so in youth class sunday our teacher was teaching us that when you die you dont go right to heaven. you stay in your grave untill the 2ed comming of jesus when you are taken up to heaven. im so confused and i always thought when you die you are judged and then go to heaven or hell. if you could clear this up and help me under stand it would be the best ever!
When do we go to heaven?
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Yea it varies depending on the denomination. Thats a good question. I would like to agree with your Sunday school teacher. The only thing I disagree on is why would someone go to hell and then they get out of hell to be judged in front of Christ's throne and then thrown back in hell again. Now, thats something I can't make any sense out of.
I would like to think we are not resurrected until the Great Judgment. But then again hell and the lake of fire are two different places (so maybe people are thrown in hell after dying and then thrown into the lake of fire later after being judged). So, again, thats another thing to consider.
Tricky!! Hope I helped...probably didn't....lol.
I would like to think we are not resurrected until the Great Judgment. But then again hell and the lake of fire are two different places (so maybe people are thrown in hell after dying and then thrown into the lake of fire later after being judged). So, again, thats another thing to consider.
Tricky!! Hope I helped...probably didn't....lol.
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I think it's hard to fully contemplate because of the multi-dimentional space/time/infinity aspect that our brains simply can't fully grasp. Kinda like God can be every where all the time.
Unless of course one is a quantum physicist...
...then there may be some small inkling...
We know the battle is already won...yet the spiritual battle is being waged right now and to us...we are still waiting for the Lord to return.
We have a tendency to put our spatial and time retraints on spiritual things.
I believe we go to be with the Lord immediately upon dying...
Luk 23:42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
2Co 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
2Co 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Php 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.
Php 1:23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
I don't fully understand it...yet I believe it.
Perhaps we're all raised again for the Judgment...the dead in Christ first...then those who are alive...but again...how much meaning does time or sequence of events have in eternity? I'm thinking...not a whole big bunch.
Unless of course one is a quantum physicist...
...then there may be some small inkling...We know the battle is already won...yet the spiritual battle is being waged right now and to us...we are still waiting for the Lord to return.
We have a tendency to put our spatial and time retraints on spiritual things.
I believe we go to be with the Lord immediately upon dying...
Luk 23:42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
2Co 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
2Co 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Php 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.
Php 1:23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
I don't fully understand it...yet I believe it.
Perhaps we're all raised again for the Judgment...the dead in Christ first...then those who are alive...but again...how much meaning does time or sequence of events have in eternity? I'm thinking...not a whole big bunch.
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it helps. its just if thats the case and we dont go right to heaven. then no one is in heaven. moses the deciples EVERYONE that has die other than jesus are still on earth. unless their is a loop hole some where. and thats the part i dont get....its prolly just because i always thought u went stright to heaven or hell when you die, and i dont understand yet?
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Jesus Kingdom is coming on the earth. Lets take a look at psalm 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. :13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. :14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
We have to understand that theres two ressurrection, let go to revelation ch20: :1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
After Jesus reign for a thousand years then comes the second resurrection and the Fathers Kingdom.Now lets go a little further and in mind this is way after the great tribulation.Lets read a little about the Judgement, if your name is not written in the booklife then its in the book of deathLets read revelation ch20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. :13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. :14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
We have to understand that theres two ressurrection, let go to revelation ch20: :1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
After Jesus reign for a thousand years then comes the second resurrection and the Fathers Kingdom.Now lets go a little further and in mind this is way after the great tribulation.Lets read a little about the Judgement, if your name is not written in the booklife then its in the book of deathLets read revelation ch20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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That's a good question and something my husband and I have debated several times. I do prefer to think of my parents in Heaven, rather than still on earth, restless. But hubby thinks all dead are still on earth and will be taken to Heaven (or "Hell", we don't believe in Hell in the same way as most people seem to do, but that's for another discussion) after the day of judgement.
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Bellicus
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I notice that the English version of the bible never mention the Kingdom of Dead (witch is in the Norwegian version) but instead uses the word "hell" in these places. The only place I can remember this being referred to in the English bible, is when it mentions Jesus on his travel to the Heart of the Earth the 3 days he was dead.
In the Norwegian version of the bible, the world Kingdom of Death or more directly translated: The Death Reich (Dødsriket) is mentioned in the OT when the bible speaks about life after death. I'm thinking this is something the same as Hades, or the Norse "Hel" (where the word hell is coming from). Just a place where the dead souls is until the day of judgment.
In the Norwegian edition it is mentioned in the Reveleations that this place will be cast into the lake of fire along with the death it self. And hell in general is only mentioned in reference to punishment, not to dying.
And when reading the bible, it is pretty clear that no one will be cast into the lake of fire aka hell until the day of judgment. So the place the dead go and witch the english bible describes as hell, must be some kind of wrong translation.
In the Norwegian version of the bible, the world Kingdom of Death or more directly translated: The Death Reich (Dødsriket) is mentioned in the OT when the bible speaks about life after death. I'm thinking this is something the same as Hades, or the Norse "Hel" (where the word hell is coming from). Just a place where the dead souls is until the day of judgment.
In the Norwegian edition it is mentioned in the Reveleations that this place will be cast into the lake of fire along with the death it self. And hell in general is only mentioned in reference to punishment, not to dying.
And when reading the bible, it is pretty clear that no one will be cast into the lake of fire aka hell until the day of judgment. So the place the dead go and witch the english bible describes as hell, must be some kind of wrong translation.
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Hell is the same thing as the lake of fire. Sheol, the grave, hades, that place refers to where the unrepentant go when they die before judgment. Something of a container of the souls of those who die without Christ. That then is overturned into the lake of fire at the day of Judgment.
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revrobor
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We don't go to Heaven. Heaven is God's domain (headquarters so to speak where the records and rewards are kept). A simple reading of Rev. 21 makes it clear that our eternal home is on the New Earth God will create along with the new heaven (space) after the Millennial Kingdom and Great Tribulation. Today when a Believer dies he goes to Paradise (the holding place for the righteous dead) to await the judgment. Remember what Jesus told the thief on the cross ("You shall be with me in Paradise"). Sadly people have confused Paradise with Heaven for a long time. When Jesus returns to establish His Millennial Kingdom those who have rejected Him up to that point will be removed from this Earth and be held in Hades. After the Judgments God will create our eternal home and the New Jerusalem will come down from heaven (but not to the Earth, it will be suspended in the new heavens) and those who have ultimately rejected God's gift of salvation will be sent to Hell (Gehenna).
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Ecclesiastes 9:5
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]For the [/FONT]living know that they shall die[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]: [/FONT]but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman].
For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.
For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.
[/FONT]
Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave. Why does he continue to say "under the sun"? He's said it twice. We will find out a little later.
[/FONT]Ecclesiastes 9:10
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; [/FONT]for ther is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does
the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.
Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.
[/FONT]the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.
Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.
Psalms 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish
.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 2
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jellybean99
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Ecclesiastes is the 'black sheep' of the Bible, and is not recommended for bedtime reading. Ecclesiastes, for a good part of the book, presents a morbid view of life from the temporal side of creation rather than the eternal perspective.
It is this bleak view of life that King Solomon uses as rhetoric in order to prompt the reader to seek out the living God before life on earth becomes so dark that all hope seems lost.
I have seen the burden God has laid on (wo)men. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of (wo)men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (Ecc. 3:10:11)
In the temporal realm everything is so compartmentalized that we see heaven as a place rather than a state of being.
Recall the passage in Luke 16:19-31 where the barrier between spirits of the dead is represented as a chasm. One side has the expectation of doom, while the other side is filled with hope and anticipation. The chasm is more a state of being than a physical barrier.
Heaven is a continuum that extends from eternity to the dust of the earth and everyplace (and time) in between. Recall Jesus' words about the Kingdom of God in Luke 17:20,21.
The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.
The converging kingdoms of God and Heaven are similar in nature and will become one at the dawn of the New Jerusalem.
It is this bleak view of life that King Solomon uses as rhetoric in order to prompt the reader to seek out the living God before life on earth becomes so dark that all hope seems lost.
I have seen the burden God has laid on (wo)men. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of (wo)men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (Ecc. 3:10:11)
In the temporal realm everything is so compartmentalized that we see heaven as a place rather than a state of being.
Recall the passage in Luke 16:19-31 where the barrier between spirits of the dead is represented as a chasm. One side has the expectation of doom, while the other side is filled with hope and anticipation. The chasm is more a state of being than a physical barrier.
Heaven is a continuum that extends from eternity to the dust of the earth and everyplace (and time) in between. Recall Jesus' words about the Kingdom of God in Luke 17:20,21.
The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.
The converging kingdoms of God and Heaven are similar in nature and will become one at the dawn of the New Jerusalem.
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I think understand what you are saying, we should look at the spiritual side of heaven
which is in us... That comes with the knowledge God for example.
Lets go into John 3; I want make point here, Lets go to the answer that Jesus gave
Nicodemus, verse; 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Now, people insist to beleive that when they died or people they known have died,
they go to heaven.
Jesus is explaining to nicodemus, that you have to be born again to see the Kingdom
of God. Now this is a physical thing, and remind you this is talking about the Father"s
Kingdom. Now Jesus Kingdom will still have flesh and blood, but the Father"s KIngdom
their will be know flesh and blood. Jesus Kingdom is the first resurrection. Lets go to
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
After that comes the Father"s Kingdom. Lets go back to John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Water: meaning the word of God or having knowledge and understanding also being baptize in the name of Jesus, which actually goes first.
Spirit: Lets go to 1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. :
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
I think this is what you were saying.
which is in us... That comes with the knowledge God for example.
Lets go into John 3; I want make point here, Lets go to the answer that Jesus gave
Nicodemus, verse; 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Now, people insist to beleive that when they died or people they known have died,
they go to heaven.
Jesus is explaining to nicodemus, that you have to be born again to see the Kingdom
of God. Now this is a physical thing, and remind you this is talking about the Father"s
Kingdom. Now Jesus Kingdom will still have flesh and blood, but the Father"s KIngdom
their will be know flesh and blood. Jesus Kingdom is the first resurrection. Lets go to
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
After that comes the Father"s Kingdom. Lets go back to John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Water: meaning the word of God or having knowledge and understanding also being baptize in the name of Jesus, which actually goes first.
Spirit: Lets go to 1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. :
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
I think this is what you were saying.
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