When, not if, they come for your guns...

[Zugzwang]

If they come to take your guns and you refuse...well....there's always Jail Ministry! lol

But if you get yourself killed fighting them, then your time is done here on earth and you can't do much good there.

many of us don't get to choose how we go out, if i have to go out fighting for what i believe in, i'd consider that a privilege.

having said THAT though, remember i am looking for a discussion, iron sharpens iron, although i am leaning a certain way, (obviously) it doesn't mean what i believe is written in stone yet, which is why i wanted to hash it out sort of speak.

god bless.

 

[BenAdam]

Just as seriously i would suggest to look into what exactly it meant to be a "slave" at that time, it doesn't mean what it means today, nor does it carry the connotation that we put on it.

Many slaves became lifelong servants of the family, and were given an armband showing their worth and status in their household. furthermore, and correct me if i'm wrong, but no slave was held longer than 7 years due to the year of jubilee. all debts were considered paid in full at that time, so no one was a slave longer than that.

now, having said THAT, do YOU believe that you will be treated that kindly and fairly if you are put in such a position TODAY where you would willingly give up your freedom for the rest of your life b/c the govt. is so "fair and kind?" (not being snide, just trying to stress a point is all.)

god bless.

I'm not talking about Jewish slaves, but slaves in Paul's time that were generally owned by Romans, Greeks, etc. Philemon was such an owner and slaves like that were much more in line (in many respects) to what we think of as slavery. BTW, the Jubilee was every 50 years.

I certainly would not want to give up my freedom. I believe strongly that the Government does not grant rights, but is put in place by the people (or God hopefully) to guard our rights. I believe that Government is to be a servant of the people, not the other way around. However we live in a world where people empower their government to be a provider for them. One of my favorite quotes is:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Having a government that gives rather than protects will inevitably lead to totalitarianism.

 

[Zugzwang]

i will read up on what you have said, and respond later.

thank you.

 

[probinson]

Re: Servants obeying their masters;

1 Peter 2:17-20 (AMP)
Show respect for all men [treat them honorably]. Love the brotherhood (the Christian fraternity of which Christ is the Head). Reverence God. Honor the emperor. [You who are] household servants, be submissive to your masters with all [proper] respect, not only to those who are kind and considerate and reasonable, but also to those who are surly (overbearing, unjust, and crooked). For one is regarded favorably (is approved, acceptable, and thankworthy) if, as in the sight of God, he endures the pain of unjust suffering. [After all] what kind of glory [is there in it] if, when you do wrong and are punished for it, you take it patiently? But if you bear patiently with suffering [which results] when you do right and that is undeserved, it is acceptable and pleasing to God.
​

 

[hislegacy]

I find this very ignorant.

Then I would suggest you get out of your emotions and reactions to a tin foil hat website and seek God.

I heard it on the radio, came home, looked it up, and posted the first video of it i saw on google, for crying out loud how is ron paul tin foil hat?

Stop implying inferences that don't exist, geesh.

I guess one could say, there is just as much evidence that he, (Ron Paul), is a tin hat person as there is supporting the conspiracy theories of internment camps and gun confiscation.

You said :

What is the spirit telling me? I honestly can't discern this at the moment, my emotions cloud my judgment currently,

Now, are we supposed to be led by our emotions, or the Spirit? You yourself just admitted that you are not discerning at the moment and that your emotions are clouding your judgment.

You opened the thread like gun confiscation is indeed an established fact.

"When, not if, they come for your guns"

So, will you be led off to the FEMA camps, or stand your ground and fight whoever tries to enable this?

Perhaps you should follow your own words.

Stop implying inferences that don't exist, geesh.

I swore and oath to defend this country, from enemies domestic and abroad. I'm all about this country and believe it's the best place on earth to live. I'm honored to be a citizen.

The Christian, whether at war or peace, is first and foremost to hear from God - our supreme Commander in Chief. If your emotions cloud your judgment to the point that you cannot discern the voice of God, you are in a place that will most likely fail.

 

[BereanTodd]

"render to god what is god's, and render to caesar which is caesar's."
(Seems jesus had a passing interest in politics, at least in the day to day aspect.)

Paying taxes to the government and submitting to (and praying for) our rulers is the extent of the NT Biblical commands regarding citizenship in the nations of this world.

Now go read Hebrews 11, and focus on what those people (in particular Abraham and the unamed martyrs near the end) are praised for. We are aliens here in this world. I was born and raised in America, but I am an illegal immigrant here, hiding amongst this culture. My citizenship is in the heavenly kingdom. In my time here I will pray for my government, I will pay and give what is required of me (taxes or whatever), and I will submit to their laws and regulations in so much as they do not conflict with a biblical command or principle.

However, I will not participate in nor condone the misguided christians who spend millions and millions of dollars, and pour in countless hours in political lobying and involvment, when that money and time could be so much better put to use in reaching the world for the Gospel of Christ.

You can not legislate morality, and you will not legislate people into the kingdom. You won't even legislate peace for yourself forever - we are told there will be troubles and persecutions in this world. Store up your treasures not in the things of this world (i.e. political positions and haggling) but rather in the heavenly things.

I own guns, I love shooting and hunting. But get your eyes on the prise, and run the race to win it. We are not here for this world, and we are NOT Americans. We are illegal immigrants, hidden amongst this culture.

 

[Giver]

I don’t own any guns. Which isn’t really the question anyway.

I believe that Satan uses hypothetical situations to threaten people. His hope is they will come up with excuses to not obey God’s Word. So people will then prepare for the worse case circumstances.

Jesus told us that he would take care of us. I will trust that Jesus’ will is going to be done.

 

[Alpine]

Just as seriously i would suggest to look into what exactly it meant to be a "slave" at that time, it doesn't mean what it means today, nor does it carry the connotation that we put on it.

Many slaves became lifelong servants of the family, and were given an armband showing their worth and status in their household. furthermore, and correct me if i'm wrong, but no slave was held longer than 7 years due to the year of jubilee. all debts were considered paid in full at that time, so no one was a slave longer than that.

1) There are few records that even indicate that the year of Jubilee was actually practiced very often in Jewish culture if at all.

2) Pagan slavery was on the whole just as barbaric as slavery in recent times. Slaves were property and their lives meaningless to most owners. If a slave upset their master he had every right to have the life of the slave terminated.Of course some slaves were like servants, but most labored in fields all day long and some were sex slaves for their masters. There was nothing pleasant about it.

 

[sebastian]

so we we're wrong to stop hitler? It's the same thing, standing on the line to stop tyranny so even further worse things aren't allowed to continue.

the bible doesn't say you're not allowed to defend yourself, it says turn the other cheek if an individual slights you, not if your government tries to suppress your rights. (and by implication tries worse things after the fact.)

Ah good old Hitler, making conversations bloody ridiculous sinse 1939.

and anyway, the bible says to submit to the government as God is the ruler over every kingdom. most of us in the west haven't a clue.

and who is behind the spirit of fear? God or Satan? put your faith in your gun and you will die by your gun. put your faith in God and you will never die.

 

[Deba]

Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires.
But on what did we rest the creations of our genius?
Upon force.
Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him.
~Napoleon Bonaparte

 

[JimB]

If they come for my guns they will have a hard time finding them. I don’t own any. I just don’t feel the need to kill things. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight.” (John 18.36)

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. ​

 

[nephilimiyr]

I voted other because I have no guns, but ask me what I'd do if they come for my Bibles!

 

[EyezOFire]

No.

Jones is a loud mouth, who has painted himself (on purpose) as "one of those kind of guys". He could be right about everything, and mainstream wouldn't take him seriously.

(And how come contractions keep showing up as misspelled words?)

Anyway, point is, i've noticed a very escapist mentality where alot of ppl think before ANY hard times happen at all we're just gonna "fly away", and while i believe in the rapture, there's no guarantee that we're not gonna experience some serious harsh times before we go home.

There are several vet groups looking for stuff to go down, look how they were treated at the RND & DNC. (Oh wait, you can't, youtube yanked those) Basically no matter how you feel about "the continuing fascism growing in this country", no one seriously believes that our own troops will fire on its own civilians...

but foreign troops would have no qualms whatsoever.

I'd have to disagree with you concerning Alex- I dont think he's trying to be something- I think he's just being himself, and standing for what he believes in. Whether he's right or wrong or whatever his motives are could be debated for years. I personally dont think he's in it to make a buck. That's my opinion..

 

[Zugzwang]

I'm not talking about Jewish slaves, but slaves in Paul's time that were generally owned by Romans, Greeks, etc. Philemon was such an owner and slaves like that were much more in line (in many respects) to what we think of as slavery. BTW, the Jubilee was every 50 years.

I certainly would not want to give up my freedom. I believe strongly that the Government does not grant rights, but is put in place by the people (or God hopefully) to guard our rights. I believe that Government is to be a servant of the people, not the other way around. However we live in a world where people empower their government to be a provider for them. One of my favorite quotes is:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Having a government that gives rather than protects will inevitably lead to totalitarianism.

i've had a couple of days to think about this, (I wasn't putting you off) and my main conclusion to your question is witnessing, much the same reason that a wife should stay with an unsaved husband if he hasn't committed adultery against her. maybe the slave, being obedient to both god and "master" might bring another one into the kingdom...

however...we have that pesky bunch of ppl called "abolitionists" that were saved, and obviously knew the bible better than most ppl today, help slaves run from their masters, despite what Paul said.

what changed?

obviously the masters had no qualms about slaves, but the north helped out anyway. furthermore, in the verse about adultery, what if you're being beat up, should you stay? the bible doesn't mention anything else BUT adultery, so why shouldn't you?

i'm sounding asinine, not my intent, just trying to make a point here. obviously i don't condone slavery or spousal abuse, but the point remains: we were given rights, by God, (according to our forefathers), and these rights were set in our nations most precious document. when the govt. doesn't obey it's own laws concerning itself, it is, imho, in a state of fascism. an unlawful order does NOT have to be obeyed, shouldn't be obeyed. it didn't work for the nazi's, and shouldn't work here.

i have more to add, but i wanted to get your post out of the way first.

thanks for making me think.

 

[Zugzwang]

i've decided against my own thread, (painfully I might add) and come to a conclusion:
through some prayer and soul-searching i'm changing my vote.

i hasten to add that it wasn't by anyone's comments here, i'm sorry, i just don't agree with what most of you said, i still don't, in principle.

what made me change my whole outlook on this thing was the Tiller case, i confess, i was all right with it, at first. here was a guy, performing late term abortions (something even most of his colleagues doesn't support, i guess they took their oath a lil more seriously than tiller did "do no harm") who, as it turns out, was performing ILLEGAL abortions under the states guidelines. (I saw this on youtube featuring bill o'reily)

note: i can't stand o'reily, and i didn't get my info from him, it was his guest that stated this fact. He said you need a medical reason to do what tiller did, and basically (in so many words) the governor was turning a blind eye, but now "they're serious this time", and tiller was libel for what he was doing, but i digress...

while this whole thing was going on, i saw so many ppl "out for blood", it just didn't feel right, so i was getting my meds refilled, and i had AFR on the radio, and this host was saying "what happened to love your enemies?" what happened to "vengence is mine sayeth the lord?" do we just pick and choose scripture at will, or only when it suits us? etc.

it was a smack in the face to me, and i realized i made a grievous error, and needed to repent, my emotions got the better of me.

(btw, i made that ABUNDANTLY clear when i posted this thread, i was just trying to be honest and forthright, having ppl "calling me on it" when it was something i had already copped to, is in my opinion, bad form, and in poor taste.)

anyway, that's it, thank you for those that voted and responded.

 

[PastorJoey]

Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. We're just passing through this world anyway. Better to be martyred for Jesus, maybe that way win some of the enemy for the Lord when they see your courage in death. Death is a victory.

I know we are to love our enemies, just dont let my enemy put me in a situation where I must choose whether to love him or my family.

 

[Leimeng]

I voted other. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

BTW, did you guys see my new profile pic?

~ I must say that a woman and her guns is truely a beautiful thing. God surely did bless your husband!
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[Leimeng]

~ Jesus told his disciples that if they did not have a sword (an offensive and defensive weapon which was equivelent to a high tech military firearm of today) that they were to sell their coats and buy one.
~ Christianity is a violent ideology which serves the Prince of Peace.
~ Jesus was not some effete milquetoastesque fairy but the King of Kings, the Captain of the Hosts.
~ In the US, Ceasar is the people, as much as the fascist left does not like that fact.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[sebastian]

i've decided against my own thread, (painfully I might add) and come to a conclusion:
through some prayer and soul-searching i'm changing my vote.

i hasten to add that it wasn't by anyone's comments here, i'm sorry, i just don't agree with what most of you said, i still don't, in principle.

what made me change my whole outlook on this thing was the Tiller case, i confess, i was all right with it, at first. here was a guy, performing late term abortions (something even most of his colleagues doesn't support, i guess they took their oath a lil more seriously than tiller did "do no harm") who, as it turns out, was performing ILLEGAL abortions under the states guidelines. (I saw this on youtube featuring bill o'reily)

note: i can't stand o'reily, and i didn't get my info from him, it was his guest that stated this fact. He said you need a medical reason to do what tiller did, and basically (in so many words) the governor was turning a blind eye, but now "they're serious this time", and tiller was libel for what he was doing, but i digress...

while this whole thing was going on, i saw so many ppl "out for blood", it just didn't feel right, so i was getting my meds refilled, and i had AFR on the radio, and this host was saying "what happened to love your enemies?" what happened to "vengence is mine sayeth the lord?" do we just pick and choose scripture at will, or only when it suits us? etc.

it was a smack in the face to me, and i realized i made a grievous error, and needed to repent, my emotions got the better of me.

(btw, i made that ABUNDANTLY clear when i posted this thread, i was just trying to be honest and forthright, having ppl "calling me on it" when it was something i had already copped to, is in my opinion, bad form, and in poor taste.)

anyway, that's it, thank you for those that voted and responded.

right or wrong, your a humble guy. respect.

 

[BenAdam]

i've decided against my own thread, (painfully I might add) and come to a conclusion:
through some prayer and soul-searching i'm changing my vote.

i hasten to add that it wasn't by anyone's comments here, i'm sorry, i just don't agree with what most of you said, i still don't, in principle.

what made me change my whole outlook on this thing was the Tiller case, i confess, i was all right with it, at first. here was a guy, performing late term abortions (something even most of his colleagues doesn't support, i guess they took their oath a lil more seriously than tiller did "do no harm") who, as it turns out, was performing ILLEGAL abortions under the states guidelines. (I saw this on youtube featuring bill o'reily)

note: i can't stand o'reily, and i didn't get my info from him, it was his guest that stated this fact. He said you need a medical reason to do what tiller did, and basically (in so many words) the governor was turning a blind eye, but now "they're serious this time", and tiller was libel for what he was doing, but i digress...

while this whole thing was going on, i saw so many ppl "out for blood", it just didn't feel right, so i was getting my meds refilled, and i had AFR on the radio, and this host was saying "what happened to love your enemies?" what happened to "vengence is mine sayeth the lord?" do we just pick and choose scripture at will, or only when it suits us? etc.

it was a smack in the face to me, and i realized i made a grievous error, and needed to repent, my emotions got the better of me.

(btw, i made that ABUNDANTLY clear when i posted this thread, i was just trying to be honest and forthright, having ppl "calling me on it" when it was something i had already copped to, is in my opinion, bad form, and in poor taste.)

anyway, that's it, thank you for those that voted and responded.

I do not condone the murder of this doctor. Yet I think he made his own bed. Not saying he deserved it, but you mess with fire and you are going to get burned, cause and effect, sowing and reaping, whatever you want to call it.