Why is it and where is the line

[dogs4thewin]

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times? Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

The Bible always says He will come when we least expect it, so how does one balance that with "always being ready"?

*These are honest questions ONLY not for debate. If it turns into a debate I will request this thread be closed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Use this thread not the other by the same name. I added to it but I accidentally instead of editing it. I backed up after leaving the post and made changes and re-posted.

 

[Biblewriter]

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times? Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

The Bible always says He will come when we least expect it, so how does one balance that with "always being ready"?

*These are honest questions ONLY not for debate. If it turns into a debate I will request this thread be closed.

I agree that date setting is very, very wrong. And I also agree that it is too soon to be looking for the Antichrist, for he will not be revealed until the end times are actually in progress. But there is a scripture that clearly states that we would be able to "see the Day approaching." This is:

“Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:23-25)

This scripture gives us instructions as to how we should be behaving, and then it very clearly says, “and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.” So this scripture very plainly says that we should be able to see “the day” approaching. But how can we tell if “the Day” is indeed approaching? We can only know this by examining the prophetic scriptures. These contain many general statements about the end times. Throughout history, many have interpreted these general signs to apply to their own times. But most of them have neglected the words of Jesus when He said, “you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.” (Matthew 24:6-7) Had these people really been paying attention, they would have noticed that Jesus explicitly said, in regard to such things as these, that “the end is not yet.”

But in our own time things have become different from all times that have come before us. We can now see more than just general signs. We see very specific signs that have never been true before.

The most specific of these is the well known modern threat of nuclear annihilation. This first became a distinct possibility in my lifetime. And it was physically impossible throughout all history up to our time. In regard to this thread we need to remember that Jesus said of the end times that "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened." (Matthew 24:22) When I was young, I pondered long over this statement, saying over and over to myself, "I just can't conceive of a war that would kill everybody - and everything." Today, less than one generation later, it is common knowledge that an all-out nuclear exchange would leave no survivors on this planet. I am fully persuaded that in these words Jesus was clearly referring to the threat of nuclear annihilation. He said it was real, and in fact, He said that if He did not step in, it would most certainly take place. But He said He would step in before things went that far.

Another clear sign is that the Jews are again in their ancient homeland. This was a necessary prelude to the end times, because the end time scenario described in the Bible opens with the Jews in their land, with their own government, but in a state of unbelief and rebellion. Like the other very specific sign, this also came to pass, for the first time since before the time of Christ, in my lifetime.

Along with the return of the Jews to their homeland, can it be mere coincidence that the very nations that are currently committed to the annihilation of Israel are the very same nations as those described in the prophetic scriptures as deadly enemies of the Jews, that would attack them and eventually kill two-thirds of them? These nations specifically mentioned in the prophetic scriptures include Egypt, the Palestinians (who proudly say they are the descendants of the ancient Philistines), Syria, Assyria (which is the northern portion of modern Iraq), Babylon (which is the southern portion of modern Iraq), and Persia (which is Iran), along with Edom (which is southern Jordan and northern Saudi Arabia), Moab (which is central Jordan), and Ammon (which is northern Jordan).

And there is one more sign that has come to be within the lifetimes of the youngest adults in this forum. That is the concept of making a temporary treaty to allow things to stabilize. This was injected into international politics in the 1990's, as a solution to the fighting when Czechoslovakia flew apart. The prophetic scriptures say that a seven year covenant will be confirmed between the Jewish nation and the leader of Rome.

These are just a few of the more pointed signs that our time has much more specific reasons to think the end is near than any other time in the in the entire history of the world. There are other such signs as well, but they are not as well known or as remarkably specific to our own time.

 

[n2thelight]

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times? Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

The Bible always says He will come when we least expect it, so how does one balance that with "always being ready"?

*These are honest questions ONLY not for debate. If it turns into a debate I will request this thread be closed.

We can't set dates,because scripture says we don't know,however we are to know the season...We didn't enter unto that season until the blossoming of the fig tree,which has never happened until 1948.....Israel becoming a nation is the season....

 

[TPeterY]

The Parable of the Fig Tree from Matthew 24:32-35 [NKJV]


Matthew 24:32-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Fig Tree

32) “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33) So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34) Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35) Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Dunno how many people noticed this but in Revelation 6:12-13 [NKJV], it once again spoke of the Fig Tree after the blood moons.

Revelation 6:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances

12) I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13) And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

 

[Douggg]

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times? Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

The Bible always says He will come when we least expect it, so how does one balance that with "always being ready"?

*These are honest questions ONLY not for debate. If it turns into a debate I will request this thread be closed.

Okay, I will answer it for you. The reason is that Christianity spread to the gentiles and we have been in the time of the gentiles ever since - which, because of the gentile background the concept of what the Antichrist is about was lost to the church since them who were the first Christians, the Jews in Jerusalem who embraced Jesus - they understood what messiah meant, and therefore what Antichrist meant.

Before Revelation was given to John (with it's references to the beast), the early believes understood that "messiah" meant the promised great King of Israel that God would send the Jews. Messiah did not mean savior from our sins - that became the meaning with the advent of Christianity - but it is not what "the" messiah meant.

In 1John2:18, them who John was speaking to already had heard that Antichrist will come. Since they knew what "the" messiah meant, and that Christ, christos, was greek for messiah before specifically referring to Jesus, - then the Antichrist would be someone who the Jews would embrace as that special King of Israel, God had promised them, having rejected Jesus as their King.

Jesus was supposed to have been that King, but was crucified and was never enthroned as the King of Israel. He will of course be that King of Israel - when he returns. And Jerusalem welcomes him as their King and Savior, blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord.

But before then, the Antichrist, for a short time will be embraced by the Jews as "the" messiah King of Israel.

Well - Christians being so far removed from that first century understanding, don't even think in those terms regarding the Antichrist as primarily being the King of Israel - messiah - but not the one God intended for them.

What the first thing the typical person does when first even hearing of the Antichrist, gets started by hearing about the beast in Revelation, 666 etc. Which, while it is true, the beast is about the Antichrist, but what they don't never realize is that the beast in Revelation is the Antichrist in the final stage of his career.

So Christians and non-Christians down through the ages, have a mindset to consider the Antichrist to be some super evil dictator, Nero, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. and put together a scenario based on that. They never make the connection, or understand, and will argue, based on ignorance, to no end that the Antichrist doesn't have to be a Jew, nor that he has to be the ill begotten King of Israel. I run into this every single day.

Once the Antichrist is detached from Israel - as being the ill begotten King of Israel messiah - then it is easy for every generation to think that someone or persons of their generation is the Antichrist. The latest fad is the Mahdi is the Antichrist - which is absurd. Another long running fad is the pope or office of pope is the Antichrist. Which is also wrong. Why? Because the claimants never consider that the Antichrist has to be the ill begotten King of Israel messiah embraced by the Jews. So the end times can be their generation they believe because they don't get it that Israel has to be a nation again for the end times to take place.

So that is the explanation to your question.

I do know of one person - Arthur Pink - who wrote "The Antichrist" back in 1923, who recognized that the Antichrist has to be temporarily embraced by the Jews as their King of Israel - which he said was not possible currently at the time, because Israel was not an national state - i.e. country then back in 1923.

 

[SG9]

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times? Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

The Bible always says He will come when we least expect it, so how does one balance that with "always being ready"?

*These are honest questions ONLY not for debate. If it turns into a debate I will request this thread be closed.

If I am understanding your question correctly, I'll say this much: The line is where Christ is on the Cross. Christ is the Ending of the Beginning, and He is the Beginning of Eternity in the second ending, or next arrival. From the time of the Cross is approximately 2000 years, and the 2 is an image of the character that He draws in prophecy, which is the span of time in our generation after the Cross to form an image of the Two Witnesses.

Christ comes again to finish what He began in the Cross after His death. He still has many to resurrect so to deliver the children to the Father.

Isaiah 30:21 says that we in the end will hear the Word spoken from behind us, and this is confirming what Isaiah says in 58:14 that we have turned away backward from Judgment. The prophets paint a vivid picture of a man walking away from God, and his back is towards God therefore when He comes again He will speak and we will have a very difficult time acknowledging Him.

Then because of our mental depravity and strong delusion we will see the line behind us if we be smart to look behind, and we will look for it in front of us, instead. This means that the upside down mind ignores and can no longer see the Cross, albeit they say they do because their natural two-eyes see print in text, and cannot see the spiritual text, which is the hidden manna.

This said, I see us in the second half of the image of the Two Witnesses. This is the end of the 2000 year space that appears to be counted as one generation, IMO. A generation of time that is an image to the Two Witnesses being resurrected in the End, which is when Christ is acknowledged, or rather, renowned in the world.

Thanks

 

[Interplanner]

The generations keep thinking they are the end because the Father decided not to end the world right after the DofJ. Mk 13 said the final end might come at one of 4 options in a "24 hour cycle." That's why so many generations keeping thinking it is them.

But this is apart from the Judean/1st century catastrophe of Mt 24A. That's over with.

1948 is not a sign at all; it is quite secular, and convenient to oil companies. The medieval recapture of Jerusalem from Islam was more "sacred."

World annihilation could have happened from disease in the late medieval period, as well.

Also the covenant and timeframe of Dan 9 came to pass in the 1st century, as an ordinary reading would bear out. The New Covenant came in Christ for us to enjoy.

It would be most constructive if Christians did not try to mess with the sequences and chronologies of the Rev and just asserted that the day of judgement is coming, not to spook people, but to assert that this life and planet makes no sense without it (Eccl 12:13. The last Hebrew line there can be trans: this is what makes wholeness for man (the book is about how everything 'comes apart' otherwise). Ie, life is incomplete without the reverence of God and his day of judgement.

 

[ebedmelech]

The simple answer is we live by time, God does not. The uncertainty of when Jesus will return serves to keep us faithful.

There have been things seen in every generation causing them to think the end is imminent, and I think we should chalk it up to the church being watchful.

Anyone who sets a date, I immediately dismiss because they *can* "shipwreck" the faith of many, and God will hold them accountable.

As a young Christian in the late 80's I would listen to Harold Camping's "Open Forum" until the Lord pointed out to me His "numerology" approach to the scriptures. Another thing was when people what ask him about certain verses in Daniel 9, he would refuse to talk about them, as if he had some insight others didn't have.

Long story short, the Lord led me to stop listening to the program. When he started his "the end is near stuff" there were a good number of people that believed him...and again, just as all the others have been wrong, Camping was wrong.

We have those today still trying to do that...instead of watching and continuing to serve the Lord, which is what we should do.

When these *teachers* get it wrong the only thing they do is cause unbelievers to say "see what I mean?...that's why I don't go to church.

We can all have points of disagreement...but even so we should maintain the UNITY of the faith, unless one is clearly against the fundamental things of the faith.

 

[Biblewriter]

"scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.'" (2 Peter 3:3-4)

 

[Bible2]

dogs4thewin said in post 1:

Why is it that people in EVERY generation for the past 2000 YEARS have felt that THEY were living in the end times?

In one sense they were. For the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 is referred to in Revelation 12:14. And Revelation is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10). So the meaning of the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 was unsealed by the time Revelation was written in the first century AD. Therefore, "the time of the end" in Daniel 12:4,9 must be "the end" in the same sense as in Hebrews 9:26 (see also 1 Corinthians 10:11b), which shows that (in one sense) "the end" of the world had already begun at the time of Jesus' first coming and his crucifixion for our sins.

So Daniel 12:4b can be referring to many Christians, at anytime after Jesus' first coming and the writing of Revelation, going to and fro, going back and forth, between the still-unfulfilled parts of Revelation and Daniel, and these Christians increasing their knowledge of what's going to happen in our future by seeing how much these two books complement each other (cf. Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13).

Also, Daniel 12:6,8 doesn't contradict the fact that the time of the end in Daniel 12:4,9 can begin before the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 and all the other "wonders" and "things" referred to in Daniel 12:6,8 have ended. For the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 refers to only the specific time period of 3.5 literal years which would later be shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13), the detailed events of which have never been fulfilled. And Daniel 12:6 refers to the specific "wonders" that Daniel had just been told about in Daniel 11:2 to 12:3, which also include detailed events which have never been fulfilled (Daniel 11:31 to 12:3), including the church's resurrection into immortality (Daniel 12:2-3) at the time of the Antichrist's defeat (Daniel 11:45 to 12:3, Revelation 19:20 to 20:6), whereas Daniel 12:4,9 refers to a more general "time of the end" which began in the first century AD (Hebrews 9:26; 1 Corinthians 10:11b).

One part of Daniel that could have remained sealed until recently is the understanding of Daniel 12:11-12.

Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up, and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), and if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

dogs4thewin said in post 1:

Also, I know the Bible says to always be ready, but where is the line between that and being so occessed with it that you for example date set or are living in fear or are suspecting that every person that along is the Anti-Christ? When clearly there have been PLENTY of people by now who have been bad Like Hitler and earlier Nero and MANY more?

One of the Biblical ways to see if someone alive today could be the Antichrist is to see if his name adds up to 666.

That is, the "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual "man" who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the 3 Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the 3 obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by believers when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for believers, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all believers today wouldn't know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different believers would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If believers think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure that his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it doesn't, then he isn't the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds that he might display. But even if someone's name adds up to 666, this doesn't mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this doesn't assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there won't be any room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist; his identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).