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What's so bad about condoms?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by scraparcs, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. scraparcs

    scraparcs Fear the taco.

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    The more I think about it, the more I just don't get it. I can understand artificial birth control that can possibly be abortifacent not being allowed, but what is the issue with condoms? With NFP it seems like couples deliberately have sex during infertile periods. It seems like using a calendar to keep sperm and egg apart. With a condom it's a piece of rubber. So what's the difference?
     
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  2. Eucharisted

    Eucharisted New Member

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    Condoms are used by couples for two purposes: To prevent pregnancy and to prevent the spread of diseases. Because of the former, they are a type of contra-ception, which prevent con-ception: the transmission of human life.

    Scientifically speaking, sex is reproduction and reproduction is the transmission of human life. But the world believes sex is recreational - pregnancy doesn't have to result from sex - because the world has forgotten common sense.

    Philosophically speaking, sex is marital, because it is reproductive, and the reason the world believes sex is recreational is because the world indulges in sins of the flesh, and sin, the more you commit it, clouds your conscience.
     
  3. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    I don't think you've answered his/her question. What's the difference between contraception via choosing your timing and contraception via using a piece of latex?
     
  4. City Smurf

    City Smurf Regular Member

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    Oh I don't see any real difference. Some would argue that it's using natural infertile periods.. but in my eyes it's very simple. Sex is for procreation. End off. Separating that truth from the act, even by using a calendar is still wrong.

    Just don't have sex if you're not interested in procreation. If you time it to reduce the risks of a pregnancy you're still trying to avoid a pregnancy whilst enjoying the act of sex..

    It's like in the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix novel when Fred and George came of age and started whipping their wands out for every little thing and apparating every couple of feet. Just because you can doesn't mean you must.
     
  5. JourneyToPeace

    JourneyToPeace His law is love and His gospel is peace

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    I think the difference is that when someone uses natural family planning to AVOID having a baby (choosing the timing), they MUST be open to at least the possibility of still having a child anyways -- after all, timing isn't everything. But more to the point, a lot of people seem to use NFP to ENCOURAGE pregnancy -- by trying for a baby during the MOST fertile times of a month. The idea is to time your cycle so that you stand the best possible chance of getting pregnant when, ideally, you want to get pregnant..... when it comes down to it, as a "method", NFP seems to be more open to new life happening.

    Condoms, when used as contraception, do NOT have a 100% success rate either (neither do birth control pills, or anything else combined) -- trust me, I know.... and yet the use of condoms as a "method" is not open to new life happening. People who use condoms to prevent pregnancy do NOT want to get pregnant at that present time, and are deliberately taking steps to prevent it.

    And honestly, in our culture, condoms are seen as some odd sort of guarantee: as in, "we're being safe, we're being responsible, we don't want kids right now so we're using condoms -- and/or foam -- and/or pills -- and/or insert anything else here." The implication is that BECAUSE people are using these things, they think they can have sex without having to be responsible for a baby.

    In the last few weeks, I have PERSONALLY heard the following argument: "why SHOULDN'T you get an abortion? We were careful, it's not like we weren't using protection. I'm not ready for kids. We shouldn't have to DEAL with that." -- as though because we were "good" and used condoms and other contraception, our "reward" should be not having to raise a baby.

    And, quite frankly, I found the argument to ring quite hollowly. I honestly wish to God, every day, that I saw the fault in this empty logic a long, long time before I finally did. I can only thank God that He opened my heart to see the truth, and to see that the ideas our culture puts out there can be dangerous.

    Edited to add: don't get me wrong on one thing -- I LOVE the little life growing inside me. I love babies. I always have. But I used to mistakenly believe that artificial contraception would actually work effectively, and that it was right or okay to use, in order to justify having a sexual relationship outside of marriage. I can't speak to the notion of using it IN a marriage, as I haven't ever had that experience. But I hold the view and the belief, now, that it's better to be open to life happening if you're going to choose to have sex. Constant fear of pregnancy isn't healthy for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  6. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    The logic there seems wanting - it (appears) to amount to "x can be used to enhance or hinder, using it to enhance is good therefore it's okay to use it to hinder but not to use y that can only hinder to hinder".
     
  7. JourneyToPeace

    JourneyToPeace His law is love and His gospel is peace

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    Yep, the logic is wanting -- thanks for pointing it out. You're right. And I appreciate the correction.

    What I should clarify is that deliberately using NFP or artificial birth control to reduce the chance of life happening isn't ideal or desirable, and I don't personally LIKE the attitude behind either option. But again, I am not speaking to married couples. Not being a wife, I don't feel qualified. I am mostly speaking to people, in general, who decide to have sex when they're not ready to have a baby. I've realized, over the last while, that if you're not ready to have a baby, you should not be choosing to have sex.

    I guess I was just looking at the two options, and kind of saying "well, if someone is GOING to have sex, but wants to prevent disease/pregnancy and decides to use NFP or artificial contraception..... which would be MORE 'open' to life, TECHNICALLY?" -- and in that sense, I guess the NFP won out in my mind. The "lesser" of two evils, if we're measuring on the scale of "which method DOES affirm new life, even somewhat".

    Not that either of the evils are at all good for us, when it comes down to it. Preventing pregnancy is preventing pregnancy.

    I'd better stop there. I am tired and more than a little nauseated tonight.

    Hope I made an iota of sense. If not, just disregard please. :)
     
  8. Memento Mori

    Memento Mori Guest

    There is a reason why NFP is moral and condoms are not. The issue is really the nature of sex and not so much the desire to plan your pregnancies, though that's part of the rhetoric.

    A condom alters what sex is; NFP doesn't.

    There's more to it, but I'm off to bed. Check out the Theology of the Body!
     
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  9. Gwendolyn

    Gwendolyn trying to figure things out

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    That's pretty much it. One method is natural (nfp). The other isn't (condoms).
     
  10. MoNiCa4316

    MoNiCa4316 Totus Tuus

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    using condoms is like saying "we want to do this but we don't care about the consequences. If God wants to create a new child through this, we don't care, we don't want this child!". It's basically an act of defiance towards creation. Only God can decide when to create and when not to create.

    With NFP it's different because the couple is not doing what leads to conception in the first place.

    Condoms (and all birth control) separate sex from one of its purposes, which is procreation.
     
  11. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    There must be more to it than that - thre are plenty of things we do that use artificial devices without making the action sinful.
     
  12. MoNiCa4316

    MoNiCa4316 Totus Tuus

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    cause with NFP, the couple doesn't have sex... as Jared said, "a condom alters what sex is; NFP doesn't". That's basically the reason.

    God made sex for A) procreation B) union between the couple

    every sexual sin goes against either A) or B). Contraception, birth control, abortion, homosexual acts, go against A). Rape, masturbation, etc, go against B).
     
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  13. MoNiCa4316

    MoNiCa4316 Totus Tuus

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    it's not the artificial part that makes it sinful.... but the part that alters the purpose/meaning of sex
     
  14. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    I don't see that it alters the purpose any more than using timing does. I appreaciate the effort, but I'm not seeing it I'm afraid.
     
  15. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    They choose when the will have sex. The intention is the same, the element of choice is the same, the outcome is the same, ...
     
  16. MoNiCa4316

    MoNiCa4316 Totus Tuus

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    Ok.. well how can the purpose of sex be altered if sex does not take place? (that's in NFP) if you take something away, you're not altering its purpose. For example, if a person is celibate cause they're waiting for marriage, or they've chosen a life of celibacy, - they're not anti-life for that reason! they're not rebelling against God by not allowing conception to occur... cause they're not having sex to being with. But if a sexual act takes place, openness to life must be there. That's why condoms are bad, cause the couple actually does have sex. Does that make more sense?
     
  17. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    If someone is consistently choosing to have sex during the infertile time and not during the fertile time, in the long run they are making exactly the same choice as some inhibiting conception by another means.

    (Note, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here - just giving you the opportunity to change mine and hopefully letting you see why I don't get your point of view.)
     
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  18. Memento Mori

    Memento Mori Guest

    OK, I lied. One more comment before bed. Sex is more than the stimulation between the genitalia, and by using a condom you are choosing to turn sex into something God didn't make it to be. During sex the gametes pass from the male to the female. That's how it is in animals too.

    To put it bluntly, sex with a condom is just stimulating each other's genitalia. It is not the procreative union God made. And yes, NFP can be misused to be closed to life, but then the guilt is with the couple's intentions, not the sexual act. The sexual act does not become disordered like it does with a condom.
     
  19. MoNiCa4316

    MoNiCa4316 Totus Tuus

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    No prob :)

    the Church does say that if a couple chooses to use NFP, it should be for a valid reason, not just cause they don`t want kids. For example, if they can`t afford more kids. Reasons like that. But it`s different from condoms because as I said, sex doesn`t take place. I`m not sure how to explain it beyond what I said.. hmm.. I`m sorry if my explanation isn`t good. It`s just that the problem with contraception is that it changes what sex is. By abstaining, a couple isn`t changing anything.
     
  20. Memento Mori

    Memento Mori Guest

    posting this last comparison (I'm bad about logging out!)

    condom use: wrong intention + disordered sexual act
    NFP misuse: wrong intention + natural sexual act