Why should I believe in God?

[razeontherock]

So on to the big question: why believe in God?

Because you've got the common sense to open your eyes and see the world you live in took power to come into being, and that's all the term "God" refers to. Some insist on spelling it G-d, indicating we don't really know so much about "it." Not a bad move, IMHO. If you can remove all the man-made dogma and think about the subject on that basic level, it'll take more seeking before you come to the Bible (or anything else) as His word; but your convictions will mean something!

In a different thread somebody posted they wish they could erase everything they've heard and read the Bible w/o all those pre-conceived notions. That's exactly what I had to do before I found Peace on any of this.

It seems the age-old debate between believers and atheists boils down to accepting or refuting God's existence, and since neither side is WILLING to do either,

Hmmm, if you've never met a Christian who is willing to accept God's existence, that would be confusing. I think the real problem is we humans have a hard time accepting we can't understand everything fully, so closure kicks in and people just make stuff up.

 

[drich0150]

Aren't you setting up a false dichotomy. Worship either God or yourself. You don't think it's possible to be a non believer without 'worshiping' yourself? You're very right about the proof part.

If we are call to worship God and do not, then are we not worshiping the ideals devoted to one's self? Can this not be described as self worship? That is, your personal brand of righteousness supersedes the righteousness of God in that you do not worship Him in favor of doing what you think is right.

How is this dichotomy false? If you are told to do one thing and yet you do as you will, are you not guilty of practicing your own personal doctrines?
..And I know I am right about proof on both sides, this is why I posted that fact.

If a god were empirically proved, it would be impossible to not believe in god's existence anymore. But one could still choose not to worship him.

Which was my point. Belief and worship are two very different things. Unfortunately due to the efforts of pop christianity they are sold as two of the same items. Because of this belief, why would God reveal Himself in a manner that strengthens belief and yet weakens faith? if it is Faith that He seeks?

So you have to presuppose the existence of a transcendental, spiritual being that is undetectable by our five senses in order to believe that it exists. That's very circular.

So You have presupposed the Non-existence of a transcendental, Spiritual Being, Just because that Being just happens to be outside of the range of your 5 senses.. That's a bit closed minded don't you think? In other words if you or those who you look up to, can not readily explain something with their current level of understanding then by your definition it can't exist???

I thought "we" were supposed to be the closed minded ones.

“Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”. Most non believers would judge this (faith without justified proof) to be a character flaw. Because if you operated like that in real life, you'd have to believe every religion ever created, every crackpot conspiracy theory and every Nigerian 419 scam.

As your statement can attest "Most non-believers" misread/misinterpret Scripture in order to use it in a predetermined line of reasoning. For example the scripture you mis used simply says: Blessed is the person who believes that has not witnessed these events.. It says nothing about the believer never having "proof." You see a lack of "proof' in this scripture because you need a lack of proof in our faith to make your predetermined argument about our faith work.

Proof is available for all who seek it. It's just not scientifically reproducible proof. God will not be manipulated nor placed in a set of circumstances and made to perform a certain way. If we could "prove" God's existence or manipulate God with in the confines of Finite science, then God would no longer be big enough to be God.

The Proof God can make available will be something close to your heart, and will (for you) be as absolute as you need it to be. Once you have obtained proof there will be no doubt.

 

[98cwitr]

It's an interesting story 96cwitr. I also read the one in your sig. Personal experience is a good reason for believing. But relating to the OP (Why should I believe) it's not compelling to anyone else because it is by definition a personal experience. And therefor to anyone else it's only hearsay.

I wouldn't believe in God if it wasn't for my own experience...maybe God with do the same for the OP. That's the only way for an atheist to believe imho.

I also believe that the thread title is quite rhetorical in the mind of an atheist...there's NO physical evidence that God exists that isn't heavily refuted.

 

[ebia]

This is Exploring Christianity. Christian posters should confine themselves to addressing the original poster, not each other.

 

[98cwitr]

Hey OP, do you think ebia should make that last post his sig?

 

[DArceri]

I am nineteen year old college student. Since coming to college, I have never heard more debates on religion in my entire life. Frankly, I am fed up with hearing it all. It seems the age-old debate between believers and atheists boils down to accepting or refuting God's existence, and since neither side is WILLING to do either, arguing seems utterly pointless. I do however find it amusing that atheists spend so much time trying to disprove God that it seems to almost betray their own ideologies. Why would you have to disprove something you don't even believe in? Why is it necessary to discredit religion when religion is supposedly the farthest thing from ones mind? On the other side of the coin, "Christians" create many atheists. The man who spends his Saturday nights getting trashed in a bar with his friends and then attends Sunday a service the following morning is a walking contradiction, balancing two lives like the ultimate form of bigamy. Plenty of evil has been done in the name of God and Christian bigotry has turned more people off than Rosie O'Donnell. So why should I, or should I not believe in God?

Deep down in your inner most being, you probably have thoughts like, "Who am I?...Why do I exist?...What is my purpose? If God does exist, wouldn't He reveal Himself some way, somehow???? That being said, we need to ask ourselves, has God ever intervened in history to reveal Himself to us. Has there ever been a time in all of history that an individual ever claimed to be God? If so, what are the evidences?...... Well, let's see. The Old Testiment is filled with fullfilled prophecies of the coming of a Messiah. Also, the same apostles who were scared, cowardly men during His crucifiction, were the same apostles who suffered painful martyrs deaths!!!! ONE MUST ASK, WHAT CHANGED???....WHY?????? What could have possibly happened only JUST THREE DAYS later that would change their skeptism into TOTAL BELIEF. What dramatic event would motivate these cowardly skeptics 3 days later ??????????? Well, lets see. Could it have been the bodily ressurection of Jesus and His appearance not only to them, but to 500 OTHERS during His 40 days before His ascention!!! Could 500 witnesses be why the Jews could not put this claim to rest? Listen, it's up to you. You have the facts. What is keeping you from making a decision about Christ? Is it because you don't want to change your lifestyle? Deep down, is it because there is a cost to becoming a follower of Christ? What is the barrier towards belief the God of the Universe God could send His Son into the world to reveal Himself ????

 

[byronlewis]

Whenever you look around, what normally you see. You see a stunning sunshine, green grass, a magnificent moon at night, the birds singing to wake up, the fragrance of flowers, beautiful oceans and lakes, any of the either or all. These are probably a few reasons you should believe in God. The very fact that you are able to ask this question, should be a proof enough.

 

[Orraez]

I am nineteen year old college student. Since coming to college, I have never heard more debates on religion in my entire life. Frankly, I am fed up with hearing it all. It seems the age-old debate between believers and atheists boils down to accepting or refuting God's existence, and since neither side is WILLING to do either, arguing seems utterly pointless. I do however find it amusing that atheists spend so much time trying to disprove God that it seems to almost betray their own ideologies. Why would you have to disprove something you don't even believe in? Why is it necessary to discredit religion when religion is supposedly the farthest thing from ones mind? On the other side of the coin, "Christians" create many atheists. The man who spends his Saturday nights getting trashed in a bar with his friends and then attends Sunday a service the following morning is a walking contradiction, balancing two lives like the ultimate form of bigamy. Plenty of evil has been done in the name of God and Christian bigotry has turned more people off than Rosie O'Donnell. So why should I, or should I not believe in God?

The short answer to "why believe or for that matter not believe" is because of the consequences. If you take the traditional Christian position then if you don't believe or certainly refuse to believe then the consequences are painful and eternal. The anti theist (there are atheists who do not debate and are not bothered by people being theists), so I say anti theist sees religion as causing harm. They point to heresy hunts etc.

So the answer to your question is consequences makes the question important. If there were no consequences then the debate would be unimportant and a waste of time. It would be as important as to whether the Loch Ness monster exists or not. The belief or disbelief causes no harm one way or the other. I am an atheist if you want to know where I am coming from.

 

[andreha]

Hi Gr263

No man can believe in God by himself. It is impossible. The Bible says that no man can call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit:

(1Co 12:3)

So it is my desire for you to be clear about this; that no one is able to say by the Spirit of God that Jesus is cursed; and no one is able to say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

If you want truth, humbly invite the Holy Spirit to lead you in truth - and He will.

I am nineteen year old college student. Since coming to college, I have never heard more debates on religion in my entire life. Frankly, I am fed up with hearing it all. It seems the age-old debate between believers and atheists boils down to accepting or refuting God's existence, and since neither side is WILLING to do either, arguing seems utterly pointless. I do however find it amusing that atheists spend so much time trying to disprove God that it seems to almost betray their own ideologies. Why would you have to disprove something you don't even believe in? Why is it necessary to discredit religion when religion is supposedly the farthest thing from ones mind? On the other side of the coin, "Christians" create many atheists. The man who spends his Saturday nights getting trashed in a bar with his friends and then attends Sunday a service the following morning is a walking contradiction, balancing two lives like the ultimate form of bigamy. Plenty of evil has been done in the name of God and Christian bigotry has turned more people off than Rosie O'Donnell. So why should I, or should I not believe in God?

 

[Dionysiou]

You want answers mate? Set aside time to "search for God" just call on God to come to you and be persistant with it. The more effort you put in for God then the more youll get back. Dont be half hearted about it, give God a real chance to answer your question. "Draw near to God and He'll draw near to you". Forget the rest and give Him your best.

 

[GR263]

There are many good arguments and ideas floating around this thread. Before I address them, I'd like to clarify a few things. Before starting college, my parents MADE me go to church. I felt extremely offended that I had no choice in the matter of what I believed. My parents TOLD me that I believed in God, not asked me if I WANTED to believe in him. I don't deny that he exists, I believe he does. I see the beauty of God in everything. BUT. How much of the bible has been changed? Or left out? Or manipulated? How am I supposed to answer the question "What made God?" Because if you think about it..... Believers believe that God created the universe out of nothing, that it just came into existence. Who are we to say that it isn't preposterous to assume that God is and has always been there. The idea that the universe was created is just as far fetched as saying God has existed forever. Who is to say that the earth was created in 7 (24 hour) days.... Time is relative. Even planets have their own "day" that differs in time. The 7 days of creation could allude to 7000 years of the laws of nature (created by God) hard at work. I read somewhere that a day with the Lord is a thousand years. Thanks for all the support. It helps more than you all know.

Side note: Curious to know what an atheist would be searching for on a Christian forum. Answers maybe? ;P

 

[ebia]

There are many good arguments and ideas floating around this thread. Before I address them, I'd like to clarify a few things. Before starting college, my parents MADE me go to church. I felt extremely offended that I had no choice in the matter of what I believed. My parents TOLD me that I believed in God, not asked me if I WANTED to believe in him. I don't deny that he exists, I believe he does. I see the beauty of God in everything.

:nods:

BUT. How much of the bible has been changed?

Remarkably little, so far as we can tell. Even if the bible is no more than ancient literature it's remarkably well preserved ancient literature compared to everything else.

How am I supposed to answer the question "What made God?" Because if you think about it..... Believers believe that God created the universe out of nothing, that it just came into existence. Who are we to say that it isn't preposterous to assume that God is and has always been there. The idea that the universe was created is just as far fetched as saying God has existed forever.

If you want all your questions answered before you commit you'll never commit, there will always be fresh questions to wrestle with. Which is a better initial question to wrestle with: "who made God?" or "what is God doing to put the world right and how do I get in on that?"

Who is to say that the earth was created in 7 (24 hour) days....

It wasn't. Only a small percentage of Christians (on a global scale) read Genesis 1 in that kind of literal way.

 

[Mandy_S]

There are many good arguments and ideas floating around this thread. Before I address them, I'd like to clarify a few things. Before starting college, my parents MADE me go to church. I felt extremely offended that I had no choice in the matter of what I believed. My parents TOLD me that I believed in God, not asked me if I WANTED to believe in him. I don't deny that he exists, I believe he does. I see the beauty of God in everything. BUT. How much of the bible has been changed? Or left out? Or manipulated? How am I supposed to answer the question "What made God?" Because if you think about it..... Believers believe that God created the universe out of nothing, that it just came into existence. Who are we to say that it isn't preposterous to assume that God is and has always been there. The idea that the universe was created is just as far fetched as saying God has existed forever. Who is to say that the earth was created in 7 (24 hour) days.... Time is relative. Even planets have their own "day" that differs in time. The 7 days of creation could allude to 7000 years of the laws of nature (created by God) hard at work. I read somewhere that a day with the Lord is a thousand years. Thanks for all the support. It helps more than you all know.

Side note: Curious to know what an atheist would be searching for on a Christian forum. Answers maybe? ;P

The question of who made God can be answered by simply looking at space and asking, "Does space have an end?" Obviously, it doesn’t. If there is a brick wall with "The End" written on it, the question arises, "What is behind the brick wall?" Strain the mind though it may, we have to believe (have faith) that space has no beginning and no end. The same applies with God. He has no beginning and no end. He is eternal.

The Bible also informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called "eternity." God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created. He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.

Because we live in the dimension of time, logic and reason demand that everything must have a beginning and an end. We can understand the concept of God’s eternal nature the same way we understand the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith. We simply have to believe they are so, even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrums.

 

[Digit]

I do however find it amusing that atheists spend so much time trying to disprove God that it seems to almost betray their own ideologies. Why would you have to disprove something you don't even believe in?

Because they wish to show that religion is harmful and has a negative impact on society, in conjunction with it not actually bringing anything to the table in terms of positive gain or information.

On the other side of the coin, "Christians" create many atheists. The man who spends his Saturday nights getting trashed in a bar with his friends and then attends Sunday a service the following morning is a walking contradiction, balancing two lives like the ultimate form of bigamy.

Well... yes, but I don't see why that's relevant.

Plenty of evil has been done in the name of God and Christian bigotry has turned more people off than Rosie O'Donnell.

That is a non-sequitur, just because someone has done something negative in the name of God, does not logically infer than God or religion is also negative. A guy who ended up raping and killing a woman ate a loaf of bread that morning - quick, ban the sale of bread. Etc.

So why should I, or should I not believe in God?

Well, you shouldn't believe in God based on an argument, because really it's just a matter of time then until someone else argues you back out of belief into unbelief and round that merry-go-round goes.

When I talk about belief and unbelief I think of truth and untruth as directly analogous. I personally believe in God because I find God to be real, and I find Christianity and it's claims believable. For me, they represent the truth and the truest reality. I would happily and confidently say that anyone who pursues truth with an open mind and heart will find God.

 

[Digit]

There are many good arguments and ideas floating around this thread. Before I address them, I'd like to clarify a few things. Before starting college, my parents MADE me go to church. I felt extremely offended that I had no choice in the matter of what I believed. My parents TOLD me that I believed in God, not asked me if I WANTED to believe in him.

At the end of the day I think you will find that want or not want, play very little part in our beliefs. They will shield you from the truth for only so long, and I'm not even talking about religion at this point, or God. As to what your parents made you do, well, that is how things work. When you are young, and a child under the guardianship of your parents, they have legal rights and parental rights which they can and do enforce. Sometimes parents make good decisions, other times not.

How much of the bible has been changed? Or left out? Or manipulated?

This comes down to textual criticism and the Bible has a fairly extensive foundation of support for it's manuscripts. Historical accuracy is a science unto itself and it's very interesting, at least I thought so, reading about it. There are a lot of good sites with information on it, but if you are interested I would certainly suggest Reasonable Faith, which is Dr William Lane Craig's site and it has a host of information on it.

How am I supposed to answer the question "What made God?" Because if you think about it..... Believers believe that God created the universe out of nothing, that it just came into existence. Who are we to say that it isn't preposterous to assume that God is and has always been there.

Well no one / nothing created God, if we believe what is written in the Bible. The word for God, translates to 'uncreated one' or something similar. This is further supported by the mention of God and time in the Bible. Only things within the realm of time can be created, because creation takes place -at- a point in time, God is not within time as we are, and as such, He is uncreated and eternal.

The idea that the universe was created is just as far fetched as saying God has existed forever.

No. The universe is temporal, we can trace it's lifespan back to a point in time. Whilst we cannot do that scientifically with God, we know what we are told of His character and being, which is that He is timeless, and as such we cannot trace His existence to a period of time.

Who is to say that the earth was created in 7 (24 hour) days....

Well typically fundamental Biblical literalists do. ie Those who read Genesis as a eye-witness historical narrative of the literal creation days.

Time is relative. Even planets have their own "day" that differs in time. The 7 days of creation could allude to 7000 years of the laws of nature (created by God) hard at work.

This is a misconception. You cannot just read Genesis and then impose your own understanding of the passages on it. It comes back to what I was saying earlier about textual criticism and in the case of Genesis, linguistics - which is the study of language. You can tell a lot from the use of subjects and verbs within a text, and how they are used throughout the text in similar areas, was the writer being allegorical or metaphorical or literal or historical etc. It's a fairly extensive subject, and I don't blame someone for not really having the heart or time to investigate it as I find it pretty boring, at the least the process, I tend to skip to the results or like many, I find someone who I feel confident in taking their word for it, and go with whatever they say - where they have studied Biblical Greek and Hebrew for 20 years or so and are experts in their field.

Curious to know what an atheist would be searching for on a Christian forum. Answers maybe? ;P

Well some come for entertainment. I actually stopped coming here because it got flooded with trolls a while back when the rules were slightly slacker, but now it's been cleaned up a lot more and we generally get genuine seekers or non-theists genuinely interested in learning something or finding out about a competing view.

 

[iwannarock]

if you don't you'll go to hell.

nuff said.