What is wrong with the church?

[catch21wide]

I have heard this question asked numerous times in my 3 years as a preacher. For me, the best answer would be, for us as Christians, to look in the mirror. We are the problem. Dr. Mark Foley, who is president of the University of Mobile said, "We have to dig our foxhole and stop retreating." He was correct. The church (universal) is a retreating church. In my opinion, this is how the church has developed through history:

1) The catholic (universal) church started as the Philadelphian church. We loved each other, prayed for each other, and visitation was a key program in every church. Somewhere along the way we stopped being the Philadelphian church.

2) We went from being the Philadelphian church to being the Ephesian church. The church that left it's first love, which is Jesus Christ. We started worrying what the world thought. We began hearing sermons that was for itching ears. This leads me to number 3.

3) Now we are somewhere between being the Ephesian church and the Laodician church. Some churches are already becoming or have become the Laodician church (the lukewarm church). When we become lukewarm we get comfortable to our surroundings. In today's world, we would rather be lukewarm instead of being on fire for Jesus.

Like I said, this is only my opinion. However, if we continue on our course that we as the church is on, we will end up like the church at Sardis (the dead church). Some churches have already reached this point, but don't want to accept it. We need to dig our foxhole. We need to say it is time to stop retreating. This country is in need of a new Great Awakening.

Let me hear your thoughts.

 

[Hammster]

What's wrong with the church? The gospel isn't being preached. Instead, we get topical sermons like "7 Ways To Raise Drug Free Kids Who Stay Christian In College While Our Marriage Flourishes and We Become Better Employees". Tacking on an "invitation" at the end is NOT preaching the Gospel.

 

[catch21wide]

Amen. There are too many preachers preaching feel good messages. Some so called preachers are merely motivational speakers. If you don't preach sin, hell, and death and how Christ can wash them away, you aren't preaching the Gospel. I tell every church I preach at, including the church I pastor, if I don't step on toes, I'm not doing my job. The members of the church and pastors need to wake up and realize this isn't Mayberry anymore. We need to wake up and get on fire for Christ.

 

[GrampaJeff]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

 

[BrandonLParks]

I think what's wrong with the Church is that you have too many preachers preaching sin, hell, judgment. Need I mention Hagee, the Westboro Baptist Church, and Focus on the Family; not to mention many others? Jesus' focus was never on sin or hell but on love and grace. What made the original Church flourish was that it brought love, acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion to all people (think about the good Samaritan or the end of Matthew 25).

And for those condemning messages on how to live this life well, just look at Jesus' teachings. Aside from the book of John, Jesus taught based on what was relevant for his culture, not on high minded, complex doctrine. The parables were filled with illustrations of this worldly life.
http://whatjesusdiddo.blogspot.com

 

[Hammster]

I think what's wrong with the Church is that you have too many preachers preaching sin, hell, judgment. Need I mention Hagee, the Westboro Baptist Church, and Focus on the Family; not to mention many others? Jesus' focus was never on sin or hell but on love and grace. What made the original Church flourish was that it brought love, acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion to all people (think about the good Samaritan or the end of Matthew 25).

And for those condemning messages on how to live this life well, just look at Jesus' teachings. Aside from the book of John, Jesus taught based on what was relevant for his culture, not on high minded, complex doctrine. The parables were filled with illustrations of this worldly life.
http://whatjesusdiddo.blogspot.com

There's a difference between preaching against other peoples sins, and preaching avaunt your own.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Unbelief is the problem with the church. Not many people really believe in Christ. Instead the churches serve as either religion dispenseries or as community centers for the conceited.

 

[dies-l]

To the OP's point: Is it possible to have a passionate, communitarian, Acts 2 style church without grave persecution? I would like to think that it is, but when I look at the modern American church compared with the 1st Century Church at Jerusalem, or the underground church in place like China or Iran, or even the church that is thriving among the poverty of Latin America, I can't help but wonder. It seems that with our great comfort, wealth, and liberty in America, we do not rely on God and on one another for strength and encouragement. Our faith, then becomes one of many "luxuries" to give us entertainment and momentary happiness, not a foundation on which we build our peace and joy.

@ Hammster: I don't necessarily see a conflict between topical sermons and "preaching the Gospel". The Gospel is not, as some would present it, "believe in Jesus so you can go to heaven when you die." Rather, the Gospel is "Jesus died and rose again, so that all who have faith in Him, could be reconciled to God and have abundant life". Abundance in life certainly includes having drug free kids who love Jesus, having strong marriages, and being solid witnesses in the workplace. Very often these topical sermons are directed at helping people to see that the only real answer to every struggle in life is the Gospel.

 

[EdMa]

In response to the OP, I think you're talking about western churches right?

As far as I know, western churches have many issues. One of them is what dies-l have said, we are too comfortable with all the wealth and luxury, another problem is that we attack each other...

Anther thing is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it is only in western churches we have denominationalism, where in other parts of the world, Christian is just Christian, they don't have Baptist or Pentecostal etc, I'm not saying Baptist and Pentecostal aren't Christian but rather there isn't a distinction there. The people who persecute our brothers and sisters in those country doesn't exactly care if they are baptist or pentecostal. In western churches, while we can comfortly say there is no persecution of Christian, the reality is that we do such a fine job a seperating and attacking each other there is no need for persecuting, we are doing Satan's job without realizing it.

I believe Roman 12:4 -5 say it best of what Christianity should be like, and we as a whole in Western churches, doesn't seem to have that.

Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, so it is with Christ’s body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other.

The body of Christ in western society is hardly anything like that at all.

 

[Hammster]

To the OP's point: Is it possible to have a passionate, communitarian, Acts 2 style church without grave persecution? I would like to think that it is, but when I look at the modern American church compared with the 1st Century Church at Jerusalem, or the underground church in place like China or Iran, or even the church that is thriving among the poverty of Latin America, I can't help but wonder. It seems that with our great comfort, wealth, and liberty in America, we do not rely on God and on one another for strength and encouragement. Our faith, then becomes one of many "luxuries" to give us entertainment and momentary happiness, not a foundation on which we build our peace and joy.

@ Hammster: I don't necessarily see a conflict between topical sermons and "preaching the Gospel". The Gospel is not, as some would present it, "believe in Jesus so you can go to heaven when you die." Rather, the Gospel is "Jesus died and rose again, so that all who have faith in Him, could be reconciled to God and have abundant life". Abundance in life certainly includes having drug free kids who love Jesus, having strong marriages, and being solid witnesses in the workplace. Very often these topical sermons are directed at helping people to see that the only real answer to every struggle in life is the Gospel.

It's the Gospel that transforms. Preach the Gospel (which us the whole of Scripture), and all problems are dealt with. That way, those to whom the moralistic therapeutic message isn't pointed at can benefit.

 

[faceofbear]

Living in Michigan, it's been my observation that many people who go to Church out here, and claim to be Christian, when you actually ask about their beliefs, they're basically deists. They believe in God, but that's it.

In other words, the problem with the church, is that it's not the church. It's a body of deists who go to church "just in case," and because it's what they've always done.

 

[catch21wide]

To the one who mentioned Westboro: I don't think of Westboro as a church. It is more of a cult that teaches hate. The Lord does tell us to love one another, however, how can you preach the Gospel without telling someone that in order to be saved you have to repent of your sins. There are too many preaches saying that you can live happy lives to attain righteousness.

Preachers who go on record to say that they refuse to preach on sin because they don't want to offend anybody, what are they actually preaching about.

If your church has the Church Covenant posted anywhere in the church (which this is becoming more scarce as well) pay attention to the 2nd and 4th paragraphs. grudges are becoming rampant in churches. churches don't want to take part in a visitation program. When you exit a church, you not only exit into a community, but you enter a mission field. i told my church this past Sunday that we need to dig our foxholes and i asked What are we doing to advance the church.

 

[miamited]

Hi Brandon,

Just a quick note and it is in no way meant to deny what you have written, but rather to flesh out for you all that Jesus did while he was with us.

You wrote: Jesus' focus was never on sin or hell but on love and grace. What made the original Church flourish was that it brought love, acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion to all people (think about the good Samaritan or the end of Matthew 25).

Here's a site you might put among your favorites for good study tools of the Scriptures: Bible Study Tools Online – Verses, Commentaries, Concordances, Verses, Parallel Versions

If you click on advanced search you can actually do concordance work book by book or by section. For example, I did a quick search for the times the word 'hell' was used in just the gospels and I found 11 times the word was used. As I looked through each one more closely by going to that usage and reading more than just the verse in which the word was used so that I got a more complete understanding of who was talking and what was being talked about and who was listening and the various other 'facts' to be gathered from the material, I found that invariably it was Jesus speaking to his disciples or a group and the intent of the discussion seemed to be of a warning nature.

I agree wholeheartedly that the 'congregation' of the first fellowships of the 'church' may have been open and accepting, but we also have Scriptural reference that they weren't always. As a matter of fact, when Paul first enters the picture we find that the new 'christians' were quite fearful of him and weren't particularly comfortable with his presence among them until someone gave a testimony of what had happened to him. We know through extra biblical historical accounts that there seemed to be some fear in just being a follower of Christ for some time and it would certainly seem to me that this 'openness and acceptance' that you metion, while certainly after someone had been among them for a bit may have been the case, but I can't honestly agree that it would have been so for people who were brought in the first time and certainly we don't have any indication that neighbors and friends just wandered into worship services as we see today. So, I'm not convinced that your idyllic picture of the early church is necessarily supported by the Scriptures. Paul accounts for us that there were apparently several times that people were not so 'accepting' of outsiders or even others within the body of believers.

A case could even be made that his writing to the Corinthian church regarding the man who was so obviously accepted by the believers, but had his father's wife, shows that there are some lifestyles that people practice that we shouldn't be so 'accepting' of. His instructions were to put the man out of fellowship.

Anyway, just so there is a clear and complete picture of Jesus' ministry to us, he did certainly teach of love, but he did also warn repeatedly of the consequences of our sin and so painting a picture that shows that Jesus was never or very rarely convicting of sin and teaching about hell and the consequences of our sin is not, I believe, a complete picture of Jesus' teaching to his followers. Yes, as an individual who participates with a fellowship I should be honest, loving, reasonably accepting of new believers and visitors to my fellowship, but as the pastor or leader of any fellowship I think teaching all that Jesus taught the first disciples should be the goal.

One other point I'd like to make. I often hear those in fellowship talk about such things as, "Well, we just need to be more loving and accepting." I absolutely agree that those are attributes that we should strive to adopt in everything that we do, not just our time of fellowship, but I am impressed when I hear these things said that the goal of being more 'loving and accepting' will somehow stop people from turning away from the gospel and the way of salvation. Let us all understand that, as a believer, I don't think there has ever walked upon the earth anyone more loving and accepting than our dear Lord and Savior, Jesus. Yet, there is a teaching that is recorded when he spoke of the cost of following him, that many turned back and I can't imagine anyone not realizing that when Jesus was taken to be crucified that there were certainly thousands and possibly millions of people who had heard him teach the gospel of salvation across all of Israel for over 3 years, who had not made the choice to follow him. Even to this day, most of Israel have not allowed themselves to trust in the testimony and sacrifice of Jesus for their sin. So, just so we understand that a certain measure of 'love, openness, and accepting' towards others is surely a teaching of the Scriptures, let's not be unwise in thinking that it is this 'wrong' attitude that believers have that keeps people away from accepting the truth.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[dies-l]

It's the Gospel that transforms. Preach the Gospel (which us the whole of Scripture), and all problems are dealt with. That way, those to whom the moralistic therapeutic message isn't pointed at can benefit.

That's a fair point. But, the way that I typically see the topical sermons used is one of three ways:

Directed toward the lost, as a means of addressing an identified need in their lives. Many people who do not yet believe that they need Jesus will realize that their life is missing something as evidenced by a specific problem or deficiency in their lives. I have seen pastors use topical sermons to help the nonbeliever see the link between their apparent problem (e.g., dissatisfaction, lack of community, family upheaval) and their need for a Savior. And, the teaching is presented that the Gospel is not just some pie in the sky thing about going to heaven when we die, but it is a very real key to living in abundance here and now. The key to this type of sermon is ultimately not, "how to fix your family", but rather "how your family upheaval reveals your need for a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior."

Directed toward the flock, as a means of teaching on specific identified problems within the congregation. Believers can grow stagnant and forget just how powerful the blood of Jesus and biblical principles can be in helping us to address the most serious deficiencies in our lives. If a pastor notices that a lot of people in the congregation are struggling through family upheaval, a well directed sermon can help many people (even those the pastor doesn't know about specifically or who haven't yet come to him for counseling) to apply biblical principles to their specific issue.

As a marketing tool, to draw people into the church by appearing to be relevant to "today's problems and issues".

The last of these is the only one that I see as inconsistent with the idea of the church preaching the gospel. When a sermon topic is used as a marketing tool, one of two things is bound to happen: either the sermon will be watered down to the point of uselessness or those who were drawn in by the seeming "relevance" of the topic will feel that they have been duped by a bait and switch of sorts.

 

[If Not For Grace]

We are the problem

Asked & Answered. Enough said!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

What is wrong with the church?

In the early 1970’s, the slogan, “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven,” began to appear on bumper stickers across the United States. Today, it is very much more than just a slogan on bumper stickers—it is the pervasive attitude of millions of people who faithfully go to church every Sunday and often to midweek services, but who are not faithful in being Christians.

Matt. 1:21. “She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Matt 5:43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’
44. “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45. so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46. “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47. “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48. “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Matt. 22:34. But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together.
35. One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him,
36. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37. And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’
38. “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39. “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’
40. “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Mark 12:28. One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”
29. Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
30. AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’
31. “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
32. The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
33. AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34. When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.

Luke 10:25. And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26. And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
27. And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
28. And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”
29. But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Matt. 26:27. And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;
28. for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.”

Jesus came into this world to “save His people from their sins.” He preached that His blood would be poured out for “forgiveness “of their sins, that the forgiveness of their sins would be His response to their “repentance,” and that their repentance would be the response of their “faith.”

Luke 24:45. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46. and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47. and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

Acts 26:14. “And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew dialect, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
15. “And I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
16. ‘But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;
17. rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
18. to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

Col. 1:9. For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
10. so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11. strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously
12. giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
13. For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the Updated NASB, 1995)

 

[dies-l]

What is wrong with the church?

In the early 1970’s, the slogan, “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven,” began to appear on bumper stickers across the United States. Today, it is very much more than just a slogan on bumper stickers—it is the pervasive attitude of millions of people who faithfully go to church every Sunday and often to midweek services, but who are not faithful in being Christians.

What's particularly dangerous about this type of marketing is that it essentially turns Christianity into a "get out of hell free" card, not the life changing good news of the Bible. Modern evangelical Christianity seems to be more about where we go when we die then it is about how we live while we're alive. And, so many Christians don't even see any relationship between their faith and their actions.

 

[Goinheix]

What is wrong with wich church?
there is the church we attend every week
there is a church as a denomination, let say Southern Baptist
there is also the bigger church, like the baptist all toghether
there is even a bigger meaning as the evangelic churches, and the protestant church including mormons, witnesses and adventist
and there is the bigest church if we include anglicans, romans, and eatern orthodox.

in a totaly different meaning of the word church it is the body of all christians of the world.

wich church is wrong?

 

[phoenixdem]

I think what's wrong with the Church is that you have too many preachers preaching sin, hell, judgment. Need I mention Hagee, the Westboro Baptist Church, and Focus on the Family; not to mention many others? Jesus' focus was never on sin or hell but on love and grace. What made the original Church flourish was that it brought love, acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion to all people (think about the good Samaritan or the end of Matthew 25).

And for those condemning messages on how to live this life well, just look at Jesus' teachings. Aside from the book of John, Jesus taught based on what was relevant for his culture, not on high minded, complex doctrine. The parables were filled with illustrations of this worldly life.
What Jesus did Do

"Jesus' focus was never on sin or hell but on love and grace."

Christ talked a lot on sin, Hell, and Redemption. Yes, He did talk about love and grace, but love and grace is only part of the message. The other Books of the New Testament certainly zeroed in on sin and Hell as well.