Why does no one think the Holy Spirit will be crucified?

[Simonline]

I have two cents to offer here.
First, understand who the Holy Spirit is. He is not ever IT! The Holy Spirit in me bristles every time someone treats Him as if He is some sort of inanimate object or force. He is the Spirit of the living God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Second.God our Father, Jesus our Lord and the Holy Spirit our Comforter are ONE! Jesus was crucified, shed His blood, satisfying the full requirement for death for all time. He was raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit who is not a flesh and blood mortal person, but Spirit. So, there is no more need for anybody else to be crucified.

Whilst I absolutely concur that the Holy Spirit is Personal and not inanimate I utterly disagree that the Third Person [the Holy Spirit] rather than the First Person [the Father] is the Father of the Son either as discarnate (God) or as incarnate (human). Whilst the Gospels do declare that the Incarnation came about by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matt.1:18-25) absolutely nowhere in the Scriptures does the Messiah ever declare the Third Person of the Trinity [the Holy Spirit] to be His Father. Instead the Messiah always declares the First Person of the Trinity [the Father] to be His Father.

I know this is confusing but there is another instance where the Holy Spirit acted as the agent of the Son rather than as the agent of the Father as was the case with the Incarnation.

When the Messiah declared to His disciples '...and surely I am with you always to the very end of the age' (Matt.28:20) as Incarnate human creature (only able to be in one place at any one point in time) He [the Son, incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth] could not possibly keep that promise to His disciples except through the agency of His own discarnate Holy Spirit i.e. the Third Person of the Trinity (cf. Jn.15:5-16 and Acts.2).

In the same way the Incarnation was about the Holy Spirit acting as the agent of the First Person of the Trinity [the Father] to 'father' the Son as a finite human creature but the Scriptures are both clear and unequivocal that it is the First Person of the Trinity and NOT the Third Person of the Trinity Who is the Father (both Eternal and temporal) of the Second Person of the Trinity [the Son].

Secondly, the Incarnation is entirely distinct from the One Who has Incarnated.

YHWH the Divine Creator Exists as Tri-Personal - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. Each of them is YHWH and NONE of them is the 'Son of YHWH' [The Son IS the Son of the Father but that does NOT make Him the Son of YHWH since the Son as Divine is (along with the Father and the Holy Spirit) YHWH Himself and therefore CANNOT POSSIBLY be both YHWH Himself and the SON of YHWH]. I know this will be a profound revelation to some of you but stay with me.

Now, the Son, incarnate as the human creature Jesus of Nazareth, is NOT YHWH (i.e. is NOT God) but rather is the Son of YHWH (i.e. the Son of God) - the human incarnation of YHWH (Jn.14:28). If this is not the case (as doubtless many will immediately respond) then in what sense is the Messiah actually human (Heb.2:17) since no other finite human creature exists also as Divine (i.e. as YHWH)?

If Jesus is both Divine and human and yet also like us in every way (except, of course, in sinfulness of human nature) then by definition that must also mean that all humans are also Divine incarnations of YHWH...or Jesus is not like the rest of us at all?! In which case Jesus of Nazareth CANNOT 'represent' us as our high priest or our mediator because He is NOT an authentic human, he is (according to most Evangelical Christians [but not the Bible]) actually a Divine/human hybrid?!

All that being said, I concur wholeheartedly that the Third Person of the Trinity [the Holy Spirit], unlike the Second Person of the Trinity [the Son], has NEVER incarnated as a human creature and is under no obligation to incarnate in order to sacrifice Himself as an atoning sacrifice for the sin of the world?!

 

[Gottservant]

If what you said is true, the Holy Spirit has died already.

 

[Heterodoxus]

Gottservant asked"

Why does no one think the Holy Spirit will be crucified?

How does one crucify (execute, kill) a supernatural (non-material) spirit, holy or not?

 

[Gottservant]

Gottservant asked"How does one crucify (execute, kill) a supernatural (non-material) spirit, holy or not?

He comes in the form of a man, as Jesus did and he lays down his life, as Jesus did.

Right?

 

[Gottservant]

This is a holy thing, that whom God sends, God chastises.

Saying the Holy Spirit will not be chastised, is an easy way of saying "I do not need to do the will of God".

We should all be circumspect, presuming to say who will or won't die and when, but we should be equally circumspect about saying who won't or will die and why.

 

[Messy]

Hi there!

Something I don't get is, if Jesus said "Everyone will be tested with fire" and Jesus sends the Holy Spirit, why does no one think he will be crucified? And don't say, "we don't crucify any more" because there are plenty of ways to kill someone, I'm not saying they have to hang Him on a cross. It's just it seems obvious to me, that He has to die for the faith, like anyone that claims to be equal with God, or above God, or whatever.

You don't see that as obvious?

Because a spirit can't die. God is three Persons, but also One. Jesus was called Eternal Father, because in Him the whole Godhead dwelt bodily. The Godhead is called Eternal Father.
Jesus didn't die spiritually, but His soul died. The soul of the flesh is in the Blood (Leviticus). He gave over His will, the will of His flesh to do the will of the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. You can't split them and have One die. He is Eternal and immortal. If one Member of God died, He'd die and He has to hold the universe. Jesus said: Why have You forsaken me? That's why some say He died spiritually, but He didn't, because He said: in your Hands I command my Spirit. Only His soul was seperated from the Father.
The fire that everybody (human) will be tested with is the Fire of the Spirit.

 

[Messy]

He comes in the form of a man, as Jesus did and he lays down his life, as Jesus did.

Right?

Where did you get that from? He comes to us as the latter rain, He's omnipresent, He lives in every believer, Jesus and the Father too through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Heterodoxus]

He comes in the form of a man, as Jesus did and he lays down his life, as Jesus did.

Right?

Spare me the rhetoric and answer my question.

 

[Gottservant]

Any attempt to describe the Holy Spirit as part of the trinity and therefore not needing to die, ignores that God is just and if one must be chastened, all must be chastened

How can the Holy Spirit be above death, if we suffer?

No, there is one death and it is the Death all die in Christ, everything else is fantasy

 

[Gottservant]

Spare me the rhetoric and answer my question.

I did answer the question:

He sleeps, as men sleep: the sleep of Death

Do you think mortality can come without a price? Delusion.

 

[Phantasman]

Gottservant asked"How does one crucify (execute, kill) a supernatural (non-material) spirit, holy or not?

This Trinity idea has everyone going in circles.


If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery. -Gospel of Philip

The 'interest' is the flesh we give back. The Holy Spirit of God has nothing to do with physical.

 

[JoJo50]

first, if you mean Jesus is God, he's not! He NEVER taught he was, he ALWAYS taught he HAD a God and Father ,(John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him). Jesus showed that one MUST, get to “KNOW” GOD, just as one has to know him, IF.. they want to gain eternal life ,(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). we should not be calling Jesus “God” ,and follow what he said, instead of a lie some minister teaches. It's like one who “claims” to follow Jesus, is calling him a liar. And I really think he would know if he's the “God the Father”, or the son.


Also NO human could ever be equal to GOD ,Jehovah that is ,(Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). Jehovah's word shows NOT even Jesus was equal to him ,(1Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God). And (Philip. 2:5,6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God). I agree ANY who died for TRULY following Jesus, Will in some way be “crucified". But the Holy Spirit CAN'T be crucified, because it's NOT a being!, people keep wanting to believe it is. Because they either don't understand ,(the flocks), or refuse to teach the TRUTH, (the ministers), what Jesus really was saying.


Jesus KNEW the HS was his Father POWER, WILL, or ACTIVE FORCE to cause things to happen. What Jesus said at ,(Mark 3:29 and Matt. 12:31,32), was referring to his Father's Power. Have anyone ever stop to THINK, why DIDN'T Jesus mention HIS FATHER when he said ,(“ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come). Let's say for the sake of what MANY want to believe was, that the HS WAS a spirit being. Now, Jesus said you can't basically speak ill against the HS. But basically said you CAN speak ill against him. Question!... why didn't Jesus MENTION his Father?


Whenever he spoke, he pretty much mentioned his Father, so why didn't he do it here? Simple answer, he DID!, again he was referring to his Father's Power. NO human or even Jesus could EVER over Power Jehovah God. ANY power they have, it's by MEANS of Jehovah God giving it to them, This is HIS Holy Spirit. If the HS was part of the, (another high being), why didn't Jesus mention “him” here, he mentioned everyone else? ,(Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). At, (Acts 7:55,56), Stephen seen into Heaven because God wanted him to, NOT because there was a spirit being helping him to. So humans can still be crucified, but NO ONE could ever crucify the Holy Spirit, because it's God's Power. peace