What's the use?

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 08:45 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #56

FOC:
''We do however claim that the Bible is true and anything that goes against the things that ARE written in it are wrong. ''

NP:

''So if anyone says anything about the nature of God which is either not mentioned or contradicted, directly or indirectly, by the Bible, then they're wrong.''


It is not the same.

My example states ''anything that goes against scripture is wrong'' while your example
states ''any said about the nature of God whether its mentioned in scripture or not is wrong''

you surely cannot tell me that you see no difference in those 2 statements.
If you can say that then you are far less intelligent than I originally gave you credit for

Well, finally we see the problem, and if you had just said so in the first place instead of being snide, we could've resolved it.

You misread me. Perhaps I should've stated, "...anything about the nature of God which is contradicted or not mentioned..."

I was referring to the common errors of Biblical literalists: to assume that something is false if 1: the Bible says otherwise or 2: The Bible does not explicitly say it is so. 

For example, in my "divine revelation" example a few posts ago, what if I had mentioned that God appeared to me in the form of an English Sheepdog named "Bosko?" Even if everything "Bosko" said had a Biblical basis, most literalists would reject the "revelation," Claiming that God would never deign to appear as an English Sheepdog, because the Bible never said that He would.

You practically started a Holy Flame war over a misplaced adverb (not) and you want to make disparaging comments about my intelligence?

You're not setting a very Christian example, but then again, I never expected you would.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 09:01 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #59



You think He is up there throwing lightening bolts at people?

I was thinking more along the line that there is something about me that attracts lightening.

Well, considering that He has used earthquakes, tornadoes, plagues, hordes of vermin, and pillars of fire to waste entire civilizations which displeased him, why wouldn't he use an occasional thunderbolt to pick off an individual truoblemaker?

 

[JohnR7]

Today at 03:14 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #46 ''So if anyone says anything about the nature of God which is either not mentioned or contradicted, directly or indirectly, by the Bible, then they're wrong.''

One of us has missed something here...

What your missing out on here is some of the basics. The old testament is the old covenant. It is a covenant between God and the Hebrews. The new testament is a new covenant and it is a covenant between God and the gentiles for the most part.

John 1:17  For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Under the old covenant, there were two parts. The first was given at the mountain. This was a covenant between the people and their God. This was the sort of lightening and earthquake type of experance that you talk about. The people were afraid and asked that God not talk to them directly again, but that He use Moses to send his message to them.

Deut. 4:11-12
    Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness. [12] And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice.

The second covenant was just before they entered into the promised land and this was a covenant between themselves. Just as Jesus divides it into two parts. Between us and God and between us and other.

It was always God's plan to have a relationship with His people. God would talk with Adam in the cool of the day . It is His desire to be in a relationship with us. The Bible then should help us to draw closer to God. We are to be the priest to interceed between God and those who are living apart from God.

The Bible then is not written so much as a intercession for us. But to show us how to enter into a relationship with God, ourselves.


 



 

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 09:12 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #60



Yeah, it all depends on what you have to offer them and put on the table. We have life, health, healing, the miracle power of God, and so on. What do the muslims have to offer?

Replace "God" with "Allah" and they'll offer the exact same thing.

People are usually pretty happy to give up whatever it is they have, because we offer them something better. Of course in Africa they do not have much, some of them could die at anytime, what they have to eat does not look edible. There are those who are already missing body parts. Just to give them a little bit of love and hope is quite a bit. Just to give them anything at all is something when most people try and take away what little bit they have, to where they have almost nothing left to take.

No matter how noble you make it sound, it's still bribery to me. "We give them a hot meal and a roof over their heads, and they give their souls to Christ in return." Because that's what you ask from them...

I was going to ask you. Are you up for a discussion on The Odyssey, Hannibal's Code or better yet The Epic of Gilgamesh?

I'm only up on bits and pieces of The Odyssey, and not much on the others. My specialty is more in American Literature.

 

[JohnR7]

Today at 09:31 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #62
Well, considering that He has used earthquakes, tornadoes, plagues, hordes of vermin, and pillars of fire to waste entire civilizations which displeased him, why wouldn't he use an occasional thunderbolt to pick off an individual truoblemaker?

Better keep an eye over your shoulder then, He may have a pretty good aim

 

[mjiracek]

nathan poe,
you raise an interesting point. that being if the bible does not same anything it must be wrong. perhaps God could cometo you as Bosko but i highly doubt it. But thats for God to decide, not me. If some revelation does come to a person they need to check it with scripture. if it does not agree with scripture then they need to reject it.
also there is a word called adiaphra(im not sure on the spelling since it is latin) but it basically means if it is not nessecarry to salvation then dont worry about it. for example the color of pews is not nessecarry to salvation but having faithin Christ is and believing what the bible says is. do you catch my drift?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 09:43 PM mjiracek said this in Post #66

nathan poe,
you raise an interesting point. that being if the bible does not same anything it must be wrong. perhaps God could cometo you as Bosko but i highly doubt it. But thats for God to decide, not me. If some revelation does come to a person they need to check it with scripture. if it does not agree with scripture then they need to reject it.

but this is my whole point. Let us assume that the Bible is the word of God. (I know that's a given for Christians, so as a scoffer, I'll play along). Suppose God decideds to change His mind?

And yes, God can change His mind. Just ask Noah.

So God wants to add an amendment or exception, whatever, to the Bible. The problem is that the Bible is already booby-trapped against anyone, even God Himself, adding or editing it:

Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. "

Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

although this verse may just be referring to Revelation, and not the Bible in general, but you get the idea.

also there is a word called adiaphra(im not sure on the spelling since it is latin) but it basically means if it is not nessecarry to salvation then dont worry about it. for example the color of pews is not nessecarry to salvation but having faithin Christ is and believing what the bible says is. do you catch my drift?

I would agree, except that I would leave out "believing what the Bible says." It's passed through too many hands to be considered a reliable source. It's the only source of information about Christ, but unfortunately, it's been used and manipulated over the centuries to the point where common sense dictates that it has to be taken with a few grains of salt.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 09:41 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #65



Better keep an eye over your shoulder then, He may have a pretty good aim

He's God, John; He'd have perfect aim. That's why I'd ask for a warning shot.

Surely God can land a thunderbolt ten feet away without causing me any harm? If all he wanted to do was scare the hell out of me (literally)...

 

[Zadok001]

Surely God can land a thunderbolt ten feet away without causing me any harm? If all he wanted to do was scare the hell out of me (literally)...

Surely you mean if he wanted to scare you out of hell, yes?

 

[mjiracek]

ok i am going to disagreewith you on the God changes his mind. if one is to believe that god does not have everything planned out then we are all screwed...

however god does provide loopholes for us people...the example being noah...also jesus dying on the cross was an escape for us...god never changed his mind though

 

[mjiracek]

well i need to go but it was fun

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 10:32 PM mjiracek said this in Post #70

ok i am going to disagreewith you on the God changes his mind. if one is to believe that god does not have everything planned out then we are all screwed...

We're not screwed, we're just on our own. And if we were screwed, wouldn't it be more honest to just come out and admit it? Flase hope is worse than no hope at all...

however god does provide loopholes for us people...the example being noah...also jesus dying on the cross was an escape for us...god never changed his mind though

The story of Noah (very condensed version)

God creates humanity. Humanity misbehaves.

God decides that humanity wasn't such a hot idea after all.

God decides to wipe humanity off the Earth with a flood.

God gives Noah a heads-up about impending flood.

Noah gathers family and two (seven?) of every critter on big boat.

Rains come. Flood comes. All life on Earth dies except for Noah et al.

Noah's family and critters repopulate Earth.

God promises Noah no more floods, and invents the rainbow as a reminder:  "Note to Self: never flood Earth again." (Genesis 9:14-16)

The End.

Now, it certainly sounds like God's opinion of the human race vacillated a little during the flood story, don't you think?

 

[JohnR7]

Yesterday at 09:39 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #64

JR: Yeah, it all depends on what you have to offer them and put on the table. We have life, health, healing, the miracle power of God, and so on. What do the muslims have to offer?

NP: Replace "God" with "Allah" and they'll offer the exact same thing.

You see, there is proof conclusive that miracles really do exist. Because you are so far out on the limb on that one, that there is no way that little bitty twig is going to support you weight.

So, now it is my turn to be the skeptic. Go ahead and show me the life, the love, the healing & miracles that the Muslim faith offers to people.

The Koran looks very much like a book of laws to me. I read a section in there on marriage once. They had laws for when a muslim was married to a non muslim. They had marrage laws for those who live in a muslim country under muslim law and rules for those who do not live in a muslim country.

So go ahead, give it your best shot and show me where the muslim faith offers anything at all anywhere near as good as what the christian faith has to offer. I do not mean opinions either, I mean evidence and proof to back up what your saying.

Do you have $500,000 worth of digital video cameras and equipment to document the healing and the miracles that the muslims are receiving from God? Er sorry I mean "Allah".

 

[JohnR7]

Yesterday at 10:20 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #68


He's God, John; He'd have perfect aim. That's why I'd ask for a warning shot.

Surely God can land a thunderbolt ten feet away without causing me any harm?

That is all it is going to take is one little thunder bolt? I am sure we can arrange that for you. You do have a surge protector for your computer don't you?

 

[JohnR7]

You had best consider these forums to be training. What will happen once you're a stranger in a strange land?

Like you said, we are either prepared or we are not. But it's the Holy Spirit of God that prepares us, not godless heathen.

I do agree with you that God can use godless heathen to accomplish His purpose, because they are so perdictable. The ones God has trouble are the ones that are in and out, up and down, back and forth. He never knows for sure what they are going to do.

Perhaps that is why there are so many people who were once christians but no longer are. They just were not consistant and steadfast in the faith.

 

[LadyShea]

I dont believe in Santa, and I would not waste a second of my time arguing that he doesnt exist.

You might if the Santaists were trying to have 'Twas the Night Before Christmas taught in History class and promoting the scientific validity of flying reindeer and chimney descending. You might if you were under constant bombardment to believe in Santa or suffer eternal torment...if people knocked on your door with Santa literature and tried to badger you into coming to their Santa meetings...if people called you immoral and evil for disbelieving in Santa...if when you pledged allegiance to your country they snuck in a little added necessity to assert your belief in Santa...if you were told you shouldn't be a citizen unless you believed in Santa...if people tried to scare your children with eternal torment for not believeing in Santa.

Sorry, but I think you would spend some of your time under these circumstances...I think you would have an issue, especially if Santaists were the overwhelming majority.