What is your Statement of Faith?

stuart lawrence

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Yes, it is true that one needs to be born again and spiritually changed by God to be able obey (Ezekiel 36:26-27). But believers ultimately are not doing the good work. It is Christ who does the good work in their lives when they surrender to Him (1 Corinthians 15:10) (Philippians 2:13).

Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is not speaking about those who have been born again. Believers will not remain in their sin as a way of life (1 Peter 4:1) (Galatians 5:24).

Also references in how we are not justified by the Law is speaking of the ceremonial and judicial laws within the Old Covenant Law of Moses. This is evident by looking at the context that mentions "circumcision." Simply look at the previous chapters.

However, there are many Commandments in the New Testament that a believer has to obey (with great peril to their soul if they do not obey). For example: Jesus says if we do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive us (Matthew 6:15). John says if we hate our brother we are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).


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When Paul states the christian dies to the law/they are not under the law, he Is referring to a law of righteousness(rom10:4) and he means the whole law in this regard, including the ten commandments as can easily be proved from scripture. Many mistakenly believe he is only referring to the mosaic law minus the ten commandments
 
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When Paul states the christian dies to the law/they are not under the law, he Is referring to a law of righteousness(rom10:4) and he means the whole law in this regard, including the ten commandments as can easily be proved from scripture. Many mistakenly believe he is only referring to the mosaic law minus the ten commandments

But then you have a contradiction in Scripture in many places then. Not to mention you are sacrificing morality or the goodness of God in the process, too. What makes you think Matthew 6:15 and 1 John 3:15 does not apply to the believer anymore? Do you not know that Paul essentially said that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing? (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

I mean does not life teach you that good guys do good and bad guys do evil?

I mean, there would be no point in following God if I would remain as the same person that I used to be.

If you believe there are no laws (with any bad consequences for the believer in the after-life for disobeying them), have you ever considered doing a study on the Commands in the New Testament to see if there are any?

Here is a list of 1,050 New Testament Commands:

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

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So seashells on tops of mountains did not miraculously erode away over millions of years?

And the discovery of T-Rex blood in one of it's bones doesn't do anything for you?

...

Also, the Day Age Theory and the Gap Theory are a bit of a stretch on the text in Genesis chapter 1. A normal reading of Genesis 1 gives us no clue that such Theories are even true.

...
 
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Goatee

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Loopy people believe the earthy is 6,000 years old.

Do you realise how long it takes for oil to form? How long it takes for coal to form etc etc etc? Do you realise how long it takes for a fossil to form?
 
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stuart lawrence

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But then you have a contradiction in Scripture in many places then. Not to mention you are sacrificing morality or the goodness of God in the process, too. What makes you think Matthew 6:15 and 1 John 3:15 does not apply to the believer anymore? Do you not know that Paul essentially said that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing? (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

I mean does not life teach you that good guys do good and bad guys do evil?

I mean, there would be no point in following God if I would remain as the same person that I used to be.

If you believe there are no laws (with any bad consequences for the believer in the after-life for disobeying them), have you ever considered doing a study on the Commands in the New Testament to see if there are any?

Here is a list of 1,050 New Testament Commands:

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

...

The new covenant


Now you may be wondering why people cannot act however they like if they do not have to be good enough for God. For if their salvation hinges on faith, and not being good enough under the law, surely they can do whatever they want without a care in the world. People should be free to rob a bank, for instance, and not worry about it, for they are righteous in God’s sight by faith, and that has no bearing on how they live out their lives, correct?

Well to answer this important point, I would like to draw your attention to a huge difference between the Old Covenant that existed before Christ died on the cross, and the New Covenant that followed. The writer of Hebrews states in the tenth chapter and the sixteenth and seventeenth verses: “‘This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts and I will write them on their minds.’ Then He adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’” (NIV)

Now what does it mean to put God’s laws in the hearts and write them on the minds of new converts? Well, I like the way the Living Bible puts verse sixteen: “‘I will write My laws into their minds so that they will always know My will, and I will put My laws in their hearts so that they will want to obey them.’”

It means, therefore, converts will want to obey the good and holy laws of God in their hearts. Now this does not mean a long list of laws will flash before their eyes every waking minute of their lives. No. It means that in their minds they instinctively know how God wants them to live, and in their hearts they want to live as God desires. They no longer seek a life of sin, but a life in line with God’s will. They have in this sense been born again. That is what Jesus told Nicodemus must happen the night he came to see Him in John 3:3: “‘Very truly I tell you No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.’” (NIV)

New converts are changed by the Holy Spirit who has entered their lives. He lives in them, and their conscience will now bear witness to wrong things in their lives in a way it did not before. This is an amazing thing God does for those who come to His Son. No man could

bring about such a change in himself − only God could − and it is a provision He makes for all those who accept His Son as their Lord and Saviour.

You see, the Israelites in the Old Testament had the written law – the laws they were to follow to live as God desired. God gave that law to them at Mt. Sinai. The most famous of these laws were the Ten Commandments, though God gave many other laws, as well. Most of the time, however, those written laws stood against the Israelites because in their hearts they didn’t want to follow God. They almost mechanically strove to obey because the law was not written on their hearts. They thought they would be all right if they simply followed certain rules, regulations, and ceremonies. It is the heart that matters most to God, however, and their hearts were far away from Him most of the time, whereas those who are born again under the New Covenant want in their hearts to obey God.

God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff-necked people who would soon desert Him once they reached the Promised Land. Their history as a nation records that most of the time they turned away from God, got into a mess, and found themselves in dire situations. Then they repented of their wrongs and asked for God’s help, and He forgave them and got them out of the messes they were in. This was a cycle they repeated over and over again. It wasn’t always like this, but the vast majority of the time it was. So you see, having the written law didn’t in itself help them, because their hearts were far from God most of the time.

But that was the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, which reigns supreme today, God has softened our hearts by putting the desire to obey Him within us. The prophet Ezekiel wrote of this hundreds of years before Christ died on the cross. He says in the thirty-sixth chapter of his book and the twenty-sixth and twenty-seventh verses: “‘I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.’” (NIV)

God says “I will” three times in the above verse. You see, friend, it is what God does for us. He will give us new hearts. He will remove our hearts of stone and give us hearts of flesh. He will put his Spirit within us and move us to want to obey His laws. God will do these things for all those who accept His Son as their Saviour.

So not only do we have a totally free salvation, but when we come to God through His Son, God changes us into people who want to please and obey Him in our hearts. Now anyone who wants to obey God in his or her heart cannot at the same time wilfully − without conscience − seek to disobey Him, correct? Such a thing is not possible.

Now when you are born again something significant happens. You become aware of your sin before God for the first time in your life. In order for us to understand why this is so, we need to understand what sin actually is. The disciple John tells us in 1 John 3:4, “Sin is the transgression of the law.” (KJV)

So we see the definition of sin. It is breaking the law of God. The Apostle Paul states in Romans 3:20, “Through the law we become conscious of our sin.” (NIV)

You see, friend, only when you are conscious of God’s laws can you be conscious of your shortfall of obedience to those laws, and your shortfall of obedience is your sin. For sin is breaking the law of God. Before you become a Christian, you sin in ignorance of the fact that you are sinning. Once you become a Christian, however, the spotlight has been turned on. Through the knowledge of God’s laws placed on our hearts and written on our minds, therefore, we have knowledge in our hearts of how far short we fall in obedience to God’s laws. At that point, we have a heartfelt conviction of our sin.

Now we have looked at what it means to be born again. Let us now look at the second core component of the New Covenant the Christian is under, which is found in verse seventeen: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’” So under the terms of the New Covenant, a person’s sins (which are lawless acts) will be remembered no more. We know this is true, of course, because Jesus died for our sins at Calvary.

At the very moment you accept Christ as your Saviour, therefore, the Holy Spirit places the law God wants you to keep on your heart and writes it on your mind. You are born again. This results in you desiring in your heart to live as God wants you to. Because that is what you want, Jesus is an atonement for your sin.

You see, friend, God is not stupid. He had it all figured out. He did not create a covenant whereby those who know they have a righteousness before Him apart from the law would then use that knowledge as a licence to sin. He created a covenant whereby He places the desire to obey Him in the hearts of those who accept His Son as their Saviour. Because that is what they want, He will remember their sins no more. So we see the two foundational principles of the New Covenant are inextricably linked. God changes us into people who want to obey, and because we do, Christ paid the penalty of our sin.

You see, there is what we can term an “unbridgeable gap” that will be reflected in our lives. That gap is the difference between the perfect demands of God’s good and holy laws and our obedience to them. Now as I have met no one who has claimed to be perfect in his or her flesh, I have met no one who has ever claimed to obey God’s laws perfectly. We all fall short, every one of us. Thus we can say, “Christ died to bridge the unbridgeable gap.” The more we follow the true path of the Gospel message, the narrower the gap becomes. A gap, however, will always remain, friend, for you will never be perfect in your flesh.

I would once again place before you the basis of the covenant the Christian is under, friend, for it is something we need to fully appreciate to move forward in the Christian faith. So once again, here Hebrews 10:16-17: “‘This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds.’ Then He adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’” (NIV)
 
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stuart lawrence

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At the tender age of ten I responded to an altar call in a 'born again' fundamentalist church. I knew at that moment I was spotless in God's sight, cleansed of any imperfections(sin) in my life. For once I accepted Christ as my saviour I became conscious of my sin for the first time in my life, for the law God desired me to keep had been written on my mind and placed on my heart by the spirit, and through that law we become conscious of our sin(rom3:20) For sin is transgression of the law(1John 3:4)
As you do now, I believed in a law of righteousness for the Christian in regard of the Ten Commandments(the moral law as it is often stated) I set out on the Christian path determined to life the life God wanted for me according to his good and Holy laws. However, the harder I tried to live as God wanted me to the more I failed. I would ask God to forgive me of my sins, and I believed he did, and once again I was in that cleansed state from all my sin. However, the sin kept coming back, and it grew stronger. Eventually I was less convinced God would forgive me of my sin, for it was getting stronger in me, and I was getting weaker spiritually. All manner of concupiscence was aroused in me. I felt rotten, dirty and ashamed. I was becoming consumed by sin. Before I became a Christian I had felt alive, but when the commandment came sin(consciousness) sprang to life in me and I died(spiritually) The commandment which was ordained to life(if I obeyed it) I found to be unto death(for I could not keep it). Sin, had through the law brought death and condemnation to me. However, I knew there was nothing wrong with God's good and holy laws, the problem was my sin.
In the following Paul is speaking of when the law came to him as a Pharisee. He states:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin(consciousness) revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom 7:7-13

So I had found the same result Paul did when I tried to obey a law of righteousness. Yet he was speaking of his life as a Pharisee, I was going to a born again fundamentalist church at the time. Please do not respond by saying we must rely on the holy Spirit. Paul wrote rom 7:7-13 as an example of why he had to die to the law-of righteousness(in the previous three verses he insisted the Christian must do this) The example he gave was .'Thou shalt not covet' which is one of the Ten Commandments. He as a Pharisee, and I as a Christian had both tried to observe a righteousness before God of obedience to the Ten Commandments. We both received the same result.
And I have to wonder, how anyone can follow a law of righteousness concerning these commands and not have the same result Paul and I had.

The victory over sin is not living under a law of righteousness-according to Paul, but under grace Rom 6:14
 
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Loopy people believe the earthy is 6,000 years old.

Do you realise how long it takes for oil to form? How long it takes for coal to form etc etc etc? Do you realise how long it takes for a fossil to form?

Not millions of years. Scientists have produced coal to oil in laborateries.

http://creation.com/how-fast-can-oil-form

And there have been many man made modern objects that have been found that are fossilized.


....
 
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Goatee

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Lol, that link from Creation Ministries!! So no real backup to 6,000 year old earth!

Do you believe in a local or a global flood?
I am just curious.


....
 
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Goatee

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Do you believe in a local or a global flood?
I am just curious.


....

Never really thought about it myself.

Anyway, how you can agree the earth is 6,000 years old is beyond me.
 
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Never really thought about it myself.

A lot of folks who believe in an old Earth believe in a local flood (Which is very easy to refute with the Bible).

Anyway, how you can agree the earth is 6,000 years old is beyond me.

Bible implies the Earth is young and not old. Also, there are hundreds of evidences that make it obvious. But then again, I know why people don't believe in it.

...
 
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However, it is not evidence that should convince a person but it should be the Bible (then evidence).

Here is a quote from an article:

"Biblical Consequences to Believing in an Old Earth

There are a great many Biblical or theological consequences to believing in an old earth. I will outline many of them for you.

1. Believing in an old earth requires God to call death, pain, suffering and disease of animals for millions of years “very good.” How, in the old earth scenario, could God have called everything “very good” at the end of the sixth day (Genesis 1:31)? If the earth is old, animals have been killing other animals for millions of years, diseases such as arthritis and cancer existed before man existed because bone cancer is found in the fossil record, and catastrophes destroyed living things that had the breath of life. This old earth belief results in impugning the integrity of God, because one would have to conclude that God is the author of death, pain, suffering and disease, including arthritis and cancer. This makes God, not a God of love, but of death. The problem with this idea is that God calls death “the last enemy” (1 Corinthians 15:26). How could death be the last enemy if it was “very good”?

Carl Wieland with Creation Ministries International makes the following statement in his article Waves of Sadness, 30 December 2004:

“…why is there any death and suffering at all?” And it has to be faced squarely by Christians, since we claim to have the answers to the true meaning of life, the universe and everything.

But how can one even begin to give a Christian answer, one with biblical integrity, without taking Genesis history seriously? That history tells of the creation of a once-good world, in which death and suffering are not “natural” at all, but are intruders. They occur because of humanity’s rebellion against its maker (Genesis 3). But if fossils formed over millions of years, which so many Christians just blithely accept as “fact”, then that wipes out the Fall as an answer to evil, especially “natural evil”. Because the fossils show the existence of things like death, bloodshed and suffering. So if these were there millions of years ago, they must have been there before man, and hence before sin.” (emphasis mine)

2. Believing in an old earth requires death, pain, suffering and disease (including cancer) to have existed for millions of years before sin. That means that death, pain, suffering and disease are not the penalty for sin. Therefore, this belief fails to show why Jesus would need to be sacrificed. It is my understanding that Jesus was sacrificed to set me free from the power of sin in my life and that in a similar manner to God’s sacrifice of the animals to cover Adam and Eve for their sin, Jesus’ sacrifice was for the remission of my sins (Matthew 26:28, Acts 10:43). The Bible clearly teaches that pain, suffering, death and disease are the result of sin. However, in the old earth scenario sin has no power because death, pain, suffering and disease all existed prior to sin. Are death, pain, suffering and disease the result of sin, or not?

3. Believing in an old earth requires one to change the obvious Noachian global flood to a local flood. In the old earth scenario the sedimentary layers represent time. The deeper you go, the older the earth. If the earth is old (millions and billions of years) and the Noachian flood occurred about 4300 years ago as is evident from the Biblical record, this flood would have ripped up and redeposited the sedimentary layers during the year long event. This global flood would have destroyed the time record the old earthers use as their justification for an ancient earth. On the other hand, if the Noachian flood was only local, then the global flood, so clearly taught in Genesis Chapters 6 to 9 is just a myth or a fairy tale. This makes the Bible simply mythology.

Another reason we must believe the flood of Noah’s day was global rather than local involves the integrity of God. In Genesis 9:11 God states “And I will establish my covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.” We constantly see local floods occurring today. If God was talking about a local flood then He would have lied to us. Isaiah 54:9 confirms the global flood of Noah’s day. “For this is like the days of Noah to me; when I swore that the waters of Noah should not flood the earth again,..”

4. Believing in an old earth does not explain why God would sacrifice an animal for the remission of sins if animals have been dying for millions of years.

5. Believing in an old earth denies the plain reading of Scripture concerning a young age for the earth. The Bible consistently supports a young age for the earth. Please see Genesis Chapters 1 and 5 and 11, Exodus 20:8-11,Exodus 31:14-17, Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6.

6. Believing in an old earth fails to show how there will be a restoration of everything (Acts 3:21 and Isaiah 11:6-9 and 65:25) to no death if there has been pain, suffering, death and disease for hundreds of millions of years. You cannot restore something that did not exist.

7. Believing in an old earth has the earth at creation as a fiery, molten blob with no liquid water. However, the Bible clearly states that “the earth was formed out of water and with water” (Gen 1:2 and 2 Peter 3:5). These statements are simply irreconcilable.

8. Believing in an old earth and believing Scripture requires the creation account sequence of events to coincide with the evolutionary history of the earth. The evolutionary sequence and the Biblical sequence of events are incompatible. I will only list a few of these deviations in this sequence.

There is a more comprehensive list at the following web site address:http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2006/0404order.asp

a. Evolutionists and many old earth creationists claim that the stars were formed by the big bang and only much later did the planets develop. The Bible states that the earth was created on day one and the stars were created on day four.

b. Evolutionists teach that fish came before fruit trees. The Bible states that fruit trees were created on day three and fish were created on day five.

c. Evolutionists teach that the earth’s sun came before plants. The Bible states that the plants were created on day three and the earth’s sun was created on day four.

9. Believing in an old earth denies the historicity of the first eleven chapters of Genesis and the fact that the New Testament writers and Jesus Himself understood these chapters to be historical narrative. There are 52 verses in the New Testament that either refer to or directly quote the first eleven chapters of Genesis. In each verse the writer accepts the plain reading of the Genesis account as historical narrative."​

Article Source:
http://www.vachristian.org/Creationism/Biblical-and-Scientific-Defense-of-a-Young-Earth.html
(Please take note that I may not believe everything the author believes or says on other Bible related topics; I am merely agreeing with what he has quoted here).
 
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At the tender age of ten I responded to an altar call in a 'born again' fundamentalist church. I knew at that moment I was spotless in God's sight, cleansed of any imperfections(sin) in my life. For once I accepted Christ as my saviour I became conscious of my sin for the first time in my life, for the law God desired me to keep had been written on my mind and placed on my heart by the spirit, and through that law we become conscious of our sin(rom3:20) For sin is transgression of the law(1John 3:4)
As you do now, I believed in a law of righteousness for the Christian in regard of the Ten Commandments(the moral law as it is often stated) I set out on the Christian path determined to life the life God wanted for me according to his good and Holy laws. However, the harder I tried to live as God wanted me to the more I failed. I would ask God to forgive me of my sins, and I believed he did, and once again I was in that cleansed state from all my sin. However, the sin kept coming back, and it grew stronger. Eventually I was less convinced God would forgive me of my sin, for it was getting stronger in me, and I was getting weaker spiritually. All manner of concupiscence was aroused in me. I felt rotten, dirty and ashamed. I was becoming consumed by sin. Before I became a Christian I had felt alive, but when the commandment came sin(consciousness) sprang to life in me and I died(spiritually) The commandment which was ordained to life(if I obeyed it) I found to be unto death(for I could not keep it). Sin, had through the law brought death and condemnation to me. However, I knew there was nothing wrong with God's good and holy laws, the problem was my sin.
In the following Paul is speaking of when the law came to him as a Pharisee. He states:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin(consciousness) revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom 7:7-13

So I had found the same result Paul did when I tried to obey a law of righteousness. Yet he was speaking of his life as a Pharisee, I was going to a born again fundamentalist church at the time. Please do not respond by saying we must rely on the holy Spirit. Paul wrote rom 7:7-13 as an example of why he had to die to the law-of righteousness(in the previous three verses he insisted the Christian must do this) The example he gave was .'Thou shalt not covet' which is one of the Ten Commandments. He as a Pharisee, and I as a Christian had both tried to observe a righteousness before God of obedience to the Ten Commandments. We both received the same result.
And I have to wonder, how anyone can follow a law of righteousness concerning these commands and not have the same result Paul and I had.

The victory over sin is not living under a law of righteousness-according to Paul, but under grace Rom 6:14

Before I address each of your verses (When I have time), you have to consider WHO was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15? Was Jesus speaking to the believer or the unbeliever? Well, we know Jesus could not have spoken to the unbeliever because it would do no good for an unbeliever to forgive if they have not repented of their sins and accepted Christ as their Savior. This means Jesus was speaking to the believer; And Jesus said if you do not forgive, then you will not be forgiven by the Father. In other words, Jesus believes that it is possible for a believer to not be forgiven because that was his audience (of whom he was speaking to). For Jesus was not interested in catching the ears of unbelievers because the mysteries of the Kingdom are not given to them.


....
 
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stuart lawrence

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Jesus said. ''I have come to call sinners, not the righteous

If you want to understand the truth of sin, righteousness and judgement, you have to read beyond the Gospels. For Jesus told the disciples there was much more he wanted to tell them in this regard, but they could not as yet bear such knowledge. But when the Holy Spirit came upon them, then they would understand. Paul and the writers of the Epistles had the Holy Spirit upon them, and they wrote letters to those who also had the Holy Spirit come upon them. Therefore it is these books we must read to understand this subject fully. That is based on the words of Christ
 
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Jesus said. ''I have come to call sinners, not the righteous

If you want to understand the truth of sin, righteousness and judgement, you have to read beyond the Gospels. For Jesus told the disciples there was much more he wanted to tell them in this regard, but they could not as yet bear such knowledge. But when the Holy Spirit came upon them, then they would understand. Paul and the writers of the Epistles had the Holy Spirit upon them, and they wrote letters to those who also had the Holy Spirit come upon them. Therefore it is these books we must read to understand this subject fully. That is based on the words of Christ
If what you say is true, then answer my question.
 
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stuart lawrence

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If what you say is true, then answer my question.

What I wrote is true according to the words of Christ himself.

Jesus spoke to multitudes. To say he only spoke to believers cannot be true. If everyone he spoke to accepted him, then far more than the Gospel writers said accepted him as their saviour would have done. Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, they heard his teaching, but rejected it.
If your intent(I may have misunderstood you) is concerning the possibility of losing ones salvation, I never mentioned osas that I am aware.

I hope you will find the time to respond to my post and the points raised, as it goes to the heart of what is most important, and the true message of salvation. I look forward to your comments as to what I wrote of Rom 7 and the Christian not being under a law of righteousness before God that includes the Ten Commandments
 
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What I wrote is true according to the words of Christ himself.

Jesus spoke to multitudes. To say he only spoke to believers cannot be true. If everyone he spoke to accepted him, then far more than the Gospel writers said accepted him as their saviour would have done. Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, they heard his teaching, but rejected it.
If your intent(I may have misunderstood you) is concerning the possibility of losing ones salvation, I never mentioned osas that I am aware.

I hope you will find the time to respond to my post and the points raised, as it goes to the heart of what is most important, and the true message of salvation. I look forward to your comments as to what I wrote of Rom 7 and the Christian not being under a law of righteousness before God that includes the Ten Commandments

My time is limited so I have not replied to all the verses you posted yet.

As for Romans 7: Well, some say Paul struggled with sin as a Christian according to Romans 7, but this is not the case. Paul was speaking from his perspective as a Jew who obeyed the Law before he became a Christian in the bulk of Romans 7. For in Romans 7:14, Paul says he is sold under sin. Yet in Romans 8:2, Paul says he is set free from sin. Also, Paul gives us the solution to his struggle with sin at the end of Romans 7, too. That solution is Jesus Christ. I mean, just read Romans 7:1. Paul is addressing those Christians who know the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). So obviously Paul is recounting his experience as a Jew who struggled in obeying the Law so as to help them. Romans 6:1 says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question is: "God forbid."

Anyways, as for your interpretation on Matthew 6:15: I am sorry. It just doesn't make any sense. The Pharisees did not believe Jesus. And guess what that makes them. Unbelievers. For the Scriptures say that they were cut off because of unbelief (Because they did not accept their Messiah). So again. I raise the point. Can an unbeliever be forgiven if they just forgive other people and do not repent of their sins and do not accept Christ? No, of course not. So logic dictates that Jesus was only speaking to believers in regards to Matthew 6:15. Here is another one. Who was John writing to in 1 John 3:15? He cannot be writing to unbelievers. In his epistle he addresses the brethren many times. Yet, in 1 John 3:15, John says if any man hates his brother he is a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. In other words, if a believer hates another brother, they are not saved. Pure and simple.

Paul even essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing. Can a believer be proud and know nothing and be saved? Did not Jesus say that the mysteries of the Kingdom is not given to those who were not his disciples?


....
 
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stuart lawrence

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My time is limited so I have not replied to all the verses you posted yet.

As for Romans 7: Well, some say Paul struggled with sin as a Christian according to Romans 7, but this is not the case. Paul was speaking from his perspective as a Jew who obeyed the Law before he became a Christian in the bulk of Romans 7. For in Romans 7:14, Paul says he is sold under sin. Yet in Romans 8:2, Paul says he is set free from sin. Also, Paul gives us the solution to his struggle with sin at the end of Romans 7, too. That solution is Jesus Christ. I mean, just read Romans 7:1. Paul is addressing those Christians who know the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). So obviously Paul is recounting his experience as a Jew who struggled in obeying the Law so as to help them. Romans 6:1 says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question is: "God forbid."

Anyways, as for your interpretation on Matthew 6:15: I am sorry. It just doesn't make any sense. The Pharisees did not believe Jesus. And guess what that makes them. Unbelievers. For the Scriptures say that they were cut off because of unbelief (Because they did not accept their Messiah). So again. I raise the point. Can an unbeliever be forgiven if they just forgive other people and do not repent of their sins and do not accept Christ? No, of course not. So logic dictates that Jesus was only speaking to believers in regards to Matthew 6:15. Here is another one. Who was John writing to in 1 John 3:15? He cannot be writing to unbelievers. In his epistle he addresses the brethren many times. Yet, in 1 John 3:15, John says if any man hates his brother he is a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. In other words, if a believer hates another brother, they are not saved. Pure and simple.

Paul even essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing. Can a believer be proud and know nothing and be saved? Did not Jesus say that the mysteries of the Kingdom is not given to those who were not his disciples?


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Well firstly Jesus definitely preached to people who did not accept him as john ch 6 proves. After teaching them most turned away.
However let us remain on the specific point on which the discussion started. I agree with you that Paul in rom 7 is looking back to his time as a Pharisee. However, in verses7-11 he gives a personal example as to why he had to di to a law of righteousness. The example he gave was. Thou shalt not covet. One of the ten commandments.
Incidentally if Jesus only died to give you a righteousness concerning the mosaic law apart from the ten commandments, how has Jesus death at calvary benefitted me? As a gentile I was never under the mosaic law
No one needs a saviour from sin concerning the legalistic law for Paul said he faultlessly obeyed that(phil3:6)
May I ask. What does the term born again mean to you?
 
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Well firstly Jesus definitely preached to people who did not accept him as john ch 6 proves. After teaching them most turned away.
However let us remain on the specific point on which the discussion started. I agree with you that Paul in rom 7 is looking back to his time as a Pharisee. However, in verses7-11 he gives a personal example as to why he had to di to a law of righteousness. The example he gave was. Thou shalt not covet. One of the ten commandments.
Incidentally if Jesus only died to give you a righteousness concerning the mosaic law apart from the ten commandments, how has Jesus death at calvary benefitted me? As a gentile I was never under the mosaic law
No one needs a saviour from sin concerning the legalistic law for Paul said he faultlessly obeyed that(phil3:6)
May I ask. What does the term born again mean to you?
No. Who decided to follow Jesus when the 70 left?

In other words, unbelievers or those who stopped following Jesus were not Jesus's sole recipients in regards to his audience.

Jesus's ultimate audience were for those who would obey Him (i.e. believers). Jesus's words are useless to those who do not hear or obey what He says. Jesus's words or teachings are intended for believers and NOT unbelievers. For the Scriptures say, "....without faith, it is impossible to please Him."

....
 
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stuart lawrence

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No. Who decided to follow Jesus when the 70 left? In other words, unbelievers or those who stopped following Jesus were not Jesus's sole recipients in regards to his audience.
Jesus did not just speak to the twelve in john 6 therefore he spoke to those who refused to accept him
However, it seems to me you are reluctant to address the point this discussion commenced at, or the points I have made concerning it. That is your view the christian is under a law of righteousness concerning the ten commandments. I repeat, if your view is correct, how did Jesus death at Calvary benefit me a gentile who was never under the mosaic law" if you do not wish to discuss the subject I will withdraw. However, you are wrong In your view.
 
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