When did Satan fall?

[tonychanyt]

Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

I think the serpent was a manifestation of Satan. He tempted/tested people on earth. When he was not, he accused people in heaven before God, face to face. Satan spoke to God in Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Strong's Hebrew: 7854. שָׂטָן (satan) — 27 Occurrences

The word means adversary. He accused Job of unrighteousness before the LORD:

11 "But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The devil/Satan was a bad guy from the beginning of Adam and Eve. John 8:

44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Strong's Greek: 1228. διάβολος (diabolos) — 38 Occurrences

HELPS Word-studies:

1228 diábolos (from 1225 /diabállō, "to slander, accuse, defame") – properly, a slanderer; a false accuser; unjustly criticizing to hurt (malign) and condemn to sever a relationship.

When did Satan fall?

By Satan falling from heaven, I mean Satan no longer had face-to-face access to the LORD in heaven.

Revelation 12:

9 And the great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil [G1228] and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

I define these four characters as different manifestations of the same personality the satan.

The devil/Satan slandered and accused people before God, face to face. After he fell, he could no longer accuse people before God. However, he continued to tempt people on earth.

When did the satan lose his access to God?

It was prophecied in Isaiah 14:

12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’

The satan wants to replace the Most High God. He would be thrown out of heaven for this pride/ambition.

Jesus affirmed that in Luke 10:

18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Luke 22:

31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat."

Satan asked God, presumably in heaven, face to face.

Satan probably lost his access to God when Jesus died on the Cross before Jesus ascended to the right hand of God (Mark 16:19).

 

[AlexB23]

Revelation 12:


I define these 4 characters as different manifestations of the same personality the satan.

John 8:


The devil was a bad guy from the beginning of Adam and Eve.

The satan spoke to God in Job 1:


When did the satan lose his access to God?

It was prophecied in Isaiah 14:


The satan wants to replace the Most High God. He would be thrown out of heaven for this pride/ambition.

Jesus affirmed that in Luke 10:


My guess is that Satan probably lost his access to God when Jesus died on the Cross, before Jesus ascended to the right hand of God (Mark 16:19).

The Evil One probably fell sometime between when the universe was created billions of years ago and when humans first existed, as the serpent existed on Earth when Adam & Eve were in the garden. The serpent count have fallen at the second of the universe's creation, or a second before humans existed.

 

[tonychanyt]

The Evil One probably fell sometime between when the universe was created billions of years ago and when humans first existed, as the serpent existed on Earth when Adam & Eve were in the garden. The serpent count have fallen at the second of the universe's creation, or a second before humans existed.

What about Satan's appearance in Job?

 

[AlexB23]

What about Satan's appearance in Job?

That happened long after Satan fell.

 

[tonychanyt]

That happened long after Satan fell.

Satan was talking to God in heaven in the Book of Job after he had fallen from heaven?

 

[Laodicean60]

Satan was talking to God in heaven in the Book of Job after he had fallen from heaven?

How do you interpret the King of Tyre? I always thought it meant satan.

Ezekiel 28:12-19

 

[tonychanyt]

How do you interpret the King of Tyre? I always thought it meant satan.

Ezekiel 28:12-19

The king of Tyre was a type of Satan. Like Satan, he was proud.

 

[AlexB23]

Satan was talking to God in heaven in the Book of Job after he had fallen from heaven?

I am not sure, but he fell before Adam & Eve existed.

 

[Laodicean60]

The king of Tyre was a type of Satan. Like Satan, he was proud.

The confusing part is that the King of Tyre was in Edan.

 

[tonychanyt]

I am not sure, but he fell before Adam & Eve existed.

In Job 1:7, it says that Satan was talking to God in heaven. On the other hand, there is no verse that says that Satan fell before Adam & Eve existed.

Which piece of evidence you would put more weight on?

 

[tonychanyt]

The confusing part is that the King of Tyre was in Edan.

Right, that is why I think the passage is talking about both.

 

[AlexB23]

In Job 1:7, it says that Satan was talking to God in heaven. On the other hand, there is no verse that says that Satan fell before Adam & Eve existed.

Which piece of evidence you would put more weight on?

Genesis 3:1 said: Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

So, yeah, this serpent was before Job 1:7. The serpent tempted Adam & Eve, so therefore the devil fell before Job 1:7. The Bible does have weird parts that seem to contradict each other, and that's coming from a Christian.

 

[RDKirk]

It seems pretty clear to me that Satan's role from Adam to the resurrection or ascension of Christ has been that of "accuser," or "prosecutor" (that's what "Satan" literally means) against humanity in God's heavenly presence (which is an anthropomorphic scene that is undoubtedly erroneous). We see Satan in the role of Accuser in God's heavenly presence against Job as well as against Ahab.

Based on Revelation 12, I think that at Christ's resurrection or ascension (I wouldn't die on the hill of that distinction), Satan was removed from God's heavenly presence ...he no longer had a direct access to God, but was and has since been permanently bound to the material realm. I think all references to Satan's being "cast out of heaven" relate to that moment. It could have happened a bit earlier...when Jesus stated, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," He might have been speaking literally of that same day. The sentence seems to depict an earth-based viewpoint.

Now, the question to me is: When did Lucifer take on the role of Accuser? Or did he always have that role, with the understanding that the concept of "always" only exists within the created universe? Was Lucifer created for that role?

 

[tonychanyt]

Genesis 3:1 said: Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

So, yeah, this serpent was before Job 1:7. The serpent tempted Adam & Eve, so therefore the devil fell before Job 1:7. The Bible does have weird parts that seem to contradict each other, and that's coming from a Christian.

After the devil had fallen from heaven or the presence of God, can he return to see God?

 

[AlexB23]

After the devil had fallen from heaven or the presence of God, can he return to see God?

I am not sure. Most likely, the devil is locked out of heaven.

 

[tonychanyt]

I am not sure. Most likely, the devil is locked out of heaven.

Right, in that case, Satan still had access to heaven/God in Job 1.

 

[AlexB23]

Right, in that case, Satan still had access to heaven/God in Job 1.

Strange stuff

 

[linux.poet]

When did Lucifer take on the role of Accuser? Or did he always have that role, with the understanding that the concept of "always" only exists within the created universe? Was Lucifer created for that role?

I was taught that this passage refers to Satan:

How you have fallen from heaven,
You star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who defeated the nations!
13 But you said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 Nevertheless you will be brought down to Sheol,
To the recesses of the pit.
16 Those who see you will stare at you,
They will closely examine you, saying,
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world like a wilderness
And overthrew its cities,
Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?’

This passage implies that Satan took on the role of accuser of his own free will as an angel of God when he decided he could supplant God. Obviously, if he despises God himself and wants to supplant him as ruler of the universe, he also despises those made in the image of God and would see them harmed by continuing to accuse them of wrong.

However, looking at the Scripture today, I see how that interpretation could be questioned by saying that this passage refers to the King of Babylon and the way Nebuchadnezzar had to be humbled in Daniel, and not to Satan himself. Still, that is the teaching that I was given.

 

[RDKirk]

I was taught that this passage refers to Satan:



This passage implies that Satan took on the role of accuser of his own free will as an angel of God when he decided he could supplant God. Obviously, if he despises God himself and wants to supplant him as ruler of the universe, he also despises those made in the image of God and would see them harmed by continuing to accuse them of wrong.

Accuser and supplanter are two very different things. As Accuser, Satan clearly accepts and works within God's sovereignty. A court prosecutor is an officer of the court, after all, and operates under the authority of the Judge.

But a supplanter is a different thing completely. The supplanter is attempting to oust the Judge.

However, looking at the Scripture today, I see how that interpretation could be questioned by saying that this passage refers to the King of Babylon and the way Nebuchadnezzar had to be humbled in Daniel, and not to Satan himself. Still, that is the teaching that I was given.

It could materially refer to the king of Tyre or the king of Babylon.

Or (or maybe in addition) it could be prophetically looking forward to Luke 4:7 and Satan's attempt to place himself above Jesus, which is the scene of Satan making his actual attempt to step above his Accuser role and take the place of the Lord of Creation (from Colossians 1).

The incarnation of the Son, I think, took Satan by surprise. He knew there would be a Savior, but I don't think he knew who or how it would occur. He probably thought Moses, but did he realize it would actually be the Son incarnated? And whether he knew that beforehand or not, might he not hope that the Son, become flesh, could not be seduced through His flesh?

I think Satan's attempt to tempt Jesus was his step out of bounds that Isaiah refers to prophetically.

 

[Laodicean60]

Or (or maybe in addition) it could be prophetically looking forward to Luke 4:7 and Satan's attempt to place himself above Jesus, which is the scene of Satan making his actual attempt to step above his Accuser role and take the place of the Lord of Creation (from Colossians 1).

The incarnation of the Son, I think, took Satan by surprise. He knew there would be a Savior, but I don't think he knew who or how it would occur. He probably thought Moses, but did he realize it would actually be the Son incarnated? And whether he knew that beforehand or not, might he not hope that the Son, become flesh, could not be seduced through His flesh?

This is how I feel. Since the devil is not all-knowing he tried to tempt Jesus and then maybe realized that He was the savior.