What is Word of Faith?

[HolySpiritWOF]

Amen holy spirit WOF its about edification praise worship not convict and challange. The entire bible is about trust in god.our salvation is john 3:16 who so ever beliveth on him.Yes we do control our enviorment its called free will. As far as the other statements my self I trust the word god tells me i can recieve i belive Ephesians ch3 vs20. They just cant change it or twist it. Yes if they have other issiues let them debate in thelogy fourms

amen.... i agree..... GOD BLESS you.....

 

[Tallen]

What stops the Calvinists, who have great disdain for WoF doctrines, from just, as a group, saying "We are Word of Faith now!!" Putting "Word of Faith" on the marquee of their churches and going on to teach Calvinism. They would water down WoF some, don't'cha think?

If this is true, then why do so many wofist identify with the Calvinist Andrew Murray and what to represent him as a spokesman for wof doctrines?

It seems to me that wof has a love-hate relationship with Calvinism.

 

[pdudgeon]

If this is true, then why do so many wofist identify with the Calvinist Andrew Murray and what to represent him as a spokesman for wof doctrines?

It seems to me that wof has a love-hate relationship with Calvinism.

Phillipians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

the message is always greater than the man.
So whether it be a WOF or a Calvinist, a Catholic or a Baptist, if Jesus Christ is preached as risen from the dead and comming again, we can say Amen.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

If this is true, then why do so many wofist identify with the Calvinist Andrew Murray and what to represent him as a spokesman for wof doctrines?

It seems to me that wof has a love-hate relationship with Calvinism.

Funny how I fantasize of Calvinists calling themselves WoF and you show up -- my favorite Calvinist (really you are!!)

So who mentioned Andrew Murray here on CF's WoF? Haven't seen his name here. Is CARM so deserted that you have to go out looking for Word/Faith to jab? For I certainly did not mention Murray, nor do I hold him up as a spokesman for my doctrines.

I love you in the Lord, Ted. But really...don't bring your fight here. This is a well watched house. Jesus is our Lord and Savior, brother. Let us glory in that revelation, and stand together, not apart, as brothers in the Lord.

 

[PastorMike]

Funny how I fantasize of Calvinists calling themselves WoF and you show up -- my favorite Calvinist (really you are!!)

So who mentioned Andrew Murray here on CF's WoF? Haven't seen his name here. Is CARM so deserted that you have to go out looking for Word/Faith to jab? For I certainly did not mention Murray, nor do I hold him up as a spokesman for my doctrines.

I love you in the Lord, Ted. But really...don't bring your fight here. This is a well watched house. Jesus is our Lord and Savior, brother. Let us glory in that revelation, and stand together, not apart, as brothers in the Lord.

True, I have never heard anyone claiming Andrew Murray as a spokesman for WoF...

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

True, I have never heard anyone claiming Andrew Murray as a spokesman for WoF...

Tallen is an old friend of mine from another forum site. The Word/Faith forum there is brutally anti-WoF. Tallen is arguably the most knowledgeable Reformed Calvinist there.

The fight against some of our doctrinal points there divides people, for each side thinks they are more right and thus the debate goes on.... One poster (and perhaps more) brought up quotes from Andrew Murray that teach points that seemed more WoF than "orthodoxy." That brought disdain that we were trying to call Murray a Word/Faith believer...which I don't think was the posters point.

The point that I think was being made by such posters was that the fight between WoF and some of the orthodoxy has become so divided that it is almost as if we do not have a common root in the Christian tree. The division is fueled by both sides, I admit, but honestly if you scan the internet you simply do not find WoF sites aplenty that deride non-WoF systems; but the sites critical of, no, brutal towards WoF could fell entire forests if we printed them.

My OP asks "What is Word/Faith" and certainly Andrew Murray is not Word/Faith. But some points made in his writing are common to WoF, and some have quoted those commonalities. I do not believe that I have ever quoted Murray, for I have not read him other than casual glances in bookstores. But Murray has not been quoted here, on CF, nor does he belong in this thread.

 

[PastorMike]

I understand bro, I joined the "other" forum for awhile too and found no friends there...

 

[christine mcdougall]

Believing that Jesus died on the cross for every sin, past , present and furture, and we are healed by his stripes.
when God created us he created us in his image,

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Believing that Jesus died on the cross for every sin, past , present and furture, and we are healed by his stripes.
when God created us he created us in his image,

wow, this thread goes back a ways. Why would you say that your description of WoF differs from orthodox Christianity?

 

[christine mcdougall]

People hold on to past sin and generation sins ,didn't Jesus die for all our sins. having faith in God is very important

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

People hold on to past sin and generation sins ,didn't Jesus die for all our sins. having faith in God is very important

Well, you are right. Jesus died for ALL our sins, past, present and future. And people think wrongly that with each sin they are newly deprived and damned; and as you point out, people dig up old sins when God has long forgotten them.

Hebrews 10:17-18
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
​

Jesus paid for your sins once, for all, forever.

 

[Alive_Again]

Well, you are right. Jesus died for ALL our sins, past, present and future. And people think wrongly that with each sin they are newly deprived and damned; and as you point out, people dig up old sins when God has long forgotten them.

The things God forgave you of are in the past and should be forgotten. Jesus paid for all of our sins (and everyone else's too).

Your relationship with God is a lot like one with anyone else, and He is a person just like we are. Although not in a wordly controlling way, He is a jealous God and loves completely. He wants us to lay down our idols. His character never changes, although His provision in the New Covenant allows us to be forgiven when we transgress and repent.

He is every quality of love to the extreme. To those who are sold out to Him, He'll protect you like a mother hen does her chickens. He reaches out constantly to us and to the world. He expects us to return His love and we are called to love supernaturally. We cannot do this on our own, so grace is available to those who believe and lay hold by faith. Grace is available just because He loves you. But the same grace is available to all without partiality, so we must not confuse the willingness and readiness to forgive with a check that says you're covered for no matter what you do. That is not love. Love does not give good rewards to those who walk in hatred.

Jesus' sacrifice paid for that check, but you must meet the conditions. We are not already forgiven (except for those sins that are past, already confessed and repented of). We are able to be forgiven, by virtue of what Jesus did. Just as importantly, if we do not forgive, we do not qualify to be forgiven.

Hebrews 10:17-18

17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.​

Their is no more offering necessary. Our High Priest Jesus and His blood was already provided and for those who come boldly to the throne obtain grace as needed. You must come and obtain, it is not thrown at you, and the choices we make today to follow His Lordship and walk in His love, are expected to be daily choices. Any idolatry needs to be repented of, as committed.

Jesus paid for your sins once, for all, forever.

His sacrifice paid the penalty for all sins. It must be appropriated by faith in His mercy and covenant of peace.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Well, you are right. Jesus died for ALL our sins, past, present and future. And people think wrongly that with each sin they are newly deprived and damned; and as you point out, people dig up old sins when God has long forgotten them.

Hebrews 10:17-18
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
​

Jesus paid for your sins once, for all, forever.

And further Christine, we have Jesus' Word on it:

John 10:25-30
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
​

Once we follow Jesus, He gives us life. No one can snatch them away from Him.

Some say "well it isn't just 'anyone' but it is the person's own decision." But what did Jesus promise? v28: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

You see, "My Father...is greater than all" -- gee, even you and me. He shall not lose you. And this is not sovereign God overriding your will; it is an unexpressable Love, Love that you cannot imagine, Love that you as a human could not possibly comprehend that begins a work of regeneration in you, a work of sanctification in you, justifies you completely -- a Love that sees the end of time and the beginning, that has ALREADY seen every sin you have and will commit and He has forgiven them, completely and irrevocably: No one, not even you, can snatch you from His hands once you accept Him as Savior.

Those who are not His sheep, will not believe (ever!). Not a predestination (as in Calvinism), but a God who can see the results. But His sheep hear His voice and follow Him: and they shall never perish; He shall not let them fall from His hand. Period.

 

[Alive_Again]

Once we follow Jesus, He gives us life. No one can snatch them away from Him.

Some say "well it isn't just 'anyone' but it is the person's own decision." But what did Jesus promise? v28: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

There's no height nor depth, or devil, or any other person or thing that can separate you, or snatch you from God as you say yes to Him. If we abide in the secret place of the most high, we're free from the terror and the arrow. If we move outside into the realm of the enemy, then we run the risk of the ravenous wolves Paul warned the church about. It's a choice. We can abide in the strong tower that is His presence and His name. We can also choose to be swayed by the deceiving winds of doctrine that blow. That is why we need protection from them. God has made every provision. Those who abide in Him have eternal life abiding in them and there is no darkness.

We can deceive ourselves though if we do not walk in love. If we hate or do not forgive, we cannot lie to ourselves. The choice is ours and God will stand behind your right to make it.

You see, "My Father...is greater than all" -- gee, even you and me. He shall not lose you. And this is not sovereign God overriding your will; it is an unexpressable Love...

He'll always be your refuge and you cannot be "lost" because of another power greater than yourself (unless you choose to walk in darkness). Even there, the love of God watches over you. It is a war and many perish. Many are deceived by their own lusts, walking after the flesh. It's not meant to put you in ungodly fear. It is meant for you to have a godly reverential fear.

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:12 (KJV)

He speaks to our spirit and we have faith (which comes by hearing the Word). It's a fight of faith. We have to lay hold on eternal life.

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
1 Tim 4:16 (KJV)

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:14-16 (KJV)

Therefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Cor 10:12 (KJV)

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:20-22 (KJV)

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:34 (KJV)

Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Deut 4:9 (KJV)

Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Prov 4:23 (KJV)

And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mark 4:19 (KJV)

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:15 (KJV)

The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
Luke 11:34-35 (KJV)

And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luke 21:8 (KJV)

And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
Luke 12:15 (KJV)

And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
Mark 8:15 (KJV)

Leaven causes the bread to rise and we are to be unleavened. We (the new man) is to be leavened by the leaven of the kingdom.

We must forgive and have mercy, or we will NOT have mercy, or be forgiven.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 18:9-10 (KJV)

I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.
Psalms 39:1 (KJV)

..but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:22 (KJV)

Wherefore now let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
2 Chron 19:7 (KJV)

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
Col 3:25 (KJV)

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1 Peter 1:17 (KJV)

When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deut 12:29-30 (KJV)

Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
Deut 11:16 (KJV)

Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
Ex 34:12 (KJV)

This may destroy you, but you can still be saved. It depends on your repentance and God's mercy. You can go right back into the world (God's enemy).

And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
Mark 8:17-18 (KJV)

Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice.
John 18:37 (KJV)

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:17 (KJV)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:27 (KJV)

If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Jer 18:10 (KJV)

We are warned...

But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer 7:23-24 (KJV)

God's friends...

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Gen 26:5 (KJV)

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John 15:14-15 (KJV)

We ALL have to choose, in spite of the fact that no one can snatch us out of His hand (as we obey and walk in love).

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
James 4:4 (KJV)

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6 (KJV)

It is not a legalistic fear we are to have. It is a holy fear that we walk before God purely and uprightly. The pure in heart will see God and without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

 

[christine mcdougall]

Well said, Ablessed man

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Well said, Ablessed man

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.