells us to turn away from false teachers if they refuse to listen to what's correct, lest we be tempted to stoop to their level.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

God won't stop someone from condemning themselves, nor can we, but He'll be there if and when they repent and turn to Him with all their heart and then we can come along side them and lift them up as well. It's all about trusting Him and His will, not our own. I hope you agree

 

[Chriliman]

Discussing differences of opinion is not the same as dissension, discord, foolish controversies, quarrels, malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, or slander. I have not seen much of anything from that list in these forums. These discussions can help us to understand things better which can lead to peace. It's true that some differences of opinion are over trivial matters, but other matters are important to be on the same page about. For example, people in the early Church were hotly debating the intricacies of how to correctly obey God's law, but they weren't debating whether to obey God.

I agree, we should point to the truth and expose deception, but if the other side does not listen we are not to continue debating with them endlessly, we are to turn away and pray for them and pray that God's will be done. God will draw them to His truth if He so pleases.

I think often times we get caught up in the debate/discussion and insist that we are right and they are wrong, when in reality God is right and we should listen for His word of truth.

 

[supersoldier71]

Who here thinks that the tomb is empty and Jesus Christ, Firstborn from the grave, arose from it literally and bodily on the third day?

 

[Chriliman]

Who here thinks that the tomb is empty and Jesus Christ, Firstborn from the grave, arose from it literally and bodily on the third day?

I do! Amen!

 

[civilwarbuff]

Same here.....

 

[royal priest]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

1 Peter 2:1-25
"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ..."

Colossians 4:5-6
"Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Are you a peace maker? I pray God would show us all how to be more peaceful and gracious towards one another.

God bless!

Your sentiment is much appreciated. You are right that there are some debates not worth getting into because they cause more strife than anything else. 2 Timothy 2:23
However, there certainly is a place for lovingly challenging the one in error for the sake of their soul. 2 Timothy 2:24-26
and for the sake of defending what is right from error. Jude 1:3

 

[timewerx]

Brothers and sisters in Christ will never be at peace with the world because we are not of the this world, but we should be at peace and of one mind and of one spirit in Christ.

I don't think that is the case.

Geographically, Christians occupy the largest territory compared to other religious groups. This includes, the Americas, Europe, Russia, most of South East Asia, Asia-Pacific and AU-NZ.

Population-wise, Christians also form the largest population of any religious groups, close to 3 billion, with Muslims being a distant second place at around 1.5 billion....

The life of a Christian in any of the developed, predominantly Christian nations such as the North Americas, Europe, and AU-NZ are generally pleasant. To tell that they are at war with the world, that is either a joke or a lie. They love their lives, and if they say, they don't, they are lying for the most part or their hearts have deceived them so much, they don't know anymore between a lie and the truth.

Jesus Christ said, only few will find the way which leads to life. 3 Billion, that's a lot. So NO, I don't think all those 3 billion I could call brothers or sisters.

 

[Chriliman]

I don't think that is the case.

Geographically, Christians occupy the largest territory compared to other religious groups. This includes, the Americas, Europe, Russia, most of South East Asia, Asia-Pacific and AU-NZ.

Population-wise, Christians also form the largest population of any religious groups, close to 3 billion, with Muslims being a distant second place at around 1.5 billion....

The life of a Christian in any of the developed, predominantly Christian nations such as the North Americas, Europe, and AU-NZ are generally pleasant. To tell that they are at war with the world, that is either a joke or a lie. They love their lives, and if they say, they don't, they are lying for the most part or their hearts have deceived them so much, they don't know anymore between a lie and the truth.

Jesus Christ said, only few will find the way which leads to life. 3 Billion, that's a lot. So NO, I don't think all those 3 billion I could call brothers or sisters.

Thanks for your thoughts. I find it interesting to think about what "few" vs "many" actually amounts to. The amount of people to ever live on this earth is estimated to be around 1 hundred billion, so a few could be 144,000+ or 2.4 billion+ , who knows?

It's not our place to speculate, but rather trust that God will be the righteous judge and not let a single one of His children perish.

God bless!

 

[Extraneous]

dissension, discord, foolish controversies, quarrels, malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, or slander. I have not seen much of anything from that list in these forums.

You must be new.

 

[Extraneous]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

1 Peter 2:1-25
"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ..."

Colossians 4:5-6
"Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Are you a peace maker? I pray God would show us all how to be more peaceful and gracious towards one another.

God bless!

Simplicity is key.

What is there to debate? Paul said that debate means we have heresies among us.

James said that pure religion is to take care of widows/orphans, and to keep ourselves spotless. Debate is not spotless. Debate is a work of flesh.

We have heresy because people add more to religion than we are taught. They teach more than taking care of widows/orphans and keeping ourselves clean. How complicated is that? Jesus promised that he himself would teach us. How do we hear the Lord speaking over so much debate?

 

[timewerx]

Thanks for your thoughts. I find it interesting to think about what "few" vs "many" actually amounts to. The amount of people to ever live on this earth is estimated to be around 1 hundred billion, so a few could be 144,000+ or 2.4 billion+ , who knows?

The total number of Christians who **ever lived** on Earth will be much much bigger than the 3 billion count since you brought up the case of counting every person who ever lived on Earth.

Of course, on that merit, we must also include the Jews for very obvious reasons....

Also the concern of Christ will be on the judgement day and that is right around our times.... And on the judgement day, there will be many who will claim to be Christians.

On both merits, either "ever lived" or those just alive today, we are still not few.

But if I would be frank, I don't know for sure.... But I hope no one is gambling their soul for an assumption that would seem more favorable to our worldly ways.

 

[mikedsjr]

God's word teaches us to avoid endless debating and controversies because it is unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

1 Peter 2:1-25
"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ..."

Colossians 4:5-6
"Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

Are you a peace maker? I pray God would show us all how to be more peaceful and gracious towards one another.

God bless!

This would be the controversial forum and much of the controversies challenge orthodox Christian beliefs.

Otoh, this is the Internet. It isn't church. The Internet absolutely fosters and keeps false Christian theology and heresies alive. This is a place for people to learn and challenge each other because the people here like that. The challenge here is to play the debate game civilly and to know the difference between what is attacking some and what is attacking a belief separate from the individual. Many don't know the difference.

Now I must ask was Stephen's speech classified as peacemaking? Yes it was, because it pointed people to the peacemaker. What is not peaceful is false theology. It hates peace. There is not peace in the controversial forum because those who are spreading controversial messages hate peace. Blame it on them for going against orthodox Christianity.

 

[Chriliman]

This would be the controversial forum and much of the controversies challenge orthodox Christian beliefs.

Otoh, this is the Internet. It isn't church. The Internet absolutely fosters and keeps false Christian theology and heresies alive. This is a place for people to learn and challenge each other because the people here like that. The challenge here is to play the debate game civilly and to know the difference between what is attacking some and what is attacking a belief separate from the individual. Many don't know the difference.

Now I must ask was Stephen's speech classified as peacemaking? Yes it was, because it pointed people to the peacemaker. What is not peaceful is false theology. It hates peace. There is not peace in the controversial forum because those who are spreading controversial messages hate peace. Blame it on them for going against orthodox Christianity.

Agreed, which is why we are told to turn away from people who hate peace because they only sow discord and turn people away from the faith.

 

[royal priest]

Simplicity is key.

What is there to debate? Paul said that debate means we have heresies among us.

James said that pure religion is to take care of widows/orphans, and to keep ourselves spotless. Debate is not spotless. Debate is a work of flesh.

We have heresy because people add more to religion than we are taught. They teach more than taking care of widows/orphans and keeping ourselves clean. How complicated is that? Jesus promised that he himself would teach us. How do we hear the Lord speaking over so much debate?

There certainly is a sense in which defending the truth can be a work of the flesh. And so, I wish keeping oneself spotless were that simple. If church history teaches us anything, it's the fact that heresies make the work of declaring the Gospel very complicated and arduous. Yes, to your point, there are certain points during that history which are very ugly and very, very dirty. However, what made it so was not the work of defending the truth in itself, so much as the manner in which it was carried out. Religious persecution rose out of political agendas. For instance, by the third century, the early church did not heed Jesus' words in John 18:36 when they imposed tax levies upon and imprisoned those who would not adhere to christianity. The disciple of Jesus must always keep in the forefront of his mind that a holy bearing witness to the truth requires reverence, meekness, and fear. 1 Peter 3:15


Defending the truth, when properly applied, is anything but a work of the flesh.
2 Corinthians 10:3-4
It is an application of the Lord, correcting and rebuking through His servants.
2 Corinthians 10:5

 

[Soyeong]

You must be new.

I have about 4x as many posts as you do and I don't post in the spam sections. I'm not saying that haven't seen some of the things from the list, but they have been the exception rather than the rule, and it is certainly far less than the last forum I was at.