Why is Western Europe atheist?

Jane_the_Bane

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Europe is not only more atheist, its believers are also considerably more liberal than their American brethren. What passes as "mainstream" in the USA would qualify as hardcore fundamentalism over here.

That said, fundamentalism *has* gained in popularity, since American evangelicalism is attempting to re-colonize the Old Country and funnelling HUGE amounts of money into missionary efforts. In Germany, their efforts have proven exceptionally effective among Russian-Germans, whereas most "born-and-bred" Germans reserve a healthy skepticism towards radical proselytizing world views and their grand narratives ever since WW2.

Also, since mainstream Christianity continues to dwindle, the fundamentalists become a larger portion within the body of the Churches.
 
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Mediaeval

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...influence of Socialism in Western Europe...

This is a major factor. Europeans are no less religious than Americans, but they are adherents of the religion of statism. If/when/as Caesar goes bankrupt, more people will rediscover God.
 
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fat wee robin

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This is a major factor. Europeans are no less religious than Americans, but they are adherents of the religion of statism. If/when/as Caesar goes bankrupt, more people will rediscover God.
Yes ,think that you are right .France being a very old country which has passed through
many revolutions and wars without adhering too tightly or too long to anyone of them
which doen'nt pass the 'test ' of plain common sense .
 
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Cearbhall

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I took a course in Sociology in college. It was the most boring thing I ever had to endure. Never once did they consider that humans are just down right wicked.
I would hope that a college course would stick to things for which there is evidence.
 
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TheNorwegian

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I am not sure what you mean when you say "statism" is a religion. Most people in Western Europe certainly do not worship their governments! Although many profit from the welfare state, of course. But materialism and wealth is of course (often) in opposition to - or a hindrance to - Christian religion
 
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fat wee robin

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Yes ,think that you are right .France being a very old country which has passed through
many revolutions and wars without adhering too tightly or too long to anyone of them
which doen'nt pass the 'test ' of plain common sense .
And your right about statism ,people are beginning to notice that those who believe are happier and more creative .Without being prompted they have started to be less 'cynical' about religion as they see that atheism brings nothing and is parasitic on a society of belief . They would not accept the aggressivite of certain American evangelical types .
 
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smaneck

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“It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion--its message becomes meaningless.”
― Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism

Good quote. I would say that religion declines in the first place in Europe as a result of the Wars of Religion. They are followed by the Enlightenment which basically said "a curse on both your houses" [protestant and Catholic.] Of course, Enlightenment thinkers were mostly deists not atheists, but as secularism takes root religion becomes more and more irrelevant.

I like Herschel, btw.
 
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smaneck

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Somewhat related is this link from Pew Forum. In the US from 2007 to 2014, most of the reduction in Christian population has occurred in the Mainline Protestant and Catholic categories. The Evangelical Protestant category has mostly resisted these losses. This makes sense to me, because Fundamentalism was designed to resist modernity. In the future, the US population might be 75% none and 25% Evangelical with no other forms of Christianity of significance.

You left out the non-Christian religions which are coming to play a larger and larger role in the religious life of our nation. The number of Muslims and Hindus has almost doubled in the last seven years and (surprisingly) even the number of Jews has increased. I think the decrease in the number of Catholics can be explained because large numbers of Hispanics returned to Latin America due to the recession, and yes, Obama's policies on immigration which resulted in the deportation more immigrants than any other president. Keep in mind you study covers the years 2007-2014. I think you find that that number will reverse itself when more baby-boomers retire creating a labor shortage and therefore a need to increase immigration.

Regardless, America is still the most religious country in the developed world. The percentage of atheists and agnostics have increased only by 3% and currently make up only 7% of the population. I think this is in part because Americans like their churches.. And I would argue they like them not so much because of the theology but because of the congregational form of organization which is so popular in America. In most cases it is local congregations, not the state or a hierarchical organization that governs the church. And that's the way we like it. If we don't get along in a certain church we just go shopping for another. How can you dislike ice cream when there are 31 flavors? In America, especially here in the Bible belt, the church is at the center of people's social life. That simply isn't the case in Europe.
 
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Zoness

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Also, since mainstream Christianity continues to dwindle, the fundamentalists become a larger portion within the body of the Churches.

I think this point is important about Christianity and highlights a potential political development in parts of the world where fundamentalism gets stronger; you already see it lacing American politics but I am curious what will arise in other countries as their forms of Christianity get more fundamentalist. Will we see political religious blocs like in America? Maybe not to the same intensity and porportion but I wouldn't be surprised if we did. The ones in the America, meanwhile, will become more extreme.
 
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smaneck

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I think this point is important about Christianity and highlights a potential political development in parts of the world where fundamentalism gets stronger; you already see it lacing American politics but I am curious what will arise in other countries as their forms of Christianity get more fundamentalist. Will we see political religious blocs like in America? Maybe not to the same intensity and porportion but I wouldn't be surprised if we did. The ones in the America, meanwhile, will become more extreme.

The political ramifications in Latin America are even more ominous:

http://www.firstthings.com/article/1991/05/002-evangelical-growth-and-politics-in-latin-america
 
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fat wee robin

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You left out the non-Christian religions which are coming to play a larger and larger role in the religious life of our nation. The number of Muslims and Hindus has almost doubled in the last seven years and (surprisingly) even the number of Jews has increased. I think the decrease in the number of Catholics can be explained because large numbers of Hispanics returned to Latin America due to the recession, yes, Obama's policies on immigration which deported more immigrants than any other president. Keep in mind you study covers the years 2007-2014. I think you find that that number will reverse itself when more baby-boomers retire creating a labor shortage and therefore a need to increase immigration.

Regardless, America is still the most religious country in the developed world. The percentage of atheists and agnostics have increased only by 3% and currently make up only 7% of the population. I think this is in part because Americans like their churches.. And I would argue they like them not so much because of the theology but because of the congregational form of organization which is so popular in America. In most cases it is local congregations, not the state or a hierarchical organization that governs the church. And that's the way we like it. If we don't get along in a certain church we just go shopping for another. How can you dislike ice cream when there are 31 flavors? In America, especially here in the Bible belt, the church is at the center of people's social life. That simply isn't the case in Europe.
You are right in most ways, whereas in Europe generally there is a true community in which many people are engaged and there is overall greater 'equality',and except for England, vaunting your riches will bring you disdain not approval ,so the churches fill a social role which was filled in France ,Spain and Italy by the RCC ,but less so now .

I would not write off RCC yet ,as it has done marvelous things in the past and is responsible for the beautiful towns and villages through out these countries and the more generous social care /rich culture .
The Fruits are in the every day culture ,whereas the US is according to some a 'dog eat dog' culture, where the ignorant and rich become 'stars' .Here it is quieter, less religion, more of the Spirit ;protestant culture is much less joyful , less creative, more individualistic and business orientated .Here it has left little trace as it lacks something ,
something is missing .
People are not atheists ,but completely fed up with ,and disilluioned with the hierarchical power structures and the legalistis fine tuning of ther lives which left no place for God Himself who is replaced by this clergy . When you add up the fact, that many as education became universal were discouraged to engage in bible groups ,so never have had the chance to know what Jesus really said ,never a chance talk about Him except as at Mass .
And again there are many like me who do not believe in transubstansiation, but in the
Spiritual presence of Jesus , and so they are kept away from participation at mass etc.and will not go to a priest to confess ,but confess to God Himself .

So there are not so many Atheists in France etc .,as there are people who are kept out of a Church which caters to those of a more superstitious mind set, and need rituals to engage in Church life instead of a personal Relationship with Jesus of the bible .
 
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smaneck

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I would not write off RCC yet ,as it has done marvelous things in the past and is responsible for the beautiful towns and villages through out these countries and the more generous social care /rich culture .

The problem with the Catholic Church in the US is that the insistence on celibacy in the priesthood, besides leading to infamous abuses, has led to a huge shortage of priests. Often congregations are run by nuns with priests coming solely to perform the sacraments. But this new Pope is pretty awesome and a lot of people are giving the RCC a fresh look.
 
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fat wee robin

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The problem with the Catholic Church in the US is that the insistence on celibacy in the priesthood, besides leading to infamous abuses, has led to a huge shortage of priests. Often congregations are run by nuns with priests coming solely to perform the sacraments. But this new Pope is pretty awesome and a lot of people are giving the RCC a fresh look.
There will be a renewal, but only if it is the will of God .We were never terribly popish, in our family .:sorry: I put my faith in God ,and not men, and ...
 
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fat wee robin

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I just had to add that I think that the US is unique ,is more extreme in everything ,
and not so tired .

Large churches are not meant to go on for ever ,but only until God decides, the time is ready . They serve a purpose to teach and lead people to know and honour God ,but on this earth, all things incuding religions fade away, to leave God as head of His Church ,not men.
 
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bhsmte

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Why did atheism flourish in Western Europe? The UK and the US are similar in many ways. Many of the US fundamentalist and evangelical groups began in the UK. Much culture is shared (music, literature, ...). Yet the UK is not very religious today (aside from immigrants from Muslim countries).

I have wondered if the USSR may have helped to promote atheism in Western Europe as part of the Cold War. Some people have told me that the US has always been more religious than Europe, so it has simply taken longer for atheism to catch-on in the US. Others have mentioned that WW2 was so dreadful that many Europeans decided God must not exist. (This was apparently a problem in Judaism after WW2.)

The growth of atheism in Europe apparently began in the 1960s. I assume there was a baby boom generation reaching maturity as happened in the US. In the US, the baby boomers investigated new religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age, etc. Other baby boomers investigated new Christian denominations like non-denominational, Evangelical, Charismatic. For some reason atheism was more attractive in Western Europe than it was in the US.

Any thoughts?

IMO, some of it is driven by education and some of it is culturally driven.

There is a strong correlation, between the higher and better education one receives, the less chance of them holding religious beliefs.

Science knowledge, is the kryptonite of certain religious beliefs and science knowledge in the United States, is far below many other advanced countries in Europe and Scandanavia.
 
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Zoness

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That site has never heard of line breaks which made the reading really painful but I did read it. Interesting stuff for sure and I agree that it is ominous. Maybe the Republican party will be extending branches to Latin America soon? I don't know though with Trump and his comments about Mexicans if that would work. :p
 
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smaneck

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Interesting stuff for sure and I agree that it is ominous. Maybe the Republican party will be extending branches to Latin America soon? I don't know though with Trump and his comments about Mexicans if that would work. :p

I don't think the religious right is rooting for Trump. I think they like Ben Carson. He would only send drones after illegal immigrants. ;)
 
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cloudyday2

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You left out the non-Christian religions which are coming to play a larger and larger role in the religious life of our nation. The number of Muslims and Hindus has almost doubled in the last seven years and (surprisingly) even the number of Jews has increased. I think the decrease in the number of Catholics can be explained because large numbers of Hispanics returned to Latin America due to the recession, and yes, Obama's policies on immigration which resulted in the deportation more immigrants than any other president. Keep in mind you study covers the years 2007-2014. I think you find that that number will reverse itself when more baby-boomers retire creating a labor shortage and therefore a need to increase immigration.

Regardless, America is still the most religious country in the developed world. The percentage of atheists and agnostics have increased only by 3% and currently make up only 7% of the population. I think this is in part because Americans like their churches.. And I would argue they like them not so much because of the theology but because of the congregational form of organization which is so popular in America. In most cases it is local congregations, not the state or a hierarchical organization that governs the church. And that's the way we like it. If we don't get along in a certain church we just go shopping for another. How can you dislike ice cream when there are 31 flavors? In America, especially here in the Bible belt, the church is at the center of people's social life. That simply isn't the case in Europe.
I think the 7% figure understates atheism, because another 15% identifies as "nothing in particular" or "none". This link from Pew Forum indicates the "nones" are about evenly split between apathetic atheists and seekers.
In addition to atheists and agnostics, another 9% of Americans say their religion is “nothing in particular” and that religion is not important in their lives. At the same time, however, a significant minority of “nones” say that religion plays a role in their lives. Indeed, about 7% of U.S. adults say their religion is “nothing in particular” but also say that religion is “very” or “somewhat” important in their lives, despite their lack of a formal affiliation.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/

All of this is due to the internet IMO. It will be interesting to see how far the growth in atheism continues before it slows down. I hope the trend continues and spreads to Africa and the Middle East too. Promotion of atheism in the Middle East and Africa might be a cheap and humane alternative to military efforts.
 
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danny ski

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European relationship with Christianity is a complicated one. For over thousand years, Christianity and political power were intertwined. One could make an easy case that religion was the major form of oppression. Rulers used religion to keep their subjects in line, popes(and later protestants) used the power of the state to achieve their goals. This caused endless social conflicts, poverty and very bloody wars. It is universally recognized among us(Europeans) that the dismantling of the papal influence and secularization in the 19th century were extremely positive steps toward free, just and prosperous society.
 
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smaneck

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I think the 7% figure understates atheism, because another 15% identifies as "nothing in particular" or "none". This link from Pew Forum indicates the "nones" are about evenly split between apathetic atheists and seekers..

It doesn't say that half are apathetic atheists, just that half don't think religion is important in their lives. My guess is that most of these people if pressed would say they believe in God.
 
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