What's so bad about the Book of Mormon?

[RestoredGospelEvidences]

OK---let me say this--a part of the problem here is "FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE"----(I've always wanted to say that line)---Thing is, a question is asked--an answer is given--however, the answer ends up bringing up more questions. And then those are not answered. I've Never had my question answered--"Where in scripture does it say that the priesthood is to be reinstated?" I was told about a higher law --what higher law--I was given the golden rule--that says nothing about the priesthood--end result--question never answered--you, however, will claim it has been --
And that is how it goes with other questions. So---maybe, to get to the bottom line, maybe one question could be chewed over until it is totally chewed up, including the questions that the answer gives, (Like how does the golden rule explain the priesthood?)without going off topic- before going to the next question--??--Maybe?? Instead of the whole book, just one thing at a time??

The question, if directed to Mormons: --"Where in scripture does it say that the priesthood is to be reinstated?" Is thus assumed to require Mormon perspectives on this. If so, I would like to offer some insights & answers. From Mormon perspectives, & one even noted by a number of early to later Christians, is how the spiritual gifts started to fade out of the early to later Christian church. Mormons call this "The Great Apostasy." Or as Paul to Timothy predicted, a "falling away," where people would turn away from the truth & settle for substitutes, by turning unto fables. (2 Timothy 4:3-4). Because, as Mormons testify, there was a "falling away," & many of the spiritual gifts, & doctrines eventually turned to fables, in many areas of Christendom, there was the need for a restoration of all things. This is not to say that many basic themes weren't preserved in early Christian books, arts works & earlier bibles. For all due credit should be given to the illumination book artists, the stone carvers, fresco, iconists, painters, diligent bible scribes, who copied & illustrated different doctrines that were passed down to them. But it is to note how that many of the doctrines & rituals were also legendized in other areas of Christendom too. Thus, the need for a restoration, a refreshing, a clarification of early doctrines was needed. This, Mormons testify was predicted in Acts 3:19-21.

The early church set up with Apostles, prophets, & other church officers, (Eph. 4:11-16), with Christ as the head of the early Church, that was likened unto "the whole body fitly joined together," which different parts of the body, should not say that other parts aren't needed, (1 Cor. 12:4-31, Chapter 13; 1 Pet. 2:5-9). The original intent of the early leaders was to also maintain the foundation that was set. If one of the apostles died or fell away, as with the case with Judas, then they would be replaced by another candidate. (Acts 1:24-6; 13:2-4). Christ ordained his apostles with priesthood power, which also has symbolical keys to open, close & seal up spiritual type doors, (Matt. 16:19; Mark 3:14; John 15:16; Acts 14:23). Some of these spiritual doors were how priesthood powers & keys could unlock the spirit prison to let repentant spirits free, as Christ did during his descent into hell, & as Prophets, Apostles, Saints & angels also did, during their descents into hell, to preach the gospel there. John the Baptist, after being martyred, also preached Christ's descent & baptism to the souls in the spirit prison. The keys of the priesthood, thus open the way for repentant souls to ascend into paradise. (Eph. 4:7-14; 1 Pet. 3:15-22; 4:5-6). Mormon testify that John the Baptist, & Peter, James & John & other prophets, appeared to Jospeh Smith & other early Mormon leaders to restored the priesthood & said keys. This is why Mormons are real big on doing temple work, for & in behalf of the dead, or those in the spirit world, & testify that the preaching of the gospel is going on there, even to this day. It's an on going use, & one in many uses of the restored priesthood.

When Christ's apostles eventually became unheard of, those who were taught by them, the Apostolic Fathers, wrote of different issues, as they responded to the different issues & challenges that the early Church faced during the 1st into the early part of the 2nd century. (Ante-Nicene Fathers, = ANF, vol. 1). Claims to priesthood powers, spiritual gifts, prophetic visions, became an early issue, as different sects split off from each other, claiming to still have the spiritual gifts. In time, early to later Christians regret & admit that the spiritual gifts were becoming less frequent. Prophets & Apostles that could produce new scriptures, were also unheard off, as centuries went on. Different groups, like the Montanists, claimed prophetic gifts, while the writer of The Shepherd of Hermas, part of early canons of the New Testament, claimed to be visions produced by the spiritual gifts (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 2).

2nd century, Justin Martyr's Dialogue With Trypho: "One may see among us (the Christians) men & women who have received the gifts of the Spirit of God...there were no longer to be prophets in your (Jewish) race as in the past...For after him (Jesus) absolutely no prophet has come among you." And further on, "We have still among us, even until now, prophetic gifts, which should make you understand that" [that] "which your race formerly possessed has been transferred to us." (ANF 1:10, chap. 20). Had the long line of prophets continued amongst the Jews, there would have been a continued, ever growing canon of scriptures. From an early Christian perspective, the Jews had fallen away into apostasy, & Christ, amongst other reasons, appeared on the scene to restore the priesthood & spiritual gifts again. The early Christians hoped that what happened to the Jews, wouldn't also happen to them, but regret to admit that the spiritual gifts had also begun to fade out of the early Christian church. If not, there would have been a long line of prophets & apostles that would have produced an ever growing canon of scriptures too. What replaced the spiritual gifts were the dialetic arts of arguments & reason popular amongst the Greeks, where who ever could come up with the most clever argument, & could support their thesis with clever reasoned out counters to their rivals, they seem to have gained more favor. But the early Christian fathers of the 2nd--6th centuries, didn't produce writings that were canonized & accepted as scriptures like the prophets & apostles. Although they were Pastors, Priests, Bishops, & held other church leadership positions. We have to give credit to their writings for keeping many of the basic doctrines alive, though they argued about other things that weren't found in the scriptures too, as Philosophy began to be blended in with their clever responses to pagans, Jews, early anti-Christians, heretics & each other.

The priesthood, with its spiritual gifts, didn't fade out right away, but was a slow process over the early centuries on into about the 6th century. They were in response to those who did the same types of things as the magicians were doing, (Acts 8).

In later centuries: "It was chiefly the ignorant & common people that the artifices of the magicians found dupes. We see from the romance of Apuleius how much credit the magicians had among the people. In opposition to their false miracles, the church could show miracles which were true, & supernatural events such as had signalized the first days of missions were still repeated, though with less & less frequency. The clear & unanimous testimony of the Fathers of the 3rd & 4th centuries, leaves no room to doubt the continuance of miraculous power in the Church of that period. Irenaeus & Tertullian speak of miraculous cures effected by Christians, & even of persons being raised from the dead. "That some cast out devils," says Irenaeus, "is a matter that cannot be called in question, since it is attested by the experience of those who have been thus delivered, & are now in the Church. Others have the gift of foretelling the future, see visions, & speak prophetic words; others effect cures by laying their hands on the sick." (Irenaeus, Contr. Haeres. II, p.57). [ANF, 1:309 & 409, Irenaeus, A.D. 120-202].

Other examples of this are in this article: When the Spiritual Gifts Began to Fade Out of the Early Church.

In time, the priesthood powers seems to have been replaced with claims to "relic magic," where an apostle's bone, fragments of the cross, or other relics, were believed to have healing powers, or could do miracles. Pilgrimages to where these relics were held, became the on going quest to try to get the spiritual gifts of old back, as Christendom held to the things of the past, during "the Dark Ages," on down to the age of Enlightenment, which didn't restore the spirituals gifts, as it encouraged scholarly quests for re-discovery of old mysteries & truths.

Arnold Toynbee, (Editor), The Crucible of Christianity, Judaism, Hellenism and The Historical Background to the Christian Faith, (New York, and Cleveland, World Publishing Company, CR Thames & Hudson, 1969).

Arthur Cushman McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, (New York, & London: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1932, & 1954).

Caroline Walker Bynum, Jesus as Mother, Studies in the Spirituality of the High Middle Ages, (Berkeley, California: University of Berkeley California Press, 1982, paper back edition 1984).

Charles Norris Cochrane, Christianity and Classical Culture, (Clarendone Press, 1940, Paperback; Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1957).

Christopher De Hamel, A History of Illuminated Manuscripts, (Boston: David R. Godine, Horticultural Hall, 1986; United Kingdom: Phaidon Press Limited, 1986).

Clyde L. Manschreck, A History of Christianity in the World, (Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 1985, second edition).

Everett Ferguson, Backgrounds Of Early Christianity, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1987).

Francis Legge, Forerunners And Rivals Of Christianity, (From 330 B.C. TO 330 A.D.), 2 Volumes as 1, (New Hyde Park, New York: University Books, 1964).

Fredk, WM. Hackwood, F.R.S.L., Christ Lore (Being the Legends, Traditions, Myths, Symbols, & Superstitions of The Christian Church), (London: 1902, republished, Detroit: Gale Research Company, Book Tower, 1969).

Geoffrey R. King, The Forty Days, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: W.M. B. Eerdmans, 1949).

George Every, 1970 & 1987, Christian Legends, (New York: Peter Bedrick Books). Every, Christian Mythology, (London, England; New York, U.S.A.; Sydney Toronto: The Hamlyn Pub. Group Limited, 1970, and Middlesex, England: Hamlyn House, Feltham, 1973).

Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985).

Henry Chadwick, The Early Church, (New York: Dorset Press, 1967).

Henry Bettenson, The Early Christian Fathers, (Oxford, England: Oxford University Press, 1956).

Dr. Huge Nibley, 3: The World And The Prophets, 4: Mormonism and Early Christianity, (1987).

Islay Burns, D.D., Professor of Church History, The First Three Christian Centuries, (London, England: Free Church College, Glasgow, 1884).

James L. Barker, Apostasy From the Divine Church, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret News Press, CR 1960, Kate Montgomery Barker).

James Reston, Jr., Dogs of God, Columbus, the Inquisition, and the Defeat of the Moors, (New York, New York, Doubleday, 2005).

James L . Barker, Apostasy From The Divine Church, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret News Press, 1960). James L. Barker, The Divine Church, Down Through Change, Apostasy therefrom, and Restoration, (Salt Lake City, Utah: The Deseret News, 1951). Being a course of study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums for the years 1952-4), 3 vols: 1952, 1953, 1954.

T. Edgar Lyon, Apostasy to Restoration, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1960; Course of Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, CR 1960, David O. McKay).

Noel B. Rynolds, (Editor), Early Christians In Disarray, Comtemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy, (Utah: FARMS, BYU, 2005).

Barry Robert Bickmore, Restoring The Ancient Church, Jospeh Smith & Early Christianity, (Utah: FAIR, 1999).

Matthew B. Brown, All Things Restored, (Utah: Covenant Communications, 2000, 2006).

John McManners, (Editor), The Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity, (Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press, 1990).

Keith Thomas, Religion & the Decline of Magic, (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971).

Paul Johnson, A History of Christianity, (New York: Atheneum, 1979).

Peter Bamm, The Kingdoms of Christ From The Days of the Apostles to the Middle Ages, (New York, U.S.A; Toronto, Canada; London, England: McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc., CR Droemersche Verlagsantalt & Thames & Hudson, London, England, 1959).

Philp Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1884). Schaff, D.D. LL.D., The Teaching of The Twelve Apostles Or, The Oldest Church Manual The Didache and Kindred Documents in the Original, (New York: Funk & Wagnalls, and Astor Place, 1890).

W. H. C. Frend: Martyrdom & Persecution In The Early Church, (Garden City, New York: Anchor Books Doubleday & Company, 1967). The Early Church, (Philadelphia and New York: J. B. Lippincott Company, 1966).

William G.T. Shedd, D.D., A History of Christian Doctrine, (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, third edition, 1883).

Reader’s Digest, Jesus And His Times, (Pleasantville, New York and Montreal, Canada: The Reader’s Digest Associations, Inc., 1990).
After Jesus, The Triumph of Christianity, (Pleasantville, New York and Montreal, Canada: The Reader’s Digest Associations, Inc., 1992).
Mysteries of the Bible, The Enduring Questions of the Bible, (Pleasantville, NewYork and Montreal: The Reader's Digest Association, Inc., 1988).

Reader’s Digest’s ABC's Of The Bible, Kaari Ward, (Editor), 1991.

John Lawrence Mosheim, D.D., An Ecclesiastical History, (London: 1819, Translated by Archibald Maclaine), 6 vols.

The Restoration in Light of the Testimony of History.

 

[briquest]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 4:6King James Version (KJV)
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is WRITTEN, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Galatians 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But though WE, or an ANGEL from heaven, preach any other GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

John 19:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

FINISHED DONE COMPLETE PERFECT THE WORD OF GOD.

 

[Ironhold]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

It's a common mistake citing this passage as "proof" that the canon is closed. People want to give undue weight to the phrase "all scripture is given" and ignoring the full passage (which is actually talking about the purpose of scripture).

 

[RestoredGospelEvidences]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 4:6King James Version (KJV)
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is WRITTEN, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Galatians 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But though WE, or an ANGEL from heaven, preach any other GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

John 19:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

FINISHED DONE COMPLETE PERFECT THE WORD OF GOD.

Old argument, already answered by LDS Apostle, Orson Pratt, 1850. "10. A saying of Paul to Timothy is sometimes referred to by the enemies of new revelation, and applied in the most deceptive manner, in order to strengthen the world in the fatal delusion that God will no more speak with man, it reads as follows: "From a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation." (II Timothy 3:15.) The objector to new revelation argues, from this passage, that the scriptures with Timothy was acquainted in his childhood, were abundantly sufficient to make him wise unto salvation, and consequently there was no need of any more. If this conclusion be correct, it would do away with all the scriptures of the New Testament; for Timothy, when a child, was only acquainted with the scriptures of the Old Testament, the scriptures of the New Testament not being yet written. Thus, again, the enemy of new revelation in his fanatical zeal to close up the volume of inspiration, has done away the very scriptures which he pretends so firmly to believe.
11. Modern false teachers, in order to sustain their impositions, sometimes quote the following: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, I thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (II Tim. 3:16, 17.) They assert that this passage means that "enough" scripture has been given to perfect the man of God, that "enough" has been given to thoroughly furnish him unto all good works; but the word enough is not found in the passage: it reads, "All scripture is given, etc." The righteous man has no authority from this passage to assume that he has enough, but he should continue to seek for "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little"; and if he gives heed unto all scripture which God may condescend to reveal, it will perfect him, and thoroughly furnish him unto all good works. This passage, therefore, leaves the man of God to be perfected by all scripture which God has given by inspiration, in early ages, or which He may give in latter times. He is not limited to any particular number of books which uninspired man has happened to find and compile into a Bible.
Indeed, if the assertions of these false teachers be true, then there are several books of the New Testament which must be rejected; for if the man of God had enough scripture at the time Paul wrote his epistle to Timothy, then the book of Revelations given on Patmos some years after, together with the book of John's gospel, and several of the epistles, must be excluded from the Bible." (Orson Pratt, DIVINE AUTHENTICITY OF THE BOOK OF MORMON NUMBERS 1-3 Liverpool, 1850).

There is no revelation declaring the end of revelation & an ultimate closed canon forever & ever. For those who want to shut the mouth of God to speak or have more scripture written:

"...Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it...." (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29).

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." (John 21:25).

 

[RestoredGospelEvidences]

(Heb 7:21) (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Heb 7:23) And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
(Heb 7:24) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
(Heb 7:25) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
(Heb 7:26) For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
(Heb 7:27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
(Heb 7:28) For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.



There is only one High Priest, and He is Jesus. No other priest is needed. There are elders, deacons, bishops, for the running of the church, no priests. What need is there for a priest, there are no animal sacrifices for them to do anymore. There are churches to takes care, that is all. Jesus is out intercessor.

Different officers, leaders, were given by Christ & ordained for different reasons, (Eph. 4:3-25; the Old Testament typology of the Priests doing cleansing rituals is still in the typology of the New Testament, Eph. 4:26-32; 5:1-13, 26-27, 6:10-19; baptism was one of the New Testament cleansing rituals, sins being washed away, (Rev. 1:5-6, & like a coronation ceremony, making us "kings & priests unto God and his Father"). The Priestly OT, later NT cleansing & washings of baptism, was also a type of death, burial & resurrection, Col. 2:11-17; Rom. 6:4. Thus, the OT type of cleansing of priestly robes, of washings was also a NT type of the Messiah-Christ, Levit. chaps 1-22, etc., Heb. 1:11-12; Isa. 1:16-18. The blood, filth, stains, filthy rags, blackened or soiled robes or garments of the OT priests, that needed to be washed & cleansed, were types of sins, & the sins of the people, being washed away. These washing rituals of the OT priesthood, became typologies in the NT & early Christian church. The writings of the early Christian fathers are full of lectures about these types, or similitudes, where they likened the OT with the NT typologies-similitudes of Messiah-Christ. The NT church was to "put off," or "lay aside" or become "unblemished," (like the umblemished OT lambs, symbolic of Messiah-Christ), without wrinkles, (all priestly garment types of putting off negative traits of sins, malice, disobedience, & all kinds of sins), to be girted about with truth, putting on righteousness, (Eph. 5:26-27; 6:10-19; James 1:17-27, becoming "unspotted." Spots on the Priestly garments, were symbolic of sins, thus to not have on the "spotted garment" having been cleasned of all sins, (1 John 1:5-10; chap. 2; 3:1-3; Jude 11-25), were types of what Messiah-Christ did through his bloody sufferings for the human family, (Rev. 1:5-14; 3:18-21, 5:9; 7:14; 19:7-8, the Lamb-Messiah-Christ, like the Priestly OT types, the unblemished lamb slain, in NT types, the washing of their robes to make them white in the blood of the Lamb, (Rev. 7:14), was because this OT Priestly cleansing ritual, passed on to NT typologies, was symbolic of how the new person in Christ should be clothed in new Priestly robes, new clothing, whitened, purified, for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, (Rev. 19:7-8, 14). These are all ritualistic types that were done by the different officers in the early Church, which Christ gave for this & other reasons. Another being to help keep the church from being divided with contentions, if possible, to keep unity, so that they'd also help each other, & develop Christ like traits of love, kindness, charity, & the other good spiritual gifts, the best gift being charity (1 Cor. 13). Thus, the church is likened unto a body, with Christ as the head, & the body, in need of protective clothing, & also consisting of different parts, no part should say to the other part, we have no need of you, 1 Cor. 12:4-31, chap. 13). In other words, a priest shouldn't say, we have no need of prophets, or prophets shouldn't say we have no need of priests, etc., etc., for the different officers-leaders, were given by Christ to help deal with different issues that arose & so: "That there should be no schism in the body," (1 Cor. 12:25), & so that they could come to a unity of the faith, etc., (Eph. 4:11-25). For someone to claim that Christ is the only Priest, is a show of not understanding the NT priestly-temple types of Messiah-Christ similitudes. Plus, all the priestly rituals of the OT changed into NT Messiah-Christ typologies that were continued on by the earliest to later Christians. It shows that those who might think the temple mysteries were done away with in Christ, because he "finished" it all, or that it was the end of a canon, the end of temple work, (the mysteries), the end of Christ ever talking to people, giving them new scriptures, or having inspired prophets, apostles, & other leaders, including priests. Those who make such claims, it shows that they don't understand, or have taken a close look at the NT types, & the history of early to Christian rituals, the mysteries, ordinances, masses, liturgical ceremonies, & temple-typologies that continued on in the NT church, & early to later Christianity.

Abram Kanof, Jewish Ceremonial Art And Religious Observance, (New York: Harry N. Abrams).

Alan W. Watts, Myth And Ritual In Christianity, (New York and London: Thames and Hudson, 1954).

Darell Thorpe, The Garments Of The First And Second Adam: [The Symbolical Meanings Of Garments In Early To Later Christendom], October 1993, an unpublished research paper and file. The Armor of the Gods.
The Armor of Gods (Protective Skins or Garments in History & Color Symbolism), (Kindle Edition, 2012).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

Darell Thorpe, Evidences That "Historic Biblical Earlier Christianity" Had Temple Type "Mysteries"

Donald W. Parry, (Editor), etc., Temples Of The Ancient World, Ritual and Symbolism, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Desert Book Company, 1994, & Provo, Utah: Foundation For Ancient Research and Mormon Studies).

Erwin R. Goodenough, Jewish Symbols in the Greco-Roman Period, (Bollingen Series XXXVII, 1964, Pantheon Books). Multiple volume series.

E.O. James, From Cave To Cathedral (Temples and shrines of prehistoric, Classical, & early Christian times), (New York & Washington: Frederick A. Praeger; Thames & Hudson 1965).

Francis Bond, Fonts and Font Covers, (London, New York, and Toronto: Henry Frowde, Oxford University Press, 1908).

Frederick S. Paxton, Christianizing Death, The Creation of a Ritual Process in Early Medieval Europe, (Ithaca & London: Cornell University Press, 1990).

Gilda Berger, Easter And Other Spring Holidays, (New York; London; Toronto; and Sydney: Franklin Watts, 1983, A First Book).

Hanns Swarzenski, Monuments Of Romanesque Art, The Art of Church Treasures in North-Western Europe, (The University of Chicago Press, 1954 and 2nd, Edition, 1967).

Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985).

Dr. Huge Nibley, 1: Old Testament and Related Subjects, (1986). 3: The World And The Prophets. 4: Mormonism and Early Christianity, (1987).

Ignazio Mancini, O.F.M., (Historical Survey), Archaeological Discoveries, Relative to the Judaeo-Christians, (Jerusalem: Studium Biblicum Franciscanum, Collection minor #10, Franciscan Printing Press, 1970).

Jacob Neusner, (Editor), Origins of Judaism, Volume III, Part 1, Judaism and Christianity in the First Century, (New York; London: Garland Publishing, 1990).

John Lawrence Mosheim, D.D., An Ecclesiastical History, (London: Translated from the original Latin and notes by Archibald Maclaine, D.D., 1819), 6 vols.

John P. Lundy, Monumental Christianity, Or the Art and Symbolism of the Primitive Church, (New York: J. W. Bouton, 1875 & 1882).

John Rupert Martin, The Illustration Of The Heavenly Ladder of John Climacus, (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1954).

Leo MacCauley and Anthony Stephenson, The Works of Saint Cyril of Jerusalem, (Washington D.C.: Catholic University Press, 1964).

Marion P. Ireland, Textile Art in the Church, (Nashville, Tennessee and New York: Abingdon Press, 1966, 1967, & 1971).

Mircea Eliade, Rites and Symbols of Initiation, (New York: Harper and Row, 1958).

The blood covenant; a primitive rite and its bearing on Scripture
by Trumbull, H. Clay (Henry Clay), 1830-1903

Pater Cramer, Baptism and change in the early Middle Ages, c. 200-c. 1150, (Cambridge, England; New York, New York, USA: Cambridge University Press, 1993).

Thomas Armitage, D.D., LL.D., A History Of The Baptists, (New York: Bryah, Taylor, & Chicago: Morningside, 1887).

KTKK 630 AM radio, June 2, 1991, Martin Tanner, host of Religion on the Line, guest: Darell Thorpe, subject: The Journey of the Soul in Early Christian art works and writings. Also: The Mysteries Behind the Mysteries, RITUALISTIC REALM PILGRIMS IN EARLY TO LATER CHRISTIAN MYSTERIES.

 

[briquest]

It's a common mistake citing this passage as "proof" that the canon is closed. People want to give undue weight to the phrase "all scripture is given" and ignoring the full passage (which is actually talking about the purpose of scripture).

THE QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APOSTLE
When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).

Miracles?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/06/miracles?lang=eng
By Elder Dallin H. Oaks
https://www.lds.org/church/leader/dallin-h-oaks?lang=eng
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
https://www.lds.org/church/leader/dallin-h-oaks?lang=eng

From a talk given at a Church Educational System fireside in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, on 7 May 2000.
Miracles happen every day in the work of the Church and in the lives of its members.

When I was a college student, almost 50 years ago, Elder Matthew Cowley (1897–1953) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles spoke to a BYU audience about miracles. That devotional message had a great impact on me, and I have felt to revisit its subject. Like Elder Cowley, I will seek to provide an answer to the prophet Mormon’s question “Has the day of miracles ceased?” (Moro. 7:35). In fact, many miracles happen every day in the work of our Church and in the lives of our members. Many of you have witnessed miracles, perhaps more than you realize.

A miracle has been defined as “a beneficial event brought about through divine power that mortals do not understand and of themselves cannot duplicate.” 1The idea that events are brought about through divine power is rejected by most irreligious people and even by some who are religious. All of us have known people who have what Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles once called “the anti-miracle mind-set.” 2 This rejection of miracles in the last days was prophesied. The prophet Nephi foretold that the Gentiles would “put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain” (2 Ne. 26:20). He also prophesied that churches would be built up in which persons would teach with their learning, deny the power of God, and tell the people that if someone should “say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles” (2 Ne. 28:6).

 

[briquest]

The Second Book of Nephi

Chapter 29
Many Gentiles will reject the Book of Mormon—They will say, We need no more Bible—The Lord speaks to many nations—He will judge the world out of the books which will be written. About 559–545 B.C.

2 Timothy 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[briquest]

Galatians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ironhold]

And the purpose of these extended citations is what now?

Edit -

In all seriousness, I must ask that people please provide some commentary of their own to go along with whatever sources they quote. It makes things a lot easier for us to respond if we know just what you're trying to get at.

 

[briquest]

And the purpose of these extended citations is what now?

Edit -

In all seriousness, I must ask that people please provide some commentary of their own to go along with whatever sources they quote. It makes things a lot easier for us to respond if we know just what you're trying to get at.

Joseph Smith is reported as saying:

I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (History of the Church, 6:408–409. Volume 6 link

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smi...ph_Smith_'boast'_of_keeping_the_Church_intact

In one of his revelations Joseph Smith revealed that Independence was the "center place" of Zion: "Wherefore, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion. And thus saith the Lord your God... Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse." (Doctrine and Covenants 57: 2-3)

In another revelation Joseph Smith quoted the Lord as saying: "And thus, even as I have said, if ye are faithful ye shall assemble yourselves together to rejoice upon the land of Missouri, which is the land of your inheritance, which is now the land of your enemies." (Doctrine and Covenants 52: 42)

In still another revelation we find that those who opposed Mormonism would be "plucked out": "And the rebellious shall be cut out of the land of Zion, and shall be sent away, and shall not inherit the land. For, verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, wherefore they shall be plucked out." (Doctrine and Covenants 64: 35-36)

While we feel the mob's actions cannot be justified, it is certainly understandable that the old settlers would be upset with the influx of Mormons who claimed they were sent by God to take over the land. For example, if a large flood of immigrants were to suddenly come into a city like Logan, Utah, proclaiming that God had given them the city because it was the land of their inheritance, it is likely that the Mormons who lived there would be very concerned about the matter. Although the Mormons are a peaceful people, it is likely that under these circumstances serious problems might develop.

David Whitmer, who was one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, wrote the following:

"The main reason why the printing press was destroyed, was because they published the Book of Commandments. It fell into the hands of the world, and the people of Jackson county, Missouri, saw from the revelations that they were considered by the church as intruders upon the land of Zion, as enemies to the church, and that they should be cut off out of the land of Zion and sent away. The people seeing these things in the Book of Commandments became the more enraged, tore down the printing press, and drove the church out of Jackson county." (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, Richmond, Missouri, 1887, page 54)

Since Joseph Smith had put his prophetic reputation on the line by claiming that the Lord had told him that Independence would be the "center place" of Zion, he was unable to admit defeat. Consequently, he decided to try to reinstate the Mormons in Jackson County by making war on the wicked "Gentiles" (i.e., non-Mormons) who had thwarted his plans. Smith even claimed that on December 16, 1833, he received a revelation from God to attack his enemies:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no88.htm

 

[briquest]

Historical Background
It is clear that the Prophet Joseph Smith received section 132 before it was recorded but delayed making it known. The Prophet knew the Lord’s will on plural marriage within the new and everlasting covenant probably as early as 1831 (see History of the Church, 5:xxix). In March 1843 he spoke to William Clayton of eternal marriage. In July of that year, he was discussing the doctrine with his brother Hyrum in William Clayton’s presence when Hyrum said, “If you will write the revelation on celestial marriage, I will take it and read it to Emma, and I believe I can convince her of its truth, and you will hereafter have peace” (History of the Church, 5:xxxii).

The Prophet consented and told William Clayton to get some paper to write; but to his brother’s “urgent request” that the Prophet use the Urim and Thummimto recall the exact revelation, Joseph replied that he did not need it, “for he knew the revelation from beginning to end” (History of the Church, 5:xxxii). When he had finished dictating, William Clayton read it back slowly, and Joseph said that it was exact.

Bishop Newel K. Whitney heard the revelation read and asked permission of the Prophet Joseph Smith to have it copied. With the Prophet’s approval, Bishop Whitney sent Joseph C. Kingsbury the next day to copy it. Brothers Kingsbury and Clayton compared the copy line by line to the original and found it correct.

The revelation was not made public until Elder Orson Pratt, under the direction of President Brigham Young, announced it at a Church conference on 29 August 1852. The revelation was placed in the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876.

Smith and Sjodahl pointed out that the revelation has two major sections: “The first, comprising vv. 3–33, deals mainly with the principle of celestial marriage, or marriage for time and all eternity; the second, comprising the remaining verses, deals with plural marriage. The doctrine of celestial marriage remains in force; the practice of plural marriage was abandoned by the acceptance by the Church, in Conference assembled October 6th, 1890, of the Manifesto of President Woodruff.” (Commentary, p. 821; also see Historical Background on Official Declaration 1.)

Notes and Commentary
D&C 132:1–2. “Inasmuch As You Have Inquired of My Hand”
“From this introductory statement it is evident that the Prophet had made the question of marriage a subject of earnest prayer, as he did with matters concerning which he was perplexed and desired to know the truth. He did not understand how the Patriarchs, and David and Solomon could find favor with the Lord, while living in a manner contrary to … modern moral standards, and he asked the Lord for light. Elder B. H. Roberts (Hist. of the Church, Vol. V., Intr., p. 29) suggests that it was in the year 1831, when the Prophet was studying the lives of the Patriarchs in the Old Testament, in the course of his Bible revision, that he was led to offer the prayer referred to in the first verse, and received the answer contained in this Section, though it was not then committed to writing.” (Smith and Sjodahl, Commentary, p. 821.)

D&C 132:1. What Are Concubines?
Concubine, a word commonly used in the Old Testament, was defined by Elder Bruce R. McConkie as follows: “Anciently they were considered to besecondary wives, that is, wives who did not have the same standing in the caste system then prevailing as did those wives who were not called concubines. There were no concubines connected with the practice of plural marriage in this dispensation, because the caste system which caused some wives to be so designated did not exist.” (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 154–55.)

D&C 132:3–6. “If Ye Abide Not That Covenant, Then Are Ye Damned”
The “new and everlasting covenant” (D&C 132:4) is the covenant of celestial marriage, as President Spencer W. Kimball stated: “Though relatively few people in this world understand it, the new and everlasting covenant is the marriage ordinance in the holy temple by the properly constituted leaders who hold the genuine, authoritative keys. This glorious blessing is available to men and women on this earth.” (“Temples and Eternal Marriage,” Ensign, Aug. 1974, p. 5.)

One can sense the importance of accepting the covenant from the number of times the Lord repeats this warning:

“All who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same” (D&C 132:3).

“If ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned” (v. 4).

“No one can reject this covenant and … enter into my glory” (v. 4).

“All who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law” (v. 5).

“He that receiveth a fulness [of my glory] must and shall abide the law” (v. 6).


WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Ephesians 5:31 - For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall
be one flesh.

WIFE. MAN = ONE

Matthew 5:32 - But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:39 - The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

Read more: http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow...iage-20-great-scripture-quotes/#ixzz3e8pcAKdi

 

[RDKatz]

Perhaps not the best example, because aside from the very famous example of David and Bathsheba, kings like Solomon and David did not take multiple wives because they had runaway libidos. They took them because that was how alliances were made in antiquity. That is why Solomon in particular takes foreign wives. In some ways, these wives served as hostages.



Not so much Christianity because the polygamy was against Roman Law. Besides, early on celibacy was considered the ideal Christian life. In Islam polygamy was allowed but never the ideal.



In the Tanakh sheol is merely the grave. It is not what Christians typically consider hell.

But my question remains, do you think monogamy or polygamy should be the ideal?

I don't think that there is or should be an ideal. Culturally, one man and one woman has become the norm. We were all brought up with that norm. I think the decision of what is right or not should be determined at the family level. It seems that SCOTUS agrees with me.

 

[smaneck]

I don't think that there is or should be an ideal. Culturally, one man and one woman has become the norm. We were all brought up with that norm. I think the decision of what is right or not should be determined at the family level. It seems that SCOTUS agrees with me.

Indeed, but the LDS Church fought that position tooth and nail as far as its application to same-ex marriage. I found ironic given their own history.

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Good text!

It strikes at the very core of the problem - the very thing that is supposed to sustain doctrine that contradicts the Bible -- which is that someone claims "well an angel told me to do it" -- is the very thing Paul condemns.

 

[Ironhold]

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no88.htm

I've personally caught the Tanners doctoring citations, and so I no longer accept anything provided by them as being valid.

 

[Ironhold]

WIFE. MAN = ONE

This goes back to David being "given" his wives...

Matthew 5:32

- But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

This may be the best-case scenario, but it's sadly not how the real world works.

Seriously - read up some more on the issue from the LDS side.

 

[Ironhold]

Good text!

It strikes at the very core of the problem - the very thing that is supposed to sustain doctrine that contradicts the Bible -- which is that someone claims "well an angel told me to do it" -- is the very thing Paul condemns.

...except that John the Revelator notes that an angel will appear with the everlasting gospel.

 

[RestoredGospelEvidences]

THE QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APOSTLE
When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).

Miracles?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/06/miracles?lang=eng
By Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

From a talk given at a Church Educational System fireside in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, on 7 May 2000.
Miracles happen every day in the work of the Church and in the lives of its members.

When I was a college student, almost 50 years ago, Elder Matthew Cowley (1897–1953) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles spoke to a BYU audience about miracles. That devotional message had a great impact on me, and I have felt to revisit its subject. Like Elder Cowley, I will seek to provide an answer to the prophet Mormon’s question “Has the day of miracles ceased?” (Moro. 7:35). In fact, many miracles happen every day in the work of our Church and in the lives of our members. Many of you have witnessed miracles, perhaps more than you realize.

A miracle has been defined as “a beneficial event brought about through divine power that mortals do not understand and of themselves cannot duplicate.” 1The idea that events are brought about through divine power is rejected by most irreligious people and even by some who are religious. All of us have known people who have what Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles once called “the anti-miracle mind-set.” 2 This rejection of miracles in the last days was prophesied. The prophet Nephi foretold that the Gentiles would “put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain” (2 Ne. 26:20). He also prophesied that churches would be built up in which persons would teach with their learning, deny the power of God, and tell the people that if someone should “say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles” (2 Ne. 28:6).

Brightquest: "First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16)."

"Eyewitness": That would make a lot of Apostles throughout history, for there are all kinds of saints, & people that testify that they've seen the wandering Christ-child, or a wandering adult Christ, sometimes guised in different testing-guises, during his world wide treks, (traditions derived from Matt. 25).

Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons, LDS), often testify that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he has been seen of them, they are eye witnesses that he lives, has a Ressurrected body, glorified & perfected.

"...We lay no claim to being Apostles of the world—but of the Lord Jesus Christ. The test is not whether men will believe, but whether the Lord has called us—and of that there is no doubt! We do not talk of those sacred interviews that qualify the servants of the Lord to bear a special witness of Him, for we have been commanded not to do so. But we are free, indeed, we are obliged, to bear that special witness. . . . I feel compelled, on this 150th anniversary of the Church, to certify to you that I know that the day of miracles has not ceased. I know that angels minister unto men. I am a witness to the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Only Begotten of the Father; that He has a body of flesh and bone; that He knows those who are His servants here and that He is known of them. . . ." (Apostle, Boyd K. Packer, April 1980 Conference Talk, A Tribute to the Rank & File of the Church).

"... And what is our message? First and foremost, it is that God does live, that he is our Eternal Father and our Creator. All human beings are his offspring. Knowing this, we accept the commandment of the Savior to perfect ourselves so that we may be like him.
Next we affirm that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed the Christ... He is the Savior of mankind! He is the Redeemer of all flesh! He did arise from the grave. He is risen, as the angel said, in physical, corporeal reality. And he lives today! Our modern prophets have seen him face to face and have talked with him. We know that he lives. . ." (Apostle, Mark E. Petersen, General Conference talk, April 1980, Where Do We Stand?)

Brightquest: "Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49)."

See: Boyd K. Packer, April 1980 Conference Talk, A Tribute to the Rank & File of the Church.

"...Above all, the Lord Himself appeared and reappeared, “That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world” (D&C 1:23). . . Who would dare to say that angels do not now attend the rank and file of the Church ... and have brought this work through 150 years? ... Who would dare to say that the day of miracles has ceased? Those things have not changed in 150 years, [April 1830 -- April 1980], not changed at all. For the power and inspiration of the Almighty rests upon this people today as surely as it did in those days of beginning: “It is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief” (Moro. 7:37). The prophet Moroni taught that angelic messengers would accomplish their work “by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him. “And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts” (Moro. 7:31–32). There has come, these last several years, a succession of announcements that show our day to be a day of intense revelation, equaled, perhaps, only in those days of beginning, 150 years ago. But then, as now, the world did not believe. They say that ordinary men are not inspired; that there are no prophets, no apostles; that angels do not minister unto men—not to ordinary men. That doubt and disbelief have not changed. But now, as then, their disbelief cannot change the truth. . . ."

Modern-Day Miracles: From the Files of President Harold B. Lee, by L. Brent Goates.

Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie, Oct. 1981, Who Hath Believed Our Report?

Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie, April 1980, General Conference, The Coming Tests & Trials & Glory, As in the past, so in the future: "...Amid it all, there are revelations and visions and prophecies. There are gifts and signs and miracles. There is a rich outpouring of the Holy Spirit of God...."

McConkie, April 1982, The Doctrine of the Priesthood. "...Truly, there is power in the priesthood—power to do all things! If the world itself was created by the power of the priesthood, surely that same power can move mountains and control the elements. If one-third of the hosts of heaven were cast down to earth by the power of the priesthood, surely that same power can put at defiance the armies of nations or stay the fall of atomic bombs. If all men shall be raised from mortality to immortality by the power of the priesthood, surely that same power can cure the diseased and the dying and raise the dead...."

Elder Yoshihiko Kikuchi, Oct. 1979, General Conference talk, Send Missionaries from Every Nation, "...Shortly afterward, Brother Sugiyama followed the Lord’s commandment by becoming baptized.... The morning following his baptism, he woke up bright and early. He stretched his legs out in preparation to roll over as usual. But this time, brothers and sisters, something was different. He felt strength in his legs, and his whole body surged with power. He sat up and gradually, eventually, stood on his feet. He hadn’t stood in years without other supports. He walked away that morning! He found that his body had been made whole. Said the Savior to a similar one who had been healed by faith, “Thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace” (Mark 5:34). Brother Sugiyama said, “Love hath made me whole, and I will go in peace in the Lord’s way.” Brothers and sisters, miracles are not the only evidences of the true Church of God, but we can learn much from the miracle performed by the Lord through a great young Mormon missionary who loved his investigator so much...."

Apostle, Matthew Cowley, Brigham Young University student body on 18 February 1953, talk entitled: Miracles.

To name of few examples. The points of Brightquest or not clear in some post, but if the intent is to suggest that there is no miracles amongst The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or not any real Apostles, then in answer to this: Mormon testify that there are modern day Prophets & Apostles & that the spiritual gifts, with the miracles that follow, have been experienced, felt & witnessed all over the restored church.

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Good text!
It strikes at the very core of the problem - the very thing that is supposed to sustain doctrine that contradicts the Bible -- which is that someone claims "well an angel told me to do it" -- is the very thing Paul condemns.

...except that John the Revelator notes that an angel will appear with the everlasting gospel.

The text of Gal 1 does not say to disbelieve whatever an Angel says - but it DOES say that if when you compare what the Angel said to what you have in the Bible - and you have "another Gospel" -- that the angel is to be accursed.

And in Rev 14 we are not told that an angel comes with "another gospel" rather it says that the Angel has THE everlasting Gospel and then it tells us what that Gospel message is - right there in the text of Rev 14.

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

What denomination has stated as it's "mission", its reason for existence - to proclaim the very message IN that text - the Gospel just as those 3 angels state it?

Notice that the judgment hour Gospel message of Rev 14:6-7 is also in Romans 2:13-16.

 

[RestoredGospelEvidences]

Brightquest's posts seem to be intended to be a "shot gun" anti-Mormon tactics to try to get in so many issues & that it would take Mormons too much time to try to answer them all. It's a waste of time because a lot of these issues have already been answered many times.

In a very biased way, the critics have used only certain portions of the History of the Church, to make it appear that Joseph boasted in an arrogant way. The early Christians also made similar comments, of which I suppose may have been blow out of proportion by early anti-Christians. S. Cyril of Jerusalem in the 4th cent. A.D., wrote that they in becoming Christians, the Christians are therefore called by a new name, & are as if "Christs." "...Being therefore made partakers of Christ, ye are properly called Christs, & of you God said, Touch not My Christs, or anointed...Now ye were made Christs..." In the rituals of some of the early Christian sects, they would go through the mysteries as if, (in a symbolical way), they were a "Christ." Many of the symbols of the mysteries centered on Christ's death on the cross, the descent into the spirit world, the resurrection & later the ascension into heaven, etc.. So in this journey of the soul through the rites, they would act as if they were an anointed one, or a Christ, as Cyril of Jer. mentioned in his lectures on the Mysteries. So, it could be made to sound like the early Christians were going around boasting that they were Christs & saviors.

Anti-Mormons seem to want to try to get their readers to think that Mormons think they are the best people, their prophets are boastful, & they think that they are "Saviors" or "redeemers!" Then the critics like to point out the crimes & other "evils" of Mormons, & vilify them in general as being evil, satanic & cultic. Distorting LDS quotes, they try to make the false claim that Mormons are suppose to "accept Joseph Smith" as their personal savior in the traditional way that modern born-again Christian have with Christ. But this would not be a correct conclusion. I have sat in anti-Mormon meetings in which this misinterpretation, & misrepresentation has been expounded upon. It is a false conclusion. All J.F. Smith was saying, was that Joseph Smith was a prophet, & if you accept him, you accept the restored gospel, & the Christ of the restoration, & it will save you. Just as if you had lived in Noah's day & had accepted him as telling the truth, you would have been saved from the flood, but if you rejected him, then you would not have been saved. The early anti-Christians in primitive times, were also concerned with the Christians claim to revelations to them only, so the critics thought. Celsus (2nd century anti-Christian), must have been aware that many of the early Christians believed that other peoples around the world, in those in the realms of the spirits could be saved through the gospel, but he ignored this, in one part of his writings, in order to charge that Christians are such egotists, that they believe that they will be the only ones saved, while everyone else will be roasted in the fire, when God brings the fire, like a cook, upon the world. Perhaps even in Origen's book against the Celsus, we see how he thought that the Christian religion was better that the superstitious doctrines of wicked men. "...Whereas the Churches of God which are instructed by Christ, when carefully contrasted with assemblies of the districts in which they are situated, are as beacons...in the world; for who would not admit that even the inferior members of the Church, & those who in comparison with the better are less worthy, are nevertheless more excellent than many of those who belong to the assemblies in the different districts?" Was Origen then boasting that they were "the best people"?
Justin Martyr in the 2nd cent. A.D. wrote: "...Christians received the death sentence simply because of their name. Justin himself, in his 1st Apology," "addressed to Emperor Antoninus Pius, begged for nothing more than that specific charges be presented against the Christians & that only if the charges were substantiated should the person involved be punished as they deserved. But, he argued, if no one could bring proof of criminal activities then their punishment simply for being Christian was a gross violation of reason & justice. "By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; & indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are a most excellent people." Justin also argued that the name Christian means "good."

"In the second part of the sentence Justin referred to the occasional spelling of the name "Christian" as Chrestianus in Latin, & the coincidence that in the Greek language the word Chrestos means "good." So, in the same chapter he wrote: "For we are accused of being Christians (Crestiani) but to hate what is good (Chrestos) is unjust." This is, of course, merely a play on words, more bitter than sarcastic."

Celsus charged that the Christians thought of themselves as being above other people, that they were "arrogant" boastful, & yet they were an "unsavory" group of people. So what ever the judgment that the Modern critics feel that should be past on the Mormons, such judgment may also have to fall back on their own earlier Christian roots. However, if they should allow for the early Christians to make the statements that they made, they shouldn't mind it too much if Mormons & their prophets boast a little too, while also being humans that make mistake. So it shouldn't shock anyone to find out that Mormon apostles & prophets also use pencils with errasers.

So for the Brightquests types: It's a continual mis-use for vilification purposes, continual Misquotes, distortions, & misrepresentations of Mormon sources that we continually see on this Christian forum & all over the internet. This one, from Vol.6 of History of the Church, is one example in many that could be presented. Take a look at the setting for JS' boast, which is derived from Paul, 2 Cor.11, which is often left out by critics. (See: 2 Cor.11:10-33). But was Joseph Smith evil for boasting? Was Paul? Of course not. If it was a sin, it's one of those forgiveable ones.

Brightquest makes other jabs & tries to make claims that revelations, prophecies, & orders to kill enemies are to be credited to the Prophet Joseph Smith, (a standard which if done of Biblical prophets, would damn them too). Also, Brightquest then uses a questionable source, another anti-Mormon, a ministery known to be selective in their presentations, to cite things that would vilify, & ignore things that don't & would counter their goals to present every case of bad breath, deoderant failure, pimple, crusty in the nostrils of Mormons they can collect.

Bibliography: John Taylor, Journal of Discourses Vol.6, p.163. Library of Fathers, 2: p.267-9. Journal of Discourses Vol.6, p.229. History of the Church, Vol.7 p.287 etc. Doctrines of Salvation Vol.1 p.198-190, Joseph Fielding Smith. Early Christian Civilization, Pellistrandi, 180-199. ANF, 4:549 bk.5 chap.14 & Hoffmann, Celsus On The True Doctrien, op. cit., p.41, 59-61, & 86. ANF Vol.4 p.476 bk.3 chap.29 (Origen Against Celsus). Pagan Rome & The Early Christians, Benko, p.1-2, see also footnote 2 on p.24, Justin Martyr Apol. 1.3-4; ANF 1.163ff. "For a collection of passages from the writings of the early Christian fathers concerning this play on words, see Stephen Benko, "Pagan Criticism of Christianity," Aufstieg und Niedergang der romischen Welt. II. 32/2 (Berlin: Walter de Gruyter, 1980), p. 105. Rev. Joseph Milner, A. M., & Rev. Isaac Milner, D.D. F.R.S., The History of The Church of Christ, (London: Printed by Luke Hansard & Sons, For T. Cadel, In the Strand, 1827), 528--542. DT rough draft, Mega File, large one on parallels between early anti-Christians & modern critics.