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- Thread starter JohnMarsten
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and especially this:
Life: Our right and responsibility to decide 9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human obedience necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use His gifts in accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their misuse (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6, 6:1,2; Galatians 5:13).
10) God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
11) Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
12) Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will of God (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42).
*Abortion, as understood in these guidelines, is defined as any action aimed at the termination of a pregnancy already established. This is distinguished from contraception, which is intended to prevent a pregnancy. The focus of the document is on abortion.
**The fundamental perspective of these guidelines is taken from a broad study of scripture as shown in the "Principles for a Christian View of Human Life" included at the end of this document.
Life: Our right and responsibility to decide 9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human obedience necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use His gifts in accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their misuse (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6, 6:1,2; Galatians 5:13).
10) God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
11) Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
12) Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will of God (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42).
*Abortion, as understood in these guidelines, is defined as any action aimed at the termination of a pregnancy already established. This is distinguished from contraception, which is intended to prevent a pregnancy. The focus of the document is on abortion.
**The fundamental perspective of these guidelines is taken from a broad study of scripture as shown in the "Principles for a Christian View of Human Life" included at the end of this document.
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Am I getting this whole thing right?
The church is presenting guidelines for abortion?
What are they saying in this piece of xxxx?
So what is their position here? every man decides for themselves of what?
is it like, S_I_N_ - every man decides for himself...
oh yes,
Now I was talking about wine... and I still believe its biblical to have a glass now and then (to say the least), but thats my opinion... I tried to discuss this thing on a biblical level on this forum, I have encountered much opposition, ridiculous grape juice theories etc.
But then we have murder in the first degree... and thats OK, cause its pro-choice? PRO_CHOICE???????????????????????????????????????????
if I had a beer publicly ( I was never a guy to hide in the dark, especially not if I dont believe a beer in good company was a bad thing), I would definitely get a talk from some wanna be church leader...
but what if I owned an abortion clinic?
This is as hypocritical as it gets, and I am happy not to call myself affiliated with the SDA at the moment...
this message should be spread everywhere, maybe the church would change its course of perdition then...
The church is presenting guidelines for abortion?
What are they saying in this piece of xxxx?
So what is their position here? every man decides for themselves of what?
is it like, S_I_N_ - every man decides for himself...
oh yes,
Now I was talking about wine... and I still believe its biblical to have a glass now and then (to say the least), but thats my opinion... I tried to discuss this thing on a biblical level on this forum, I have encountered much opposition, ridiculous grape juice theories etc.
But then we have murder in the first degree... and thats OK, cause its pro-choice? PRO_CHOICE???????????????????????????????????????????
if I had a beer publicly ( I was never a guy to hide in the dark, especially not if I dont believe a beer in good company was a bad thing), I would definitely get a talk from some wanna be church leader...
but what if I owned an abortion clinic?
This is as hypocritical as it gets, and I am happy not to call myself affiliated with the SDA at the moment...
this message should be spread everywhere, maybe the church would change its course of perdition then...
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One of the things I've taught myself is that not every "official statement" of the church, is the official statement of the church. I think what you have is the result of people being afraid of being labeled as judgmental. Given the volatile nature of the subject, I'm guessing this is the "best" way they can tell others how to act.
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I think you are a little too apologetic here... defending something that shouldnt be defended at all...
IMHO the church should have a definite position on the subject, not just providing a guideline, vehemently trying not to be judgmental...
this sort of guidelines leaves the door open for mass murder (thats the effect of it), of course its always just one murder at a time (but that shouldnt be the point here).
As a result we have SDA hospitals performing murder and allowing SDAs to own those slaughter houses. Imagine Nazi Germany would have privatized concentration camps and an SDA would have owned one? this comparison isnt actually so far fetched if you think about it...
moreover the whole wine/grape juice theory and the policy attached to it has just become ridiculous to me, yeah right (like contended rightfully said) the SDA is more concerned with pork, wine and stuff then with murder...
Another sad result is that the members of SDA have apparently been desensitized...
But you said 'judgmental', ... well, if you say so... but think about it again...
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Trust me, I'm not trying to be apologetic. I don't agree with abortion at all. I was just trying to give you an explanation, unless you weren't looking for and just wanted to vent, which is understandable. Of course I do believe you're going over the top calling the hospital a "slaughter house". Is that how you feel about every hospital that does abortions?
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Well, to be honest, I have never really cared too much about abortion. I have regarded it as sin, I would never pressure anyone into abortion and stuff, and I somehow thought that the SDA is against abortion, I dont know, it seemed so obvious and natural that I never really cared to ask... my bad I guess...
why I am I using the word slaughter house?
first of all I regard the whole abortion thing as manslaughter, murder and stuff... in fact there have been more abortions than people killed in WWII. and that is something I guess... every year hundred of thousands of people are killed, that is slaugher...
so now if I hear the word abortion clinic, then I think of a slaughter house that specializes in killing, if hospitals do the killing (among others) then I guess they have their slaughter sections
Listen, this is just my opinion, I dont know what the Lords opinion is on the subject, I mean I can only guess and assume but I dont know... personally I am totally against it, and have to wonder how the SDA could have fallen under the sway of some.... well I dont know how to put it...
maybe we all have been desensitized through the media, movies and stuff, but IMHO this is way beyond the limit...
One thing is for certain, I will never ever again start a discussion about wine... never ever... and if anyone ever should, then I know which topic to bring up
- actually its not funny at all...
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Still, calling a hospital a "slaughter house" in my opinion is going overboard, especially when you're talking about SDA hospitals as if they're the only hospitals that do this, and as if abortion is the ONLY thing they do.
One thing is for certain, I will never ever again start a discussion about wine... never ever... and if anyone ever should, then I know which topic to bring up
I don't know what one has to do with the other here...
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Marsten, what part of 'the church is in an apostate state right now' don't you understand. All things of the OT was given to us as an example of how things were to play out here at the end of time... guess what, the Istraelites killed there own children too and offered them to idols during their apostacy. Nothing is new under the sun, son.
No one is condoning this behaviour but we are told what to do about it... pray, pray and then pray some more for the leadership that they repent of their corporate sins and come back to God's standard.
No one is condoning this behaviour but we are told what to do about it... pray, pray and then pray some more for the leadership that they repent of their corporate sins and come back to God's standard.
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>The church is presenting guidelines for abortion?
No; it defined what abortion was--not that it gave guidelines to promote abortion.
No; it defined what abortion was--not that it gave guidelines to promote abortion.
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The SDA Church hierarchy appears more intent on keeping up its public image as the remnant rather than pursuing and eradicating criminal and immoral activity from within their ranks.
Since the church's hierarchy is UNWILLING to take a stand on abortion, I am wondering what they will do IF the governments of the world decide to make it illegal for any church TO REFUSE TO MARRY TWO HOMOSEXUALS. If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything. What is so distressing is that many members are afraid to speak out.
Still, calling a hospital a "slaughter house" in my opinion is going overboard, especially when you're talking about SDA hospitals as if they're the only hospitals that do this, and as if abortion is the ONLY thing they do.:o
Quote from Stryder 06 You can use that argument for drug dealers too. They may donate money to worthy causes BUT destroying the lives of other human beings STRYDER 06 SHAME ON YOU with your flawed reasoning.Am I reading the above statement correctly. Where is the outrage against a church that claims to be the REMNANT. This is the kind of reasoning that some members have which is so pathetic. Abortion may not be the only thing they do..BUT IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DO THAT GRIEVES THE SPIRIT OF GOD AND BREAKS HIS COMMANDS. The church has become like the Pharisees of old. Whitened sepulchres. The time is ripe for people to run out of the temple these criminals whose interest is purely financial. The high priest were concerned with money. It is a very sad day in the SDA church. May God open the eyes of the spirtually blind. Once the church have this myopic view of life nothing will change and as it stands they are blaspheming God's name..
Abortion Is a Blood Sacrifice Unto Satan! | Unreasonable Faith
Interestingly, John the Baptist was willing to tell Herod that he was an adulterer and lost his head for it. The church today has no spiritual backbone. Money has become the false god of the SDA and I make no apologies for it.
Revelation 21:8 God outlines those who will be placed in hell and COWARDS, LIARS and MURDERERS are mentioned.
It is a very sad day that a church that should be in the forefront of preaching the gospel to the world has found his hands tainted in the destruction of young unborn children. Whenever I discuss this topic here in Barbados members tend to shrug their shoulder. A time is coming when I can say that many will do whatever is necessary to maintain their lives..possibly receiving the mark of the Beast. The bible states that without FAITH WE CANNOT PLEASE GOD. We must remember that Christianity is not for cowards. Christ showed that we must count the cost and we are to be soldiers. Whatever God hates we must hate. No sense condemning the physical things like wine, jewellry, physical things that will perish but closing our eyes to the destruction of childen who do not have a chance to grow up. Christ commands us to let our light shine. The church is in deep spiritual peril, a time to seriously pray and fast is what is needed and this we must do.
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The SDA Church hierarchy appears more intent on keeping up its public image as the remnant rather than pursuing and eradicating criminal and immoral activity from within their ranks.
Since the church's hierarchy is UNWILLING to take a stand on abortion, I am wondering what they will do IF the governments of the world decide to make it illegal for any church TO REFUSE TO MARRY TWO HOMOSEXUALS. If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything. What is so distressing is that many members are afraid to speak out.
Still, calling a hospital a "slaughter house" in my opinion is going overboard, especially when you're talking about SDA hospitals as if they're the only hospitals that do this, and as if abortion is the ONLY thing they do.:o
Am I reading the above statement correctly. Where is the outrage against a church that claims to be the REMNANT. This is the kind of reasoning that some members have which is so pathetic. Abortion may not be the only thing they do..BUT IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DO THAT GRIEVES THE SPIRIT OF GOD AND BREAKS HIS COMMANDS. The church has become like the Pharisees of old. Whitened sepulchres. The time is ripe for people to run out of the temple these criminals whose interest is purely financial. The high priest were concerned with money. It is a very sad day in the SDA church. May God open the eyes of the spirtually blind. Once the church have this myopic view of life nothing will change and as it stands they are blaspheming God's name..
Abortion Is a Blood Sacrifice Unto Satan! | Unreasonable Faith
Interestingly, John the Baptist was willing to tell Herod that he was an adulterer and lost his head for it. The church today has no spiritual backbone. Money has become the false god of the SDA and I make no apologies for it.
Revelation 21:8 God outlines those who will be placed in hell and COWARDS, LIARS and MURDERERS are mentioned.
It is a very sad day that a church that should be in the forefront of preaching the gospel to the world has found his hands tainted in the destruction of young unborn children. Whenever I discuss this topic here in Barbados members tend to shrug their shoulder. A time is coming when I can say that many will do whatever is necessary to maintain their lives..possibly receiving the mark of the Beast. The bible states that without FAITH WE CANNOT PLEASE GOD. We must remember that Christianity is not for cowards. Christ showed that we must count the cost and we are to be soldiers.
Exactly!!!
Yeah, and John the baptist lost his head because he stood up,
I guess others in here would sit down and look for some apologies... well, Herod is not so bad... well, did you prove Herod did that... well, Herod is doing a lot of charity...
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