Why are they gay?

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crazymichael

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This is stemming from another thread.

People are gay because?

1. They want to get attention
2. They are rebelling against their parents
3. They just want to engage in sinful behavior
4. It is not a choice, God made them gay
5. A combination of the first 3 choices.
6. Other

I screwed up the poll, haha, sorry
 

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Dungbeetle said:
During previous generations, up to say, the late 90's, I would have said that it was most likely to be number 4.

However, in recent times, society seems to be accepting and even, in some countries, promoting gay culture. In those societies, number 5 may be more common.

:thumbsup: I'm with Dungbeetle.
 
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lilymarie

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Yes and another reason has been linked to abuse and not always sexual in nature. It could just come from an abusive father or mother physically and/or a parent who is terribly damaging to the child.

Science has proven there is no homosexual gene. So, I think the number one reason is abuse. I don't believe people are born that way, except for people who are born with both sex organs; that's a birth defect. Also, many parents are using this gene selection to abort babies. If there were a gay gene, I'm sure some couples would be using it. (Not my desire, I would never abort a child.) But, this would definately be happening as gene selection is being used by parents today to decide if they want to terminate a pregnancy or not. It's sad really, I think. But, that's another topic.

I can provide link to following later if needed:

Hamer Hammered by New Scientific Study, FRC Says

"Science Confirms What I've Seen in My Own Life as Well as in the Lives of Thousands of Others Who Have Left the Homosexual Lifestyle," Cantu Says

WASHINGTON, April 22 /PRNewswire/ -- " Scientists are finally telling us what we've always known. There is absolutely no scientific proof of a 'gay gene,'" said Family Research Council Policy Analyst Yvette Cantu Thursday.​
A study conducted in 1993 by openly "gay" activist and researcher Dr. Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute examined the X chromosomes of 40 pairs of homosexual brothers. The study, which appeared in the March 1993 issue of the journal Science, found that 33 of the pairs of brothers had genetic markers for male homosexuality.​
A new study attempting to replicate Hamer's was released today by the same Science magazine, discrediting the 1993 study. The study conducted by scientists from the Department of Clinical Neurological Sciences at the University of Western Ontario and the Department of Genetics at Stanford Medical School concluded that "data do not support the presence of a gene of large effect influencing sexual orientation."​
The Boston Globe reported in February that the media-ballyhooed "gay gene" theory was already in trouble. The Globe article featured the findings of Dr. Richard Pillard, a professor of psychiatry at Boston University's School of Medicine, whose twin studies showed "that sexuality is greatly influenced by environment, and that the role of genetics is, in the end, limited."​
"These findings confirm what I've seen in my own life as well as in the lives of thousands and thousands of people who have left the lifestyle," said Cantu. "I am living proof that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic. Hamer himself has said that lesbianism is 'culturally transmitted, not inherited ... It's more environmental than genetic, more nurture than nature.' Will these recent studies force Hamer to concede that male homosexuality is also not a matter of genetics but of environment?​
"This new study reveals that Hamer's activism got in the way of his ability to remain unbiased about his research," said Cantu. " 'Gay' activists have used Hamer's research to promote everything from 'gay' marriage to 'hate crimes' legislation. However, Science's study further undermines any attempt to change public policy in his name."​
SOURCE: Family Research Council​
BBC - April 23, 1999​
Doubt cast on 'gay gene'

There is no evidence for the "gay gene" that a study claims to have found.

BBC World Service's John Newell: Is this research needed?​
Previous research suggested that male homosexuality is passed on from mother to son.​
But the new work, covering more people, aims to show that the particular genetic features implicated are no more common in gay men than would be expected.​
"Because our study was larger than the original one, we certainly had adequate power to detect a genetic effect as large as was reported in that study," said the team from the University of Western Ontario in the journal, Science.​
"Nonetheless, our data does not support the presence of a gene of large effect influencing sexual orientation," they concluded.​
However, both the studies targeted only one part of the X chromosome. The authors of the new study say that: "These results do not preclude the possibility of detectable gene effects elsewhere in the genome."
Equality needed

Griffith Vaughan Williams from the UK Campaign for Homosexual Equality says conflicting research results in this field are beside the point: "The most important thing is, that however I and other homosexuals are created, we are treated as equals."​
When the first study was published in 1993, there was concern it might lead to pre-natal screening and abortion of foetuses carrying the gene.​
The new study used DNA from 52 pairs of gay brothers. These were recruited via advertisements in two Canadian gay news magazines. Mr Williams expressed surprise that so many homosexuals were willing to help in such experiments.​
The researchers looked to see if the gay brothers shared more of the candidate genetic markers than would be expected. Any pair of brothers will share about half their DNA on any particular chromosome.​
They found that 46% of the 52 pairs of brothers shared three key markers. In the previous study, which considered five markers, those scientists reported that 83% of 40 pairs shared the markers.
Conflicting results

"It is unclear why our results are so discrepant from the original study," say the scientists in Science. This is strong language for a scientific journal, implying the scientists believe that mistakes were made in the first study.​
However, none of the team would speak to the BBC to confirm this. The new study has been criticised by the lead author of the old study, Professor Dean Hamer, over how the subjects were selected.​
The 1993 study was the most powerful piece of evidence for a strong genetic factor in male homosexuality.​
But other studies, such as one showing that identical twins are more likely to both be gay than non-identical twins, means that the nature-nurture debate will continue.​
© BBC​
On Line Opinion

June 08, 2004
Homosexuality is not biologically determined - latest research.

By David van Gend
The Titanic of Gay Rights, leaving all in its wake, is about to founder on a large and immovable fact....
The iceberg of clinical fact looming up in the dark is this: that homosexuals who want to become heterosexual can and do change, as authoritative medical research has now demonstrated. Given the will, and skilled therapy, there can be an end to the nightmare of same-sex attraction. That is the best news for our heartsick friends down below deck, but it is bad news for the complacent triumphalists of the Gay Titanic....
As to the exact causes of homosexuality, the medical jury is still out. But the baseless claim, promoted by [Australian] Justice Michael Kirby and others, that gays are just born that way, is given no support by the American Psychiatric Association. Their Fact Sheet on Sexual Orientation (2000) sums it up: "There are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality"....
Full Story
Update 2005 02 09
New Genetics Study Undermines Gay Gene Theory

research review by Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D. & Durwood Ray, Ph.D.
Full Story
Note also that the original announcement of the study that Drs. Throckmorton and Durwood reviewed mentions that,
Other researchers involved in the study were Dean Hamer, at the National Institutes of Health; Nicholas Schork and Caroline Nievergelt, at the University of California at San Diego; Michael DuPree, at Pennsylvania State University; and Sven Bocklandt, at the University of California at Los Angeles.
 
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Dungbeetle

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NewGuy101 said:
I think it's number three more than anything and there's no way it could be number four unless God is a hypocrite.

Look, I know for a fact that people are born that way. It runs in my family.

Maybe God did not intend it. Perhaps it was caused by the environment, too much pollution or female hormones in the rivers, etc. Or perhaps it is caused by people putting off marriage until they are older (than 14 or 16). Maybe it is caused by single-sex secondary schools.

Who knows what causes it but the fact remains that by the age of 18 a person is either gay, straight or bisexual. And there is usually nothing that they can do about it. As Christians we ought to have compassion for those peope, not condemn them.
 
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ebia

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NewGuy101 said:
I think it's number three more than anything and there's no way it could be number four unless God is a hypocrite.
Well, all the evidence is that sexuality is not a choice,
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html#choice
so the possibilities are that:

a. God isn't in control
b. God made gays that way and is a hypocrite
c. God made gays that way and loves them

My money is on c; the only one that fits Christ's teaching and the rest of scripture.
 
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relspace

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crazymichael said:
This is stemming from another thread.

People are gay because?

1. They want to get attention
2. They are rebelling against their parents
3. They just want to engage in sinful behavior
4. It is not a choice, God made them gay
5. A combination of the first 3 choices.
6. Other

I screwed up the poll, haha, sorry

I believe that number 4 is one of the sacred beliefs of the gay rights movement, which they hope force all people to accept as true, against our will if necessary. I do not subscribe the beliefs of their fanatical religion.

I believe that homosexuality is a choice they make for many reasons which are none of my business, and which must therefore be respected.

People have no more right to force a belief that homosexuality is a sin on them, than they have the right to force their beliefs on us.

I respectfully assume that when they have relationship with someone it is because of love and not because they are the victims of some physical drive they had from birth and which they have no control over. However if they wish to deny this that is their business.


I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER accept the program of the gay rights movement to equate sexual preference with race and sex (male/female). But I do believe that gay rights should be guaranteed under religious freedom and that any group of people should have the right to get legal recognition as a family.
 
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ReformedChapin

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Dungbeetle said:
Look, I know for a fact that people are born that way. It runs in my family.

Maybe God did not intend it. Perhaps it was caused by the environment, too much pollution or female hormones in the rivers, etc. Or perhaps it is caused by people putting off marriage until they are older (than 14 or 16). Maybe it is caused by single-sex secondary schools.

Who knows what causes it but the fact remains that by the age of 18 a person is either gay, straight or bisexual. And there is usually nothing that they can do about it. As Christians we ought to have compassion for those peope, not condemn them.
You wanna provide evidence for these "facts"?
 
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ReformedChapin

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relspace said:
I believe that number 4 is one of the sacred beliefs of the gay rights movement, which they hope force all people to accept as true, against our will if necessary. I do not subscribe the beliefs of their fanatical religion.

I believe that homosexuality is a choice they make for many reasons which are none of my business, and which must therefore be respected.

People have no more right to force a belief that homosexuality is a sin on them, than they have the right to force their beliefs on us.

I respectfully assume that when they have relationship with someone it is because of love and not because they are the victims of some physical drive they had from birth and which they have no control over. However if they wish to deny this that is their business.


I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER accept the program of the gay rights movement to equate sexual preference with race and sex (male/female). But I do believe that gay rights should be guaranteed under religious freedom and that any group of people should have the right to get legal recognition as a family.
relativistic..yum
 
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artybloke

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I believe that homosexuality is a choice they make for many reasons which are none of my business, and which must therefore be respected.

For some people it is a choice; for others, I don't think they can be anything else. I suspect there's a spectrum.

I've known gay people to have relationships with women, and lesbians to have relationships with men. It happens to straight people too; though it's never happened to me, however many times I watch Will & Grace.

Personally, I think one's sexuality is nobody's business but one's own. I don't see what some outmoded legal code from 3000 years ago has to do with me.
 
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johnd

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...setting aside the options from the poll the OP tried to take.

Some people are born with the opposite of what their gender calls for. Meaning there are masculine females and effeminate males. This some would say proves that God makes some people gay from birth. I disagree. It sets them up for ridicule and rejection which often pushes them into relationships with others like themselves in their search for love and acceptance. But it does not preclude their sexual preferences. I have known both types who were not gay at all.

Others are simply perverse. They seek sexual satisfaction through degrees of shame, fear, wantonness, and aggression. In any case they gravitate towards those of like desires.

For example: men tend to want instant gratification and women tend to want a measured build up towards ultimate gratification. So these people end up with their own gender to match these desires.

The extremely perverse want sex all the time the way they want it... and often includes various fetishes.

I have known several gay people over the years. One who recently became a famous Broadway producer and was on this years televised Tony Award show was a witness at my wedding 25 years ago.

We hadn't seen him since our wedding until 2 years ago when we caught his play in preview. He wasn't even supposed to be there the night we went (we are life long friends with his cousin). But he was there to work on last minute rewrites etc. When we got his autograph, I mused that we already had it on our wedding license.

I also have done some research into homosexuality since I was molested as a young teen by a man, and I wanted to find out what drives people to think and act like that. I also had to insure my own sexuality which never waivered from heterosexuality. Any fears I had early on stemmed from the molestation and being so young and not knowing what to do with my anger and shame about the whole thing.

I obviously have worked all these things out and now help others who have been through what I have. It took me years to be able to even talk about the subject at all.

I learned also not to broad-brush (or in this case ****** brush) all gays into the category of the predator who stalks children. Those who practice this form of sexual perversion (whether heterosexual or homosexual) must be removed from society for good.

Another surprising discovery are the common threads that run through all sexuality. For example, whether we realize or admit it or not, much of all sexuality is shame-based. It's what excites / arouses us in the first place. And no wonder, it is what the Bible hinted at about the subject since the days of Adam and Eve.

Genesis 2:25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Arguably a statement that they either had no sexual desire (like innocent children do not) or that procreation arousal in those days under the conditions of sinlessness did not involve arousal based on shame. For Genesis 3:11 strongly indicates they did not even know they were unclothed.

All these things taken into account argue for the sanctity and the privacy of sexuality (Leviticus chapters 18 and 20, Job 31, Matthew 5:27-30, 1 Corinthians chapters 6 and 7). God's way is the best way to protect and nurture our sexuality. And ANY deviation from that path, any deviation, is a perversion.

It is ironic that most who condemn others as perverse are themselves perverse albeit to a lessor degree... they are still on the same road as the more deviant pervert.

Perversion from God's path for human sexuality is everywhere. Public displays of nudity, voyeurism, flirtation, adultery, nudity in advertising. And it all contributes to the sexual instability of a society. We are after all, it seems, our brother's keeper.
 
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Dungbeetle

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NewGuy101 said:
You wanna provide evidence for these "facts"?

What do you want, exactly?

Shall I get my family to come down here with their testimonies? Somehow I don't think that would work. Elsewhere on this forum someone has produced a heart-breaking personal testimony but some people still don't believe him.

What other possible evidence could there be?

There was a documented suicide by an Anglican vicar who could not reconcile his homosexuality with his religion. Would that be evidence enough for you?
 
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