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Who sits at Jesus right and left?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by JoabAnias, Jul 29, 2009.

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  1. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    21 Who said to her: What wilt thou? She saith to him: Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom. 22 And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. 23 He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. 24 And the ten hearing it, were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them to him, and said: You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them.
    Douay-Rheims Bible, Gospel According to Saint Matthew Chapter 20

    This reading came up recently and I thought of asking for theories of who people think set at the Lords right and left.

    Any guesses?
     
  2. stone

    stone Senior Contributor Supporter

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    I'd guess Mary for one, not sure of the other.
     
  3. polishbeast

    polishbeast Servant of Jesus

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    Well Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, so that would make the Father on His left. And I tend to think Mary sits at His right hand.
     
  4. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    I've thought of that too but was kind of thinking of the Trinity as one.

    I have little doubt of our Blessed Mother right there on Jesus left but there are so many other saints to pick from that could be on the right hand of the Trinity, or the Father, as you put it, that it gets a lot harder to guess.

    Peter, Joseph, Abraham, Elijah, Moses, or even just everyone else and all of heaven. I guess its a wait and see occasion. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  5. Tonks

    Tonks No longer here Supporter

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    Thomas Aquinas had a few thoughts in the Summa...

    SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Christ's sitting at the right hand of the Father (Tertia Pars, Q. 58)

    In Part:

    Article 1. Whether it is fitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father?


    Objection 1. It would seem unfitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father. For right and left are differences of bodily position. But nothing corporeal can be applied to God, since "God is a spirit," as we read in John 4:24. Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.
    Objection 2. Further, if anyone sits at another's right hand, then the latter is seated on his left. Consequently, if Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, it follows that the Father is seated on the left of the Son; which is unseemly. Objection 3. Further, sitting and standing savor of opposition. But Stephen (Acts 7:55) said: "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.


    Reply to Objection 1. As Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iv): "We do not speak of the Father's right hand as of a place, for how can a place be designated by His right hand, who Himself is beyond all place? Right and left belong to things definable by limit. But we style, as the Father's right hand, the glory and honor of the Godhead."
    Reply to Objection 2. The argument holds good if sitting at the right hand be taken corporeally. Hence Augustine says (De Symb. i): "If we accept it in a carnal sense that Christ sits at the Father's right hand, then the Father will be on the left. But there"--that is, in eternal bliss, "it is all right hand, since no misery is there." Reply to Objection 3. As Gregory says in a Homily on the Ascension (Hom. xxix in Evang.), "it is the judge's place to sit, while to stand is the place of the combatant or helper. Consequently, Stephen in his toil of combat saw Him standing whom He had as his helper. But Mark describes Him as seated after the Ascension, because after the glory of His Ascension He will at the end be seen as judge."
     
  6. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    Great stuff M. I have never envisioned any division in the Trinity and that quote puts it so well. Thanks.

    I guess thats why I see no problem with double procession either. ;) (as an aside) ^_^
     
  7. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran

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    I asked this same question here in OBOB only a couple of weeks ago and didn't really get a decent answer (http://www.christianforums.com/t7385003/), particularly as I was asking what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter. I meant to respond but lost track of the thread as it quickly sank beyond the first page of OBOB.
     
  8. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran

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    What has surprised me is that Catholics seem to be wholly ignorant of this knowledge while it is clearly understood in the Orthodox Church. This is commonly depicted on the iconostasis, though depending on the size of the church the saint on Christ's left may be the one the particular church is dedicated to. Panagia (Mary) is always depicted as standing at Christ's right hand, and apart from those churches which honour a particular saint in the limited space available to them, St John the Forerunner and Baptist is always on Christ's left hand. Sometimes they will be depicted thus in a single icon above the royal doors of the iconostasis.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Welcome to St. Philip's Antiochian Orthodox Church!
     
  9. Greg the byzantine

    Greg the byzantine have mercy on me Supporter

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    interesting, I was wondering if the Byzantine Catholics have a more concrete view. The Iconography of the Orthodox church which is shared by the Byzantine Catholics demonstrate this in the Deisis Icon:

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Tigg

    Tigg Senior Veteran

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    My goodness! Who is on the right and the left. The story isn't over as the end hasn't come to this world yet for any to find out that answer. Ya all are in the running for the right or left (believe the right hand would be the preferred?), as I am also! ^_^

    Truly, though. I would be happy with any spot the dear Lord would give me in His presence. I personally think I might be light years in the distance from the dear Lord and will need heavenly binoculars. God bless.
     
  11. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran

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    Judging from what I've read so far, they don't seem to have received this tradition from Rome
     
  12. SecretOfFatima

    SecretOfFatima Our Lady of Fatima: Song of Solomon 6:10 (NIV)

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    To me this scripture portraits some kind of judgment or personal choice (the choice of good versus evil or choosing to be in a state of grace versus state of sin).... as we hear about in judgment day (freedom to choose to be at the right or left hand side)...


    This may also sound crazy, but if you familiar with padre Pio's life, then this scripture may also remind you of the sufferings that padre Pio accept... at times I think surely is wrong for someone to attempt to share in the sufferings Christ undertook to pay for our sins, but the fact is if what happened to Padre Pio is true and accepted by the church then this scripture would make a lot of sense, in other words, like GOD will give us certain gifts, so GOD can also give some certain crosses to carry (I'm talking about suffering)...

    There is a video about padre called "At The Gates of Heaven" which really dwelves into what I'm trying to explain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
  13. Memento Mori

    Memento Mori Guest

    I would think the expression "to sit on my right hand or my left hand" simply means to be in heaven. I don't think it is a special designation. The point of what Jesus said seems to be that the Father elects, not the Son. Remember Jesus talks about those His Father has given Him.
     
  14. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    Good points. I do believe there are different rooms in the mansion (heaven) though.

    I also thought about St. John the Baptist like the Deisis icon above depicts which I never knew existed before. I believe St. John was sanctified in the womb. ;)

    I can't rule out Jesus words though: "but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father."

    As the powers to bind and loose haven't given us a definitive answer then, well, for me, even though its rather easy to conclude our "New Eve" is right there, it remains up in the air to find out who our Father prepared for those places when our time comes. I still like the notion of it being everyone else who is a Saint in His presence. Its interesting to know the EO seem to have come to a conclusion on this. Could that be considered a development of doctrine? ^_^
     
  15. Tonks

    Tonks No longer here Supporter

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    Well, he is called the "Forerunner" for a reason... :)
     
  16. MrStain

    MrStain Nobody likes to be the Newbie

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    That was a neat thread and I was wondering why no one was answering. I gave it a shot, but I guess my answer wasn't "decent" enough. :( Poor, poor me.

    John the Baptist on the left, huh? Fascinating. I'll have to keep an eye out for that the next time I visit the Orthodox Church nearby.
     
  17. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran

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    Why would the other disciples be indignant then?

    In response to those who relate this to the sheep and the goats being separated, James and John's request was to sit at His left and right hand in His Kingdom, not in His judgement.

    John
     
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