Why MICRO but not MACRO?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Please do tell.

Not really because I do want to try and keep this thread on topic as best I can. But I'll just say that, when there's actual evidence for something natural, i.e. evolution, then faith does not come into it.

 

[Laodicean60]

Not really because I do want to try and keep this thread on topic as best I can. But I'll just say that, when there's actual evidence for something natural, i.e. evolution, then faith does not come into it.

What is the actual evidence you speak of?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What is the actual evidence you speak of?

I'm not getting drawn into this, because it'll take the thread off-topic. If you want that question answered, you can look it up online or start a thread of your own about it.

 

[Yttrium]

Please do tell.

There's no need to take any theory on faith. You can just look at the evidence and conclude that the theory is the most likely of possible explanations that we've come up with so far. Faith is belief without evidence. Theories are formed to fit the evidence, and no belief in them is necessary.

 

[Laodicean60]

I'm not getting drawn into this, because it'll take the thread off-topic. If you want that question answered, you can look it up online or start a thread of your own about it.

Ok lol. You started it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ok lol. You started it.

Now you're being a troll.

 

[Laodicean60]

Now you're being a troll.

No, I'm not. You are communicating with me. As I told Hans I was going to bow out.

That says more about you than anything else.

You commented about me and I asked for clarification

Not really because I do want to try and keep this thread on topic as best I can. But I'll just say that, when there's actual evidence for something natural, i.e. evolution, then faith does not come into it.

You and now Yttrium argued my opinion with evidence and I asked for it. Please give it to me so I can inform myself. From all the reading I did yesterday trying to give you Micro/ Macro, scientists are undecided. So PM me your evidence and I'll look into it. Now if you please let me leave.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You and now Yttrium argued my opinion with evidence and I asked for it. Please give it to me so I can inform myself. From all the reading I did yesterday trying to give you Micro/ Macro, scientists are undecided. So PM me your evidence and I'll look into it. Now if you please let me leave.

This will be my last response so we can leave it be, but I do fail to believe that you do not know of the evidence for evolution. I won't PM you it because as an adult I refuse to believe that you cannot find the evidence for evolution yourself, especially with today's internet. A simple search of "evidence for evolution" would suffice. The mechanics might be debated, but the evidence of evolution itself is not debated among scientists.

As I said, last response. I'll let you be.

 

[Larniavc]

What is the actual evidence you speak of?

Matching Endogenous Retrovirus DNA in humans and chimps.

Boom. Evidence for TOE.

 

[Roderick Spode]

But you should still have evidence of the line between micro and Marco, right? That is what I am asking for. You have yet to provide it.

In respect to the wishes of the O.P.

Me asking for the dividing line between micro and macro evolution has nothing to do with God, the Bible or Christianity. I am asking, if it is possible for someone to answer it, what the scientific dividing line between the two is.

I can't give an answer without getting into the subject of God.

I don't want to turn this into what someone believes, because that is outside this discussion. For that matter, there are Christians that accept evolution and the evidence for it and still believe. I am trying to get you to provide evidence for your claim because in the end, that is how we get to the truth. We find evidence, we see if it fits in our understanding of things and if it doesn't we come to a new understanding.

Yes, I understand there are Christians that accept evolution. I personally doubt any of them will give an answer that will satisfy what the O.P. is seeking.....but I could be wrong.

From a purely scientific standpoint, I don't think there is a dividing line between micro and macro evolution.

You are the one that claims there is a limit between micro and macro, and if there is there must be evidence for it. What is your evidence?

The reason I posted here in the first place, is basically because I find the topic interesting. I knew that I may not get very far, but sometimes one has the feel those things out.

It might be wise to keep in mind, this is a Christian forum. So you shouldn't be too surprised when someone comes along and brings God into the subject. I think trying to separate science from God in a subject where the primary focus is on God will probably be pretty difficult.

So again, I'm going to have to respect the wishes of the O.P.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It might be wise to keep in mind, this is a Christian forum. So you shouldn't be too surprised when someone comes along and brings God into the subject. I think trying to separate science from God in a subject where the primary focus is on God will probably be pretty difficult.

Except that we are in the part of the forum that is open to non-believers and also the place for the discussion of science. The focus of the website is god, yes, but the topic of the sub-forum is science.

But I will thank you for respecting what I said. Many do not always respect an OP's wish.

 

[Laodicean60]

I found this paper

Matching Endogenous Retrovirus DNA in humans and chimps.

Boom. Evidence for TOE.

I found this paper about chimp's retrovirus. Quoted
"A Pan troglodytes endogenous retrovirus (PtERV) is a type of abundant long terminal repeat (LTR) retrotransposons in vertebrate genomes. PtERVs are categorized into three major classes (class I: the gammaretroviruses, class II: the betaretroviruses, and class III: the spumaviruses). They are further divided into 42 families including two chimpanzee-specific ERV families [1]. While the majority of PtERV families are shared in human and Asian ape genomes, CERV1 and CERV2 families have been shown only in the African great ape and Old World monkey genomes. It was suggested that the two families originated from an ancient viral infection within a germ-line cell after the divergence of chimpanzees and humans [2]."

I clicked on the footnote [2]
"Our data are consistent with a retroviral infection that bombarded the genomes of chimpanzees and gorillas independently and concurrently, 3–4 million years ago. We speculate on the potential impact of such recent events on the evolution of humans and great apes."

Chimpanzee-Specific Endogenous Retrovirus Generates Genomic Variations in the Chimpanzee Genome

Endogenous retroviruses (ERVs), eukaryotic transposable elements, exist as proviruses in vertebrates including primates and contribute to genomic changes during the evolution of their host genomes. Many studies about ERVs have focused on the elements ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The "Boom" makes me want to look it up. I don't care to argue over something I don't believe since I was taught in middle school. Just like I won't "Boom" you with God. The day science tells me it's a fact then I'll stand corrected.

Since I've been reading about health in the last 2 years I found that humans share DNA with other mammals because of all the studies on health use mice which used to be on monkeys. Approx 97% Chimp, 85% mice, 90% Cats (maybe we should use cats to test on), 80% cows, 60% in a banana and fruit flies imagine that.

And for

Warden_of_the_Storm Evolution isn't something I feel worth looking up. Never believed it then or now. It wasn't a thing until this forum. Because the conversations I had in the past never revolved around evolution. I assume, just like the conversation about God with nonbelievers is not a thing in their daily circles.​

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

@Warden_of_the_Storm Evolution isn't something I feel worth looking up. Never believed it then or now. It wasn't a thing until this forum. Because the conversations I had in the past never revolved around evolution. I assume, just like the conversation about God with nonbelievers is not a thing in their daily circles

Then what's the point in talking to you about the evidence for it if you it's not worth looking up?

 

[Roderick Spode]

Except that we are in the part of the forum that is open to non-believers and also the place for the discussion of science. The focus of the website is god, yes, but the topic of the sub-forum is science.

But I will thank you for respecting what I said. Many do not always respect an OP's wish.

I understand. This the right part of the forum for this topic. What I meant was, the subject itself of macro and micro evolution, in my opinion involves God as part of it's focus.

The topic of your thread, and the direction you want it to go is completely just.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I understand. This the right part of the forum for this topic. What I meant was, the subject itself of macro and micro evolution, in my opinion involves God as part of it's focus.

The topic of your thread, and the direction you want it to go is completely just.

No, that I understood, and I would not fault you for it. It's an answer for sure, but it's not really a definitive answer, yet you're not at any fault to give it as an answer.

 

[Laodicean60]

Then what's the point in talking to you about the evidence for it if you it's not worth looking up?

None, I was just replying to your questions and comments but when you said you had the evidence I had to look it up and found It's still theory, speculation, and hypothesis.

And isn't this off-topic like you mentioned yesterday? Get back to the OP about micro/ macro thing. I gave you my opinion but it's you trying to force-feed me with it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

None, I was just replying to your questions and comments but when you said you had the evidence I had to look it up and found It's still theory, speculation, and hypothesis.

And isn't this off-topic like you mentioned yesterday? Get back to the OP about micro/ macro thing. I gave you my opinion but it's you trying to force-feed me with it.

To be fair, I did preface that as 'as best I can'.

I also don't think I will be getting the answers that I want since it seems the people who do want to say won't say if its said directly. So best just let the thread lie.

 

[Paulos23]

It might be wise to keep in mind, this is a Christian forum. So you shouldn't be too surprised when someone comes along and brings God into the subject. I think trying to separate science from God in a subject where the primary focus is on God will probably be pretty difficult.

I am just going to comment on this paragraph once and let it drop since it is off-topic.

I know where I am posting, and I post here to get Christian views. However, the value of this site is degrading as the more nuanced views are being overwhelmed by those who shout the loudest.

I agree that for those who believe in God, this is a tough subject to separate from their belief, but if you are going to argue against something science-based, evidence is key to determining reality. You can state your opinion, but in the end, it is just that, opinion. Unless you bring some evidence, it can be dismissed just as easily as you make it.

Also, pro-tip, check someone's join date before talking about what they should keep in mind.

 

[Paulos23]

Yes, I understand there are Christians that accept evolution. I personally doubt any of them will give an answer that will satisfy what the O.P. is seeking.....but I could be wrong.

Maybe, but that is one of the reasons the OP is asking, to find those arguments that they don't know.

From a purely scientific standpoint, I don't think there is a dividing line between micro and macro evolution.

I agree with this, and I am glad you acknowledge this point on the other side. That is why I ask for evidence for your claim that there is a line. If it is only because you believe God did it, then we are done and there is not much else to talk about. If you have evidence, we can as least go over it.

 

[Roderick Spode]

Also, pro-tip, check someone's join date before talking about what they should keep in mind.

And I'm sure you're a highly respected member.