Where is the love for the people in suffering?

[OldWiseGuy]

There is nothing as rewarding as being a self-made man, figuring stuff out by yourself, doing things by (and for) yourself. We've largely lost that. Back in the day even someone without any formal education knew how to build a house. Today graduate students, the best and brightest, don't know how to stop a toilet from overflowing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

2012: Do I need to remind you about Offshore leaks and about the austerity?

Funny you should mention that. They asked for any help anyone could offer. I designed a simple cap that would have shut off the flow of oil until they found a permanent fix. Never heard back, and the spill went on for nearly a month after that. I also designed an inexpensive vacuum collection system that could have been put into service in a matter of weeks (I didn't send them this as my cap had been ignored).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I tried to fix my personal life first, and I think I managed to sort it pretty well, I am doing the activities that I enumerated above, I am always trying to find better ideas and to participate in more beneficial activities. I am investing in friendships that really worth and not wasting my time with superficial relations. I even changed my diet, now I'm in much better shape than before, I am raw vegan and that's much more ethical than my previous diet. I am trying to reduce my carbon footprint - I don't have a car, I am using public transportation. I am trying to have a decent life, without any unnecessary wealth and luxury, without disturbing others. And above all, I am trying to find others like me.

It seems to me that you want to form a movement around yourself, collecting 'disciples' to your way of life. Are you sure you don't have a messiah complex?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I actually start to feel something like claustrophobia if the topic of economics crops up. It's like being made to watch paint dry, but more irritating.

It is fun to argue about however, especially if one has been successful.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The establishment knows very well how economy works. They have lots of think thanks creating the economic strategies for them and while the media tries to make it look like the corporations are independent outfits with their own minds, they are in fact working closely with the government in order to make things happen, according to the plans.

Works for me. The government is the best single source of money that circulates within the domestic economy. All you need to capture it as it passes is a job. Once you have job you're on the way; no college needed if your goal is wealth.

 

[NewBlizzard]

I find when I'm suffering through severe mental illness episodes people back away and disengage, or even worse start to hate me.

Although I can't say I'm much better when others are in pain.

I had my own share of stress, anxiety, panic attacks, could not sleep in the nights and so on, for many many years. Not mental illness but psychological disorders which are the fertile ground for developing mental illness.
In this world where the culture of greed, selfishness and individualism prevail, where most of the people are facing long term insecurity, such psychological disorders are affecting the vast majority of the people.
Things are not without a cause.

If the people disengage, that's because they are trained to think that "if you work hard, you will make it", which implies the conclusion that, if you have problems, it's all your fault. "If you have problems that means you didn't make it and that means you didn't work hard enough", according to that twisted logic.

The people do not fail because they didn't work hard enough. They fail because the system is not allowing them to have a decent life. And many times the system is working the people to death:
The average life expectancy of migrant and seasonal farm workers in the USA is 49 years of age, in comparison to the U.S. average of 75 years of age

 

[NewBlizzard]

I find it odd that you seem to equate becoming someone's landlord to "helping them." How does that help them?

"You sir...the poor guy huddled in the hut...you need some help?"

"Yes sir, please."

"Ok...I just bought your land...cough up some rent! Don't worry...it's cheap!"

First of all, the governments should do land reforms, taxing the rich and super-rich, and buying land with that tax money. If those rich people can't pay with money, they can pay with land. Then the government can rent the land for cheap or even for free to the poor people.
Such a land reform was done in the capitalist Taiwan in the 1950's, and was very beneficial for the whole country.

Where the governments refuse to do that, the charitable people can buy land and rent it to the poor. Being a landlord doesn't automagically transform you into an evil person. The land can be rented for free or it can be rented for say one $US / year.
It's much better to rent the land to the poor, instead of giving them land, because once they own the land, they can lose that land in many ways: selling, extortion, blackmail, false documents and so on. Once the government or a charitable organization is renting them land, they can use that land for all their life.

There are many cases where the Western companies make agreements with corrupt governments in Africa, and then those African governments confiscate the land from the people living in villages by using force, and rents or sell it to the Western companies. If those villagers want to survive, they have to work like slaves for those Western companies: working 12 hours per day, 7 days per week, in poor conditions. On their own land! I live in Spain, and yes, there are Spanish companies doing exactly that, it was documented by the TV reporters.

How is that better than renting them land for free?

 

[NewBlizzard]

Also...one of the things that you need to realize is just how difficult it can be to help some people. There are many many places that never underwent a scientific enlightenment. They are deeply rooted in traditionalism.

They look at the way their fathers did things...and grandfathers did things...and they don't deviate from those practices. It doesn't matter if you show them a "better" way of doing something....they go back to what they've been doing for centuries.

Yet, once they have some land to work, they can fill their stomachs. That's how they were living for thousands of years.
But thanks to the efforts to "civilize" them, made by the white men, their lands were confiscated and they were sent to live in the slums in the cities, living forever in misery, and, in case they get lucky, they can work like slaves for some (Western) companies. Or they can work like slaves on the land that was once their own, for the "civilized" Western agricultural companies. This is just one such example recently documented in the Western media: Ethiopia.

 

[NewBlizzard]

Nowadaminute! I was a landlord in a poor part of town and I helped my tenants. In fact I saw that as my ministry.

If you rent the land/flats for cheap (just to cover the costs of taxes and maintenance), then you actually help a lot the tenants. They won't be victims of the real estate speculation.
The current economic crisis started from the real estate speculation, which was driving the people poor, because they had to spend all their money on paying rents or mortgages, having little left for buying the rest of the things they need. All this could have been easily avoided by renting flats at a decent price - by the government or by various associations.

You disagree with that? Fine! That's wonderful because we need diversity and debating conflicting ideas can reveal important information and it can lead to interesting conclusions. You might have some other ideas for implementing real solutions for the world's problems. And that's why we need a forum for all the people who want to share their ideas, for the people who want to debate ideas and for those who want to find others like them in order to start the projects they are interested to create and to support. So that people like you can share their own ideas.

 

[NewBlizzard]

Lovely idea, but the homeless have long term issues that cannot be solved by 'giving them houses' or 'giving them land.' Many of the homeless started out with mental health issues, many others escaped abuse and ended up on the street abusing alcohol/other drugs. Living on the street is far from conductive to good health, which means that homeless people need a great deal of health care (who will pay for that?) to get them back on their feet, along with mental health care, and drug detox programs, counseling etc.

Hello Hetta,
The homeless with mental health issues are just a tiny minority of the people in need. The vast majority of the people living in misery are living in the slums of the big cities, in refugee camps or they are exploited workers or exploited villagers.
Those homeless with mental issues are more frequent in the West. In the rest of the world, the homeless are not living in welfare systems where they can afford an erratic lifestyle and to and descend into mental illness by indulging themselves in a chaotic life. The homeless in the poor countries have to stay focused and to obey the strict rules of the street if they want to survive. I have an example:
Mole people (living in the sewage), being evicted from their warm "homes" before the NATO summit in Bucharest, 2008.

- Deep under the streets of Bucharest - in Europe, in the 21st century - there is a network of tunnels and sewers that is home to hundreds of men, women and children stricken by drug abuse HIV and TB. - link2link3link4 - video
- Meet Bruce Lee, king of Romania's tunnel underworld (video)
- Life UNDER the streets: How the diseased and destitute are forced to carve out a grim existence in the sewers of Eastern Europe

Living on the street is far from conductive to good health, which means that homeless people need a great deal of health care (who will pay for that?) to get them back on their feet, along with mental health care, and drug detox programs, counseling etc.

There are plenty of money saved in fiscal paradises and in Switzerland banks. Trillions of $US. Once the government is doing it's job, keeping those money in the country and taxing them, there will be more than enough money to pay for the medical care of those homeless people. We can all sign petitions to ask the governments to stop allowing the money to go to fiscal paradises and to Switzerland banks, and to stop hosting the organized crime from the poor countries.
So instead of trying to collect money from the charitable people in order to help those unfortunate people you talk about, we can try to go to the root of the problems, stopping the drain in the first place.

It's great to want to help, but it's a massive undertaking, which I don't believe that anyone really wants to take on board.

Nobody has to change the world on their own. There is no need for a massive undertaking. We just have to start with the beginning, that's all. And in this moment, the first step is to create a common meeting place for all the charitable people, so they can start to share their ideas and experience and to reach others like them, in order to start the charitable projects that the world really needs. So what we need is an activism/charity forum. It can be located anywhere on the internet, even as a sub-forum of this forum.
I think it's enough if we do our best in order to understand what is really important to do, if we try to find the best ideas, if we support such ideas and if we try to reach others who are doing the same or who have a predisposition for doing such things.

I am not trying to make a colossal effort, I am just trying to do my part of the job, as a human being, trying to do the right thing at the right moment, according to the best of my understanding. At this moment, I am trying to reach as many people as possible - because my consciousness tells me that I have to do that. If the entire world agree or disagree with that, in front of my consciousness I have no excuse for not doing it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yet, once they have some land to work, they can fill their stomachs. That's how they were living for thousands of years.
But thanks to the efforts to "civilize" them, made by the white men, their lands were confiscated and they were sent to live in the slums in the cities, living forever in misery, and, in case they get lucky, they can work like slaves for some (Western) companies. Or they can work like slaves on the land that was once their own, for the "civilized" Western agricultural companies. This is just one such example recently documented in the Western media: Ethiopia.

True.

“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”
― Desmond Tutu

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If you rent the land/flats for cheap (just to cover the costs of taxes and maintenance), then you actually help a lot the tenants. They won't be victims of the real estate speculation.
The current economic crisis started from the real estate speculation, which was driving the people poor, because they had to spend all their money on paying rents or mortgages, having little left for buying the rest of the things they need. All this could have been easily avoided by renting flats at a decent price - by the government or by various associations.

You disagree with that? Fine! That's wonderful because we need diversity and debating conflicting ideas can reveal important information and it can lead to interesting conclusions. You might have some other ideas for implementing real solutions for the world's problems. And that's why we need a forum for all the people who want to share their ideas, for the people who want to debate ideas and for those who want to find others like them in order to start the projects they are interested to create and to support. So that people like you can share their own ideas.

The liberals would never agree with my ideas (they are in control of the agencies that 'help' the poor). So while my ideas would make interesting conversation nothing would ever become of them. So there it is.

 

[Locutus]

Yet, once they have some land to work, they can fill their stomachs. That's how they were living for thousands of years.
But thanks to the efforts to "civilize" them, made by the white men, their lands were confiscated and they were sent to live in the slums in the cities, living forever in misery, and, in case they get lucky, they can work like slaves for some (Western) companies. Or they can work like slaves on the land that was once their own, for the "civilized" Western agricultural companies. This is just one such example recently documented in the Western media: Ethiopia.

The money grabbers don't want us farming and recycling. The very worst thing for them is human self-sufficiency. If we're contained in a state of total addiction to, and dependence on, purchased 'life' (food, utilities, clothing, housing, etc), we keep lining their pockets as per slaves.

That's why it's so much fun to stick it to the man via self-sufficiency. And, as OldWiseGuy said, it's good to be able to do for yourself. It's incredibly liberating, incredibly powerful, and adds more meaning to existence than we can dream possible in our slave state.

 

[Locutus]

It is fun to argue about however, especially if one has been successful.

I have been (successful - money wise, if nothing else), but still find the topic mind snappingly dull. I don't mind the big economics of change, but can't stand the coalface, day to day stuff. I have a friend who owns a very successful business, and has run it at a great profit for the past 20 years without ever thinking about money. And I mean that quite literally. He doesn't budget, forecast, plan, or analyse. He has no computer, no credit card or debit card facilities, and doesn't obtain receipts for his (always cash) purchases. He bought the old building in which he trades for a song, and just muddles through. His talent, or skill, is in the product he trades. He is so prodigiously clever in his field that lack of accountancy has little. if any, negative impact. Another friend is actually a degree qualified accountant (shudder), yet is barely staying afloat in the business she paid $800k for. She lacked the imagination and talent to develop her own ideas, so paid for someone else's. Now, despite three years of very careful management, she's probably going to have to sell at a huge loss.

Off topic, apologies to OP

 

[NewBlizzard]

I think in general that christian or not, people just don't have time to help. Especially in america where our lives our so fast paced. By the time we focus on anything else we tend to not notice we start a new day again. My wife came here and she can't believe how fast and busy americans are are.

The people still have free time after coming back from work and in the weekend.
But indeed, the establishment is doing it's best to keep the people busy. Making sure the prices of housing and commodities keep increasing, so the people have to work more and more just to pay their bills.
My grandfather could support the entire family of five by working alone. Today, even a family of two, both working, sometimes can hardly make it to the end of the month.
Also flooding the media with irrelevant entertainment so the people will waste their time and promoting an individualistic and selfish lifestyle and even depravity.

The very concept of the "American dream" (to be selfish, to get rich - even at the expense of others - having servants cleaning all day after you) was created and promoted by the establishment (through their subservient mainstream media) convincing the people to adopt anti-American values. Because the real American values are represented by the phrase "United we stand, divided we fall", not by the "I don't care about others, I want to get rich" mindset.

 

[Locutus]

But indeed, the establishment is doing it's best to keep the people busy. Making sure the prices of housing and commodities keep increasing, so the people have to work more and more just to pay their bills.
Flooding the media with irrelevant entertainment and promoting an individualistic and selfish lifestyle and even depravity.

The very concept of the "American dream" (to be selfish, to get rich - even at the expense of others - having servants cleaning all day after you) was created and promoted by the establishment, convincing the people to adopt anti-American values. Because the real American values are represented by the phrase "United we stand, divided we fall", not by the "I don't care about others, I want to get rich" mindset.

The establishment being the corporations who run the slave trade. It all started in the 1950s. Perhaps if there'd been two decades of flower children trying to fix it all, instead of one, we might not be the slaves we are today. They did try really hard though, god love them. We were amazing for a few short years, then we retreated back into easy complacency.

 

[NewBlizzard]

I actually start to feel something like claustrophobia if the topic of economics crops up. It's like being made to watch paint dry, but more irritating.

That's because the establishment and the mainstream media are very efficient in confusing the public. They always maintain confusion by flooding the media with claims or suggestions like:
- Speculation is good because it creates jobs!
- Immigrant exploitation is good because it creates economic growth!
- Importing goods made by slaves in China, Bangladesh, Thailand etc is good because it helps economic growth!
- Fiscal paradises are very good because they stimulate investments and that creates jobs!
- We have to live on credit, there is no other way to stimulate the economy than to live on credit and to make more and more debt!
- We didn't police the companies against price speculation because we expected that the companies will police themselves! Example: Hans Eichel, Germany's finance minister about the price increase at the adoption of Euro: "We relied too much on the fact that retailers would police themselves and that was possibly a mistake.

It's hard not to feel claustrophobic/asphyxiation when you get confusing messages like those if you try to make sense of how things work.
However, they can't confuse everybody, and for example in this recently published article in The Guardian where the author plays the same kind of miserable clownery, suggesting that we have to live on credit, all of the answers from the public are negative, telling to the author how wrong he is.
Is Britain a nation of debt bingers? History tells a different story], 12 January 2016, Aditya Chakrabortty
an example of reader comment (and just to make it clear: that's not my comment):
"....and when housing debt-max is reached what might you expect to see?
Grossly inflated property prices, once thriving restaurants half-empty, high streets in crisis, charity shops everywhere, supermarkets in trouble, discounters and pound shops expanding, food banks opening up.

Sound familiar?

We are now at debt-max with interest rates at an historical low and there's only one direction to go in from here. Debt might have been 'fashionable' in earlier times (for a chosen few) but today it has had the effect of locking up the entire system so that only more debt can solve the too-much-debt problem."

Money stolen from the tax payer and from the exploited people in the third world, saved into fiscal paradises and then being used in order to pay those "economists" who are ready to eat any amount of dung they are asked to, and to play such miserable clownery. That's how the system "works".

I'm somewhat afraid to watch BBC or CNN for example, for health concerns. Hearing too many such lies really makes me sick. After all, every human being has their limits.

 

[Locutus]

Well yeah, there is all that Bilderbergish stuff. But that's not the stuff I find claustrophobic. What I detest is the minutiae of day to day household economics.

 

[NewBlizzard]

And well done on not owning a car - they're cursed 'necessity'. We still have one here, and it troubles me no end. Unnecessary wealth and luxury ... couldn't agree more! We gave up what others consider basic entitlements (air conditioning, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, microwave oven, hair dryer, clothes dryer, 'system' supplied power and water, big tv, air travel, etc) years ago, because they seemed to us to be very costly in terms of the planet, humanity, and our own health and sanity. We're now able to dedicate more of our funds to causes as a result.

Well, I think for most of us Europeans is very easy not to have a car. Can't judge the people in Canada/US/Australia since most of them actually have to use a car, unless they live in big cities.
I'm far from being that conscious with electricity consumption like you are. I am using a computer and most of the time it's on more than 12 hours / day. Never used dishwasher, air conditioning, or hair dryer though. I was using microwave when I was eating cooked food and I am using a clothes dryer at work (rarely though). I traveled by air less than five times and not going to do it again anytime soon.
It looks to me a bit exaggerated not to use even a vacuum cleaner though. I don't have one and I don't use since the floor is ceramic and not using carpets but I think that, if the governments would do some better investments, they could produce cheap, environment-friendly electricity (more solar and wind power). And they would produce cheap nuclear fusion electricity, if they really wanted it but I'm afraid the current Western political elite wants to dry up the oil reserves first and only after that they will start the nuclear fusion engines. But of course it's always good to reduce the electricity and energy consumption.
As for the extra money, instead of investing it in unnecessary luxury, it can always be invested in various causes or research. If I would have huge amounts of extra money, I would invest most of it into open source hardware research and development, like for example the Open Source Ecology project.

 

[Locutus]

Well, I think for most of us Europeans is very easy not to have a car. Can't judge the people in Canada/US/Australia since most of them actually have to use a car, unless they live in big cities.
I'm far from being that conscious with electricity consumption like you are. I am using a computer and most of the time it's on more than 12 hours / day. Never used dishwasher, air conditioning, or hair dryer though. I was using microwave when I was eating cooked food and I am using a clothes dryer at work (rarely though). I traveled by air less than five times and not going to do it again anytime soon.
It looks to me a bit exaggerated not to use even a vacuum cleaner though. I don't have one and I don't use since the floor is ceramic and not using carpets but I think that, if the governments would do some better investments, they could produce cheap, environment-friendly electricity (more solar and wind power). And they would produce cheap nuclear fusion electricity, if they really wanted it but I'm afraid the current Western political elite wants to dry up the oil reserves first and only after that they will start the nuclear fusion engines. But of course it's always good to reduce the electricity and energy consumption.
As for the extra money, instead of investing it in unnecessary luxury, it can always be invested in various causes or research. If I would have huge amounts of extra money, I would invest most of it into open source hardware research and development, like for example the Open Source Ecology project.

Yes, cars are necessary in some parts of the world. Or at least they are if you need to get kids to school and/or yourself to work. Regarding power, we use a fair amount but make our own. We're off grid here, so we're only limited by weather. I don't use a vacuum cleaner because like a dishwasher, it seems a pointless and problematic 'labour saving' device. It has to be stored, repaired, replaced, cleaned, etc. I can do as good a job on my bare timber floors with a really good broom and mop. Better, actually, because the mop collects fine dust and dust mites. Plus, it gives more meaning to the task, and keeps me fit.

Agree, surplus funds find a welcome in causes.