Why do Christians worship their God?

[3sigma]

Genesis 7:21-23 claims that God wiped out everyone on the planet because humanity had become so evil and vile that the slate had to be wiped completely clean.

I find it difficult to believe that some unknown women could be spared, yet all the babies and unborn children were so evil and vile that every one of them had to be killed. Then again, I find all the nonsense in the Bible difficult to believe. Do you believe that all the babies and unborn children in the world were so evil and vile that every single one of them deserved to be killed?

Child murderers do not have the same intention as God, nor do they have the same authority. To say that the two are the same suggests that you believe that the end always justifies the means.

You weren’t claiming that intention and authority had anything to do with it. You said “It has also been pointed out several times that innocent children will go to heaven, and so the temporary suffering they endured on earth is repaid in eternal joy.” You and the others here were the ones arguing that the end justified the means. So are you a person who thinks that because babies will go to heaven it is okay to kill them? If not (and I hope that is the case) then why would you worship something that kills babies, for whatever reason?

We admire and respect God because he is God.

And it indiscriminately kills babies. Doesn’t that matter to you at all? Do you just overlook the child killing because your God promises you everlasting life? Tell me, when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children?

I'm pretty sure that if you believed that God was real you would have contempt for Him, period.

Given all the other examples of intolerance, cruelty and violence attributed to your God in the Bible, you are probably right. The indiscriminate killing of babies is just one part of it. If such a thing as your God were real, I would indeed have nothing but utter contempt for it.

 

[3sigma]

FWIW, in my view Genesis 6-9 is a narrative way of answering the question "why doesn't God just wipe out evil by force?"

So you are saying that the story isn’t actually true? How many other stories in the Bible are not true?

I don't understand those passage to say what you interpret them as saying, so ... no.

Okay, then perhaps you could explain what they mean then, please.

MT 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
MT 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

JN 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

2THESS 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Do they sound like the sorts of things a loving God would do?

 

[3sigma]

So your saying indiscriminate death of women and children isn't the issue here. your just not happy with God, does that sound right?

No, that doesn’t sound right at all. Of course the indiscriminate death of women and children is an issue. Are you okay with those deaths? Why would you worship something that causes them?

again, death is only an issue to those who fear it, or simply don't understand it

I don’t fear death so I don’t feel the need to believe that I will never really die. Wouldn’t it be more likely that those who do fear death would be the ones who would cling to beliefs like that?

 

[3sigma]

If you don't mind me asking...what is your faith/belief system please?

I have no religious beliefs or faith, nor do I believe in any other supernatural nonsense.

 

[3sigma]

Christians worship God because he is the Creator of everything

How about answering the real question in the OP? Why do Christians worship, revere, admire, respect or have any kind of “personal relationship” (whatever that means) with something that they know indiscriminately kills children and babies?

As Creator, God has the right to do with his creatures whatever he wants

So you’re okay with all the killing? You’ll just worship your God anyway?

 

[jimmyl]

I find it difficult to believe that some unknown women could be spared, yet all the babies and unborn children were so evil and vile that every one of them had to be killed. Then again, I find all the nonsense in the Bible difficult to believe. Do you believe that all the babies and unborn children in the world were so evil and vile that every single one of them deserved to be killed?

Again, my belief in God does not hinge on this issue. It is your sticking point, not mine. God decided that the only way to preserve mankind was to start over with Noah. I really don't think that I know enough to be able to tell God that He was wrong. The most I could manage would be an uninformed emotional reaction based on the unpleasantness of the situation.

You weren’t claiming that intention and authority had anything to do with it. You said “It has also been pointed out several times that innocent children will go to heaven, and so the temporary suffering they endured on earth is repaid in eternal joy.” You and the others here were the ones arguing that the end justified the means. So are you a person who thinks that because babies will go to heaven it is okay to kill them? If not (and I hope that is the case) then why would you worship something that kills babies, for whatever reason?

You insist on not recognizing the difference between an authoritative, omniscient God who created the universe, and just some dude. If you ascribe to God the same intelligence and authority as a mere human, then yes, of course you would be able to argue that it's not ok for Him to do any of the things He does in the bible. It's not ok for me to order men with guns to kill people, so how come the president of the United States gets to? Because he has that authority and I don't. The fact that the babies go to heaven is not an explanation that the end justifies the means, because getting babies into heaven was not the purpose of the decision. It was not the "end." However we mention it because it points out that your central point is not really an issue.
To restate your objection: "How can you worship a God who at one point indiscriminately sent babies to eternal paradise in order to achieve a specific goal"

 

[kevlite2020]

lol you know how when you hear a word over and over again it starts to lose meaning? I'm starting to feel that way about indiscriminate... Anyways...

How about answering the real question in the OP? Why do Christians worship, revere, admire, respect or have any kind of “personal relationship” (whatever that means) with something that they know indiscriminately kills children and babies?

God is not capable of indiscriminately doing anything. He knows all that is, was, and ever will be, and with that knowledge, He can't do anything without knowing exactly what He's doing, what effect it will have, etc. God also is perfect and always good, which means any of His wrath and anger is righteous and just. Which means He was justified in killing or allowing the deaths of anyone that has died from the beginning of time till the end of time, because only He knows all things. He knows what's in the hearts of those people and what will be best for the future of the entire world.

You and I can't peer into someone's heart and see if they are good or wicked or somewhere in between. Only God can do that. If you don't like His methods, so be it, but you cannot say that God kills indiscriminately because you are going off the Bible, and the Bible says that God knows way too much and has too great of a plan for anything to be done indiscriminately.

oops just realized I forgot to answer the question. I worship God because He gave me life, created everything I have ever/will ever know, and has come into my life to save me and deliver me from evil and give me eternal life. I think those are all things worth worshipping over!

 

[MLEN]

"Why do Christians worship, revere, admire, respect or have any kind of “personal relationship” (whatever that means) with something that they know indiscriminately kills children and babies?"

Sigma, is there any one on this earth whom you admire, respect or have any kind of personal relationship with? If so, why do admire, respect or have a relationship with them?

 

[bsd31]

I worship God because He is worth more than all life on earth past, present, or future. Male of female, young or old. Because He is worthy of being praised and worshiped and is not to be judged by our standards. In fact He's not to be judged at all, but He is to be held in the highest awe for the holiness and righteousness of His Name.

 

[Supreme]

I'm sorry, the question at hand is silly. Why do people worship God? What, do you mean as opposed to cursing Him? What else could we do to God other than worship Him?

 

[3sigma]

Again, my belief in God does not hinge on this issue. It is your sticking point, not mine.

I’m not questioning your belief in God. I’m asking why you would admire or respect something that kills babies and children. I believe that terrorists exist, but I don’t admire or respect them when they kill innocent children. Why do you admire and respect your God when it does the same? I’ll ask you again, when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children?

The fact that the babies go to heaven is not an explanation that the end justifies the means, because getting babies into heaven was not the purpose of the decision. It was not the "end." However we mention it because it points out that your central point is not really an issue.

Again, I find your comments disturbing. Do you really think that killing babies and children is “not really an issue”? You actually seem to think that such behaviour is acceptable.

To restate your objection: "How can you worship a God who at one point indiscriminately sent babies to eternal paradise in order to achieve a specific goal"

And again you appear to be focussing on the end, “eternal paradise”, rather than the act of killing. Please answer the question: when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children? Is it acceptable to you because they end up in “eternal paradise”? If so then why would you object to child murderers accomplishing the same end? Is it acceptable to you because you will blindly excuse any act of cruelty, violence or killing that your God perpetrates? How about the times your God ordered others to kill children? Are those acts excusable? Would you acquit a child murderer who used “God made me do it” as a defence? If you don’t think these things are acceptable or excusable then why do you admire or respect your God when it does them?

 

[3sigma]

Which means He was justified in killing or allowing the deaths of anyone that has died from the beginning of time till the end of time, because only He knows all things.

So you are willing to excuse any killing your God does. I wonder why?

I worship God because He gave me life, created everything I have ever/will ever know, and has come into my life to save me and deliver me from evil and give me eternal life.

I see.

 

[3sigma]

Sigma, is there any one on this earth whom you admire, respect or have any kind of personal relationship with? If so, why do admire, respect or have a relationship with them?

I admire and respect people who, among other things, use sound reasoning and judgment, overcome adversity or work hard to make something of themselves and their lives. I don’t admire or respect people who are intolerant, cruel or violent or who don’t use sound reasoning or judgment.

I have personal relationships with relatives, friends, colleagues and acquaintances. I don’t have personal relationships with people I’ve never met or with whom I’ve never had a real, two-way conversation.

How about you? Do you admire and respect a God that exhibits and teaches intolerance, cruelty and violence and kills babies and children? Have you ever actually met your God or had a real, two-way conversation with it?

 

[3sigma]

In fact He's not to be judged at all, but He is to be held in the highest awe for the holiness and righteousness of His Name.

Just to be clear, you find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You see nothing wrong with that and, in fact, you worship something that has done that?

 

[3sigma]

What else could we do to God other than worship Him?

So you also find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You don’t see that as contemptible behaviour and condemn the perpetrator, but instead you worship it?

I find so many of these responses more than disturbing. That anyone would accept or excuse such contemptible behaviour beggars belief.

 

[Supreme]

So you also find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You don’t see that as contemptible behaviour and condemn the perpetrator, but instead you worship it?

Condemn God? How do you propose we condemn such an omnipotent being? Hey, we should've killed God while we were at it (Christians incidentally believe that we did kill God, but that's a different story for another theological debate).

 

[bsd31]

Just to be clear, you find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You see nothing wrong with that and, in fact, you worship something that has done that?

Why are you so hung up on the age of the people who were judged? What does that have to do with anything? And by your reaction I'll assume you are against abortion? After all you did mention fetuses in your list of atrocities.

Yes, I certainly do worship "something" that has done that. He is the same one who will judge us, all of us, according to His standards. Not yours. Not mine. His. Why do you see a problem with that?

 

[jimmyl]

And again you appear to be focussing on the end, “eternal paradise”, rather than the act of killing. Please answer the question: when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children? Is it acceptable to you because they end up in “eternal paradise”? If so then why would you object to child murderers accomplishing the same end? Is it acceptable to you because you will blindly excuse any act of cruelty, violence or killing that your God perpetrates? How about the times your God ordered others to kill children? Are those acts excusable? Would you acquit a child murderer who used “God made me do it” as a defence? If you don’t think these things are acceptable or excusable then why do you admire or respect your God when it does them?

I already answered this and you ignored the answer. If you actually care about my answer, go back and read it in it's entirety and take each sentence in context with the rest of what I said. If you only care about repeating the same thing over and over again because you like the sound of it, then I'm done with this thread.

 

[drich0150]

No, that doesn’t sound right at all. Of course the indiscriminate death of women and children is an issue. Are you okay with those deaths? Why would you worship something that causes them?

As we know it, Death is not the end of life, but only a transformation of it. So to directly answer your question, Absolutely not. I have no issues with God giving or taking this life with or without a known purpose. Because God being who He claims to be, He has the authority and purpose to do so, whether known or not, and does not Kill indiscriminately. He merely takes life without the permission or explanation of people like 3sigma. Which seems to be the true issue if in fact you do not fear death.

I don’t fear death so I don’t feel the need to believe that I will never really die. Wouldn’t it be more likely that those who do fear death would be the ones who would cling to beliefs like that?

then why not face it? why the need to demand an explanation from someone who would seemingly cut a life short? Why is death such a wrong that it warrants such a strong response from you? That is if you did not truly fear it?

And to answer your question. to live this life and eternity with God would be great, but if I only had this life to give I would cut it short to make an equal impact for God.. (and many many others before me have, knowing little to nothing of the final resurrection.)
Why is it so wrong to worship God if He decides to take life? isn't He the one who Gave it? Then is it not His to Give or take? We can not give life in this manner so it is wrong for us to take on the role of God and take it.. Because the life we take is not our to do with as we please. If you were a potter couldn't you mold a lump of clay anyway you saw fit? and at the same time would it be wrong for you to take a lump of clay and simply decide that you did not want to continue with it? would it be immoral to take the clay back? No, because it's Your Clay.

We as Christians simply wish to worship the potter and not the vessels.

 

[3sigma]

Condemn God? How do you propose we condemn such an omnipotent being?

Why are you so hung up on the age of the people who were judged? What does that have to do with anything?
…
Yes, I certainly do worship "something" that has done that. He is the same one who will judge us, all of us, according to His standards.

As we know it, Death is not the end of life, but only a transformation of it. So to directly answer your question, Absolutely not. I have no issues with God giving or taking this life with or without a known purpose. Because God being who He claims to be, He has the authority and purpose to do so, whether known or not, and does not Kill indiscriminately.

Okay. It seems clear from these responses and others that Christians find it perfectly acceptable for this unsubstantiated God of theirs to kill babies, children or anyone else it cares to because, as far as Christians are concerned, it can do whatever it likes and they have no problem with it. It doesn’t matter how young or seemingly innocent people are, if your God wants to kill them then you have no objection. In addition, you hold the groundless belief that they aren’t really dead anyway.

I don’t think I understood before now the full implications of Christian beliefs. No only do you have no objection to it, but you actually revere and worship something you think kills people whenever it feels like it.

I’m wondering what you consider to be death at the hands of this unsubstantiated God. Was it only people in stories in the Bible who were deliberately killed by your God or is it still killing people today? When people say things like, “it was God’s will” when a baby dies, is that true or are they just struggling to deal with the senseless death of a child? Did this God you worship really kill their baby? When people are killed through “acts of God” was it really your God that killed them or is that just an anachronistic euphemism? Outside the stories in the Bible, roughly how many people has this God you worship actually killed?