Who Has Changed Times And Laws?

[ozell]

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


who is this that will do this?
How will he do it?
what law and time will he change?

 

[NatalieJan777]

If he is speaking great words AGAINST the MOST HIGH it can only br Satan who works through the false prophets. He leads us away from the TRUTH (GOD's laws written in the hearts of all men, written in the WORD) and leads us into the here and now (selfishness, selfcenteredness) and away from eterenity (GOD's WILL).

http://biblecommenter.com/daniel/7-25.htm

 

[eyzonthepriz]

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


who is this that will do this?
How will he do it?
what law and time will he change?

Who? the popes of Rome did.
How and what time? Pope Gregory XIII changed times by way of the Gregorian calendar.
What law? Compare and contrast the ten commandments and those of the catholic church.



Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods but me.
2. You shall not make unto you any graven images
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your mother and father
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

Abbreviated Catholic Ten Commandments:

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

The first thing which to notice is that after the first commandment, numbering starts to change. For example in the Catholic listing the imperative against adultery is the sixth commandment; for Jews and most Protestants it is the seventh.
One other interesting difference occurs in how Catholics translate the Deuteronomy verses into actual commandments. In the Butler Catechism, verses eight through ten are simply left out. The Catholic version thus omits the prohibition against graven images - an obvious problem for the Roman Catholic church which is rife with shrines and statues. To make up for this, Catholics divide verse 21 into two commandments, thus separating the coveting of a wife from the coveting of farm animals. The Protestant versions of the commandments retain the prohibition against graven images, but it seems to be ignored since statues and other images have proliferated in their churches as well.
If you want a fuller explanation, here is a sermon that does a much better job than I ever could. Note the audio skips a bit here and there but It will clarify alot of unanswered questions.
www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

 

[ozell]

If he is speaking great words AGAINST the MOST HIGH it can only by Satan who works through the false prophets. He leads us away from the TRUTH (GOD's laws written in the hearts of all men, written in the WORD) and leads us into the here and now (selfishness, self centeredness) and away from eternity (GOD's WILL).

Daniel 7:25 Bible Commentary

who are some of these false prophets that has crept into God's church?

 

[ozell]

Who? the popes of Rome did.
How and what time? Pope Gregory XIII changed times by way of the Gregorian calendar.
What law? Compare and contrast the ten commandments and those of the catholic church.



Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods but me.
2. You shall not make unto you any graven images
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your mother and father
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

Abbreviated Catholic Ten Commandments:

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

The first thing which to notice is that after the first commandment, numbering starts to change. For example in the Catholic listing the imperative against adultery is the sixth commandment; for Jews and most Protestants it is the seventh.
One other interesting difference occurs in how Catholics translate the Deuteronomy verses into actual commandments. In the Butler Catechism, verses eight through ten are simply left out. The Catholic version thus omits the prohibition against graven images - an obvious problem for the Roman Catholic church which is rife with shrines and statues. To make up for this, Catholics divide verse 21 into two commandments, thus separating the coveting of a wife from the coveting of farm animals. The Protestant versions of the commandments retain the prohibition against graven images, but it seems to be ignored since statues and other images have proliferated in their churches as well.
If you want a fuller explanation, here is a sermon that does a much better job than I ever could. Note the audio skips a bit here and there but It will clarify alot of unanswered questions.
www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

so the Catholic church has played a major role in changing God's laws,

what about the Orthodox and protestants?

 

[eyzonthepriz]

so the Catholic church has played a major role in changing God's laws,

what about the Orthodox and protestants?

I think its all about the roman catholic church. No other denomination has fulfilled the prophecies or had a "leader" (pope) that the world recognized in the past or present or had the absolute power to martyer the saints. The roman catholic church did this during the inquisitions. Remember the little horn/ man of sin was also called the son of perdition. Judas Iscariot was called this too, he like the popes of rome claim to be christian but really were not. All this has been lost by the modern day church, they now listen to the false teachings of the "secret rapture" and "antichrist" here or there made popular by John darby and C.I. Scofeild. Most dont even know this teaching only came about in the 1800's. We are in the perilous times of the last days... 2 Timothy chapter 3

 

[NatalieJan777]

who are some of these false prophets that has crept into God's church?

I cannot rightly answer this question.

What I can tell you that I do know is that if I remain in CHRIST JESUS and HIS WORDS remain in me (John 15:7), These false prophets (AKA antichrist) have no power over me.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that has overcome the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of GOD.

If only I could read the hearts of men, then perhaps I could rightly answer your question and know for certain who truly believes that Jesus is the Son of GOD and who does not. Of course there are the obvious ones who out and out deny JESUS. 1 Timothy 5:24-25

 

[ozell]

I think its all about the roman catholic church. No other denomination has fulfilled the prophecies or had a "leader" (pope) that the world recognized in the past or present or had the absolute power to martyr the saints. The roman catholic church did this during the inquisitions. Remember the little horn/ man of sin was also called the son of perdition. Judas Iscariot was called this too, he like the popes of rome claim to be christian but really were not. All this has been lost by the modern day church, they now listen to the false teachings of the "secret rapture" and "antichrist" here or there made popular by John darby and C.I. Scofield. Most dont even know this teaching only came about in the 1800's. We are in the perilous times of the last days... 2 Timothy chapter 3

I agree with you so far , the Catholic church is the power behind what we call the word of God today, but we also have recorded history that the Orthodox and Protestants founders were Roman Catholics, should they shoulder some responsibility?

 

[ozell]

I cannot rightly answer this question.

What I can tell you that I do know is that if I remain in CHRIST JESUS and HIS WORDS remain in me (John 15:7), These false prophets (AKA antichrist) have no power over me.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that has overcome the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of GOD.

If only I could read the hearts of men, then perhaps I could rightly answer your question and know for certain who truly believes that Jesus is the Son of GOD and who does not. Of course there are the obvious ones who out and out deny JESUS. 1 Timothy 5:24-25

Jesus warned us about the one's who come in his name preaching Jesus.

Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mk 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

according to this statement I ought not worry about the one who deny Jesus, their words from the beginning has ran me off.

what about when Paul said

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Jesus and Paul warned us about another Jesus, is this the Jesus that has changed times and laws?

 

[NatalieJan777]

Jesus warned us about the one's who come in his name preaching Jesus.

Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mk 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

according to this statement I ought not worry about the one who deny Jesus, their words from the beginning has ran me off.

what about when Paul said

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Jesus and Paul warned us about another Jesus, is this the Jesus that has changed times and laws?

Here is what I am saying. If I remain in Christ and HIS WORD remains in me, I cannot be decieved.

If a man were to come today and say "I am Christ" I know I would not be decieved. If he were to return as Christ Jesus is suppose to Matthew 24:27, I might possibly be decieved. But Jesus doesn't say that it will happen this way. And I believe the Appostle Paul when he says that "in a twinkling of an eye" it will all happen. 1 Corinthians 15:52

But look at Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible." I believe that if any Christian is decieved it is because they have let themselves be, by ignorance to the WORD of GOD.

I am firm in the belief that Christ Jesus will not allow the elect to be deceived.

From what I understand from scripture,the antichrist appears to be like Jesus but is not. His attempt will be to mimic CHRIST. Those who know Jesus and HIS WORD will not and cannot be deceived. I am not going to believe a man when he says he is Christ Jesus, but I will trust the Holy Spirit for that discernment.

I get this sinking heart/stomach feeling when I reflect on what is written in Revelation about the end times and it is my fear that the people who refuse to repent are the ones that don't know the WORD of GOD and have already been missled by their ignorance of scripture and that the reason they will not repent is because they are not aware of what to repent of. Their hearts will have been hardened totally beyond repentance even in light of the suffering of the plagues.

It is unfortunate indeed that many churches do not hold true to what the bible says and have created man made commandments and requirements that blind them from what the WORD of GOD actually says. Someone here has a saying under their threads that goes something like this 'Some people have enough dust on their bibles to write the word condemned on them' and honestly, I believe this to be truth.

 

[eyzonthepriz]

I agree with you so far , the Catholic church is the power behind what we call the word of God today, but we also have recorded history that the Orthodox and Protestants founders were Roman Catholics, should they shoulder some responsibility?

No they shouldn't, they we blessed with seeing the error and did what they were told:
Revelation 18

1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

[ozell]

No they shouldn't, they we blessed with seeing the error and did what they were told:
Revelation 18

1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Is it not recorded history that the Orthodox and Protestant founders where Roman Catholics?

The Orthodox and Protestants reformers kept much of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church!

The first is the day of worship.

Orthodox and 99.9% Protestant hallow the sun day as a day to worship.

is this not correct?

 

[ozell]

here is what history says;

(Catholic Online Encyclopedia)

Sunday

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology. The seven planets, known to us as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day (see CALENDAR).

During the first and second century the week of seven days was introduced into Rome from Egypt, and the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day. The Teutonic nations seem to have adopted the week as a division of time from the Romans, but they changed the Roman names into those of corresponding Teutonic deities. Hence the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag).

Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God.

(Funk and Wagnall’s Encyclopedia)

SUNDAY, first day of the week.

Its English name, and German name (Sonntag) as well, is derived from Lat. dies solis, "sun's day," the name of a pagan Roman holiday.

In the New Testament (see Rev. 1:10) it is called the Day of God, Dominica in the Latin version, from which the name of Sunday is derived in Romance languages (Fr. Dimanche; Ital. Domenica; Sp. Domingo; Rom. Duminica). In the early days of Christianity Sunday began to replace the Sabbath , and to be observed to honor the resurrection of Christ.

Sunday was instituted as a day of rest, consecrated especially to the service of God, by the Roman emperor Constantine the Great. Since the 4th century ecclesiastical and civil legislation has regulated work on Sunday and service attendance.

Who was the one that changed the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday?

Sunday was instituted as a day of rest, consecrated especially to the service of God, by the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great.

Since the 4th century ecclesiastical and civil legislation has regulated work on Sunday and service attendance. So you see man changed this.

 

[NatalieJan777]

The Roman Empire has also been equated with Babylon which is where Satan is to have his strongest hold. Yes, man has changed it by what you've presented, but by what force??? Can you say with certainty?

 

[eyzonthepriz]

Is it not recorded history that the Orthodox and Protestant founders where Roman Catholics?

The Orthodox and Protestants reformers kept much of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church!

The first is the day of worship.

Orthodox and 99.9% Protestant hallow the sun day as a day to worship.

is this not correct?

I agree that alot of the protestant churches are the daughters of Rome and keep things I disagree with, most people never study to know where error is or is not. That's on them, I follow the Lord where he leads me and I instruct my family on the truthes He shows me.
I don't know anything about the orthodox churches so I'll not comment. I suspect you are a Seventh Day Adventist so I must state what you probably heard a thousand times...Protestants no more worship the sun on Sunday, than the sabbath keepers worship Saturn on Saturday. I Really dont feel the need to go on and on about that.

 

[ozell]

NatalieJan777;52912584]The Roman Empire has also been equated with Babylon which is where Satan is to have his strongest hold. Yes, man has changed it by what you've presented, but by what force??? Can you say with certainty?

there are many certainties.

Jesus said
Jn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Paul said
2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Daniel said

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Satan has given his people the power to change the word of God.

because he is the god and prince of this world, he has blinded even those who are unaware of the truth from seeing the truth!

most christians are not aware of there reason of attending church on sunday. they are not aware of the persons who implemented this.
niether do they care.

The Orthodox and Protestant may have separated from the Mother Church yet there day of worship did not change along wth many other things.

Is it not written that God spoke these words concerning the seventh day of the week.

Ex 20v1: And God spake all these words, saying,

8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[ozell]

I agree that alot of the protestant churches are the daughters of Rome and keep things I disagree with, most people never study to know where error is or is not. That's on them, I follow the Lord where he leads me and I instruct my family on the truthes He shows me.
I don't know anything about the orthodox churches so I'll not comment. I suspect you are a Seventh Day Adventist so I must state what you probably heard a thousand times...Protestants no more worship the sun on Sunday, than the sabbath keepers worship Saturn on Saturday. I Really dont feel the need to go on and on about that.

No I'm not a seventh day Adventist, they are a protestant church also.

I did not ask you to go on and on about sun worship, nor Saturn worship, neither do it need it brought up in our discussion.

this discussion is not about who worship what, it is about who change times and laws.

please stay on topic.

Now if you agree that a lot of protestants are the daughters of Rome, are they just as guilty as their Mother?

is it safe to say that all or 99.9% of the protestant founders were Roman Catholics?

 

[eyzonthepriz]

Now if you agree that a lot of protestants are the daughters of Rome, are they just as guilty as their Mother?

Hmmm, this is where it gets tricky...
As I stated earlier I believe those who left did so because the were shown truth by the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Those who were liberated from the mother church then had to "study to show themselves approved" because truth is not a right. Most wander around for many years in confusion. Among those also liberated were the elect who were given more and more truth. Matthew 22:14 confirms this:"Many are called but few are chosen." So to answer your question as honesty as I can, I must say that ultimately they do have some guilt, not guilt of generating false doctrine but of rejecting or neglecting the pursuit of truth when the Lord allows it to come your way. If the Lord shows you truth and you don't take it or compromise it, the Lord will move against you and send you strong delusions so you will believe lies (2 Thess. 2:11).

 

[NatalieJan777]

Satan has given his people the power to change the word of God.

Thank You! You only said man changed it before. Therefore I missunderstood what you were saying.

 

[ozell]

(Grolier Encyclopedia)

Week Days

The Babylonians used a non astronomical, 7 day interval, the week, which was adopted by the Jews. The seventh day, the Sabbath, was given a religious significance. Independently, the Romans associated a cycle of 7 days with the Sun, the Moon, and the five known planets.

Their names became attached to the days of the week:

Sunday (dies solis, "Sun's day"),
Monday (dies lunae, "Moon's day"),
and Saturday (dies Saturni, "Saturn's day") retain names derived directly from the Roman culture,
and Tuesday ("Tiw's day"),
Wednesday ("Woden's day"),
Thursday ("Thor's day"),
and Friday ("Frigg's day") are derived from the Germanic equivalents of Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, and Venus, respectively.

Who named the days of the week? The Romans.