Where babies go that die in the womb?

[stone]

I was searching for something incriminating against satan and "stumbled" upon these words from the prophet Job;


Job 3:


11 " Why did I not die at birth, Come forth from the womb and expire? 12 "Why did the knees receive me, And why the breasts, that I should suck? 13 "For now I would have lain down and been quiet; I would have slept then, I would have been at rest, 14 With kings and {with} counselors of the earth, Who rebuilt ruins for themselves; 15 Or with princes who had gold, Who were filling their houses {with} silver. 16 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light. 17 "There the wicked cease from raging, And there the weary are at rest. 18 "The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster. 19 "The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master. 20 "Why is light given to him who suffers, And life to the bitter of soul, 21 Who long for death, but there is none, And dig for it more than for hidden treasures, 22 Who rejoice greatly, {And} exult when they find the grave? 23 "{Why is light given} to a man whose way is hidden, And whom God has hedged in? 24 "For my groaning comes at the sight of my food, And my cries pour out like water. 25 "For what I fear comes upon me, And what I dread befalls me. 26 "I am not at ease, nor am I quiet, And I am not at rest, but turmoil comes."


***

This is the same rest the prophet Samual spoke to Saul of being at when Saul had that witch channel to Samual and asked him about why god does not speak to him any longer.

 

[stone]

1 Now it came about in those days that the Philistines gathered their armed camps for war, to fight against Israel. And Achish said to David, "Know assuredly that you will go out with me in the camp, you and your men." 2 David said to Achish, "Very well, you shall know what your servant can do." So Achish said to David, "Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life." 3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had removed from the land those who were mediums and spiritists. 4 So the Philistines gathered together and came and camped in Shunem; and Saul gathered all Israel together and they camped in Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the camp of the Philistines, he was afraid and his heart trembled greatly. 6 When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by prophets.
7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a woman who is a medium at En-dor." 8 Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, " Conjure up for me, please, and bring up for me whom I shall name to you." 9 But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?" 10 Saul vowed to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing." 11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul." 13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth." 14 He said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." 16 Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has departed from you and has become your adversary? 17 "The LORD has done accordingly as He spoke through me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, to David. 18 "As you did not obey the LORD and did not execute His fierce wrath on Amalek, so the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 "Moreover the LORD will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines, therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the LORD will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!" 20 Then Saul immediately fell full length upon the ground and was very afraid because of the words of Samuel; also there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day and all night. 21 The woman came to Saul and saw that he was terrified, and said to him, "Behold, your maidservant has obeyed you, and I have taken my life in my hand and have listened to your words which you spoke to me. 22 "So now also, please listen to the voice of your maidservant, and let me set a piece of bread before you that {you may} eat and have strength when you go on {your} way." 23 But he refused and said, " I will not eat." However, his servants together with the woman urged him, and he listened to them. So he arose from the ground and sat on the bed. 24 The woman had a fattened calf in the house, and she quickly slaughtered it; and she took flour, kneaded it and baked unleavened bread from it. 25 She brought {it} before Saul and his servants, and they ate. Then they arose and went away that night.
​

 

[stone]

you guys got anymore unsolved mysteries?

 

[BAFRIEND]

We don't where they go and neither does the Church.

 

[stone]

In Revelations, the martyrs speak to Jesus and say, "how much longer Lord" and he says to them to rest longer.

They're resting in peace. Sounds like a comfortable place.

I just proved it with scripture.

 

[BAFRIEND]

In Revelations, the martyrs speak to Jesus and say, "how much longer Lord" and he says to them to rest longer.

They're resting in peace. Sounds like a comfortable place.

I just proved it with scripture.

You did not prove anything.

The RCC put limbo to rest and aknowledges to not have an answer to this metaphysical question other than to state that hope for the best is not mis-placed.

 

[stone]

A place of rest is not Limbo, it's a place of rest. And how can a baby that never had a chance on earth be judged? Looks like they get into the kingdom among those theological lines.

This is proof also to pro-choicers that abortion is definately, without a dought, MURDER.

It is proof, regardless if you want to believe it or not.

Limbo sounds like something dangling from a tree branch.

anyrate, moving on...

 

[BAFRIEND]

A place of rest is not Limbo, it's a place of rest. And how can a baby that never had a chance on earth be judged? Looks like they get into the kingdom among those theological lines.

This is proof also to pro-choicers that abortion is definately, without a dought, MURDER.

It is proof, regardless if you want to believe it or not.

Limbo sounds like something dangling from a tree branch.

anyrate, moving on...

I could quote scripture stating that your "proof" runs afoul on the teachings regarding original sin and baptism.

 

[stone]

I could quote scripture stating that your "proof" runs afoul on the teachings regarding original sin and baptism.

i double dog dare you

 

[Rhamiel]

I still think Limbo is probable, just because the pope does not like it, as I understand it, it is just his personal view on Limbo and not officail teaching, it is still a theory that some like and some do not like

 

[Davidnic]

"The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die without Being Baptized."

A quote from this document:

Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision. We emphasize that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us. We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy.

What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.

 

[stone]

and what is contradictory?

 

[stone]

maybe were not on the same page, i said that die in the womb, there is a difference between those that are delivered in birth and those that are not.

Whatever happens to those that are not, can be summed up in one simple word, regardless of how theologions drool over the complexity theyve made scriptures out to be:

JUDGEMENT

 

[Assisi]

maybe were not on the same page, i said that die in the womb, there is a difference between those that are delivered in birth and those that are not.

I disagree. What difference do you see that could affect them after death?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I believe that just as unbaptized people have a chance of going to heaven by God's mercy...so do unbaptized infants who never sinned...so do babies who died in the womb or were aborted. They are fully human beings and have souls. I believe they go to heaven, and they have nothing to be judged for, they have no personal sin. I believe their original sin is taken away by God, they have no resistance to this as they are not corrupted by this world.

This is only my guess...

 

[SolomonVII]

"The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die without Being Baptized."

A quote from this document:

Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision. We emphasize that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us. We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy.

What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.

The Church must tread delicately here. If she states unequivocally that the unborn will be saved, there will be people who actually rejoice over such deaths. It will be like a free ticket to heaven instead of the grave matter that it really is.

Not for their salvation, but for our own is how my own personal devotion to the unborn goes.

 

[D'Ann]

There is no dogma on where babies go if they die in the womb or after they are born. It's an unkown mystery, but as Catholics, we are allowed to believe that they are in a peaceful and loving and restful place. We just don't know for sure if they are in heaven or not, but they could be in an inbetween heaven and earth, like limbo or something.

I actually have some stuff on this subject that I can post here, but it's a bit painful for me because this issue hits really too close to my own heart.