What is the ministration of death in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11?

[Travis93]

.2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

I've been trying to explain away all of Paul's anti-law statements as being about the oral laws of his day like the hand washing in Mark 7:1-8 since he tells us the law isn't voided (Romans 3:31) and is useful instruction for us (2 Timothy 3:16), but here he's saying it's engraved on stones, so it can't be anything oral. I know no true prophet would go against the law of Moses (Deuteronomy 13:1-5), so what's going on in this passage?

 

[Job8]

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious

The ministration of death is simply the fact that since every human being has violated at least one of the Ten Commandments (which were graven in stones), he or she faces both death and the second death (eternal damnation). The Ten Commandments show all people that they have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and face His wrath. Therefore all need the Savior, and all need to obey the Gospel.

 

[gadar perets]

.2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

I've been trying to explain away all of Paul's anti-law statements as being about the oral laws of his day like the hand washing in Mark 7:1-8 since he tells us the law isn't voided (Romans 3:31) and is useful instruction for us (2 Timothy 3:16), but here he's saying it's engraved on stones, so it can't be anything oral. I know no true prophet would go against the law of Moses (Deuteronomy 13:1-5), so what's going on in this passage?

Paul begins by edifying the Corinthian believers. He says the Corinthians themselves are epistles or letters. They are living epistles. The Old Testament Scriptures are like an epistle from Yahweh. That epistle was made flesh in the person of Yeshua. He is the living word or the living epistle. All believers should be living epistles. One of the most powerful ways to witness the good news or to witness the Torah is to live it or to be a living epistle to the unbelievers around us.

However, our epistle cannot be written on our hearts simply by reading the Word or reading the letter of the Ten Commandments. We cannot just have a head knowledge of the Sabbath, for example, and begin obeying it. It must be written on our hearts by the Spirit, as it says in verse 3. That Spirit is revealed to us, in vss.14-18, as the Spirit of Messiah or the Spirit of the Master Yeshua.

Ezekiel 36:26,27 tells us about this.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."​

It is the Spirit that causes us to keep the Sabbath, for example. It should not be our own flesh that causes this.

Now let's look at verses 7-9 in 2 Corinthians 3;

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."

What is the "ministration of death, written and engraved on stone" that caused the face of Moses to shine? Let's look at the original account in Exodus 34:29-33;

"And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that Yahweh had spoken with him in mount Sinai. And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a veil on his face."​

The Ten Commandments and all the other commandments that Yahweh had spoken were so glorious that they caused Moses' face to shine, so much so that he had to veil his face.

So, in other words, "the ministration of death" is not only the Ten Commandments, but all of Yahweh's commandments that comprised the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is identified as "written and engraven on stone" because the Ten Commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant.

In verse 7, the italicized word "glory" is not in the Greek text. The addition of the word "glory" leads one to believe it was the glory that was done away with. The translators undoubtedly added the word glory to prevent the reader from erroneously believing the Ten Commandments were done away with.

What Paul is really saying in verse 7 is that the Old Covenant is done away. The Greek word for "done away" means to become entirely idle, cease, be abolished, or vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 says the same thing;

"In that he says, a new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away."​

Paul is saying the Old Covenant is a ministration of death and condemnation, but something else was to replace it; the ministration of the Spirit and of righteousness. This is the New Covenant which is far more glorious than the Old Covenant because it is established on better promises, a better priesthood, a better sacrifice, and a better way of administering the covenant itself. The Old Covenant was administered through the letter. The New Covenant is administered through the Spirit. The Old Covenant law was written on stones and scrolls. The New Covenant law is written on our hearts. However, the Law of Yahweh cannot be written on a person's heart until their veil of blindness is removed through the acceptance of Yeshua the Messiah as one's Master and Savior.

 

[Hieronymus]

Paul is not anti-Law, he's anti-flesh.

 

[AbbaLove]

Man-made oral laws are not God's written Law. ​

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
In this verse "law" should be capitalized.

Many man-made secular laws are enforced to protect the welfare of mankind. However, man-made religious laws can go to the extreme and in some cases actually diminish the welfare of mankind (e.g. the mistreatment of women by some religions).

The Ten Commandments show all people that they have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and face His wrath. Therefore all need the Savior, and all need to obey the Gospel.

"Obeying the Gospel" is a lifelong study.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/euangelion/2014/05/what-does-it-mean-to-obey-the-gospel/
http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Obeying-The-Gospel​

 

[visionary]

Paul begins by edifying the Corinthian believers. He says the Corinthians themselves are epistles or letters. They are living epistles. The Old Testament Scriptures are like an epistle from Yahweh. That epistle was made flesh in the person of Yeshua. He is the living word or the living epistle. All believers should be living epistles. One of the most powerful ways to witness the good news or to witness the Torah is to live it or to be a living epistle to the unbelievers around us.

However, our epistle cannot be written on our hearts simply by reading the Word or reading the letter of the Ten Commandments. We cannot just have a head knowledge of the Sabbath, for example, and begin obeying it. It must be written on our hearts by the Spirit, as it says in verse 3. That Spirit is revealed to us, in vss.14-18, as the Spirit of Messiah or the Spirit of the Master Yeshua.

Ezekiel 36:26,27 tells us about this.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."​

It is the Spirit that causes us to keep the Sabbath, for example. It should not be our own flesh that causes this.

Now let's look at verses 7-9 in 2 Corinthians 3;

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."

What is the "ministration of death, written and engraved on stone" that caused the face of Moses to shine? Let's look at the original account in Exodus 34:29-33;

"And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that Yahweh had spoken with him in mount Sinai. And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a veil on his face."​

The Ten Commandments and all the other commandments that Yahweh had spoken were so glorious that they caused Moses' face to shine, so much so that he had to veil his face.

So, in other words, "the ministration of death" is not only the Ten Commandments, but all of Yahweh's commandments that comprised the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is identified as "written and engraven on stone" because the Ten Commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant.

In verse 7, the italicized word "glory" is not in the Greek text. The addition of the word "glory" leads one to believe it was the glory that was done away with. The translators undoubtedly added the word glory to prevent the reader from erroneously believing the Ten Commandments were done away with.

What Paul is really saying in verse 7 is that the Old Covenant is done away. The Greek word for "done away" means to become entirely idle, cease, be abolished, or vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 says the same thing;

"In that he says, a new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away."​

Paul is saying the Old Covenant is a ministration of death and condemnation, but something else was to replace it; the ministration of the Spirit and of righteousness. This is the New Covenant which is far more glorious than the Old Covenant because it is established on better promises, a better priesthood, a better sacrifice, and a better way of administering the covenant itself. The Old Covenant was administered through the letter. The New Covenant is administered through the Spirit. The Old Covenant law was written on stones and scrolls. The New Covenant law is written on our hearts. However, the Law of Yahweh cannot be written on a person's heart until their veil of blindness is removed through the acceptance of Yeshua the Messiah as one's Master and Savior.

Where in the TEN do you see this ministration of death and condemnation? It is the WAY of life.

 

[CherubRam]

Where in the TEN do you see this ministration of death and condemnation? It is the WAY of life.

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[visionary]

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

I see the WAY of life.

 

[Razare]

I've been trying to explain away all of Paul's anti-law statements as being about the oral laws...

I want to bang my head on walls when I hear Christians debate this. Both sides are wrong.

Paul is talking about the Mosaic law when he talks about those verses; HOWEVER, "free from the law of sin and death"...

because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. - Romans 8:2

Free from the law of sin and death, means free from sinning behavior, and free from death.

It frees us from both. We stop sinning by the spirit, and we also stop dying by the spirit.

No more sinning: So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

No more dying: And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. - Romans 8:11

If you are free from sin, and also free from the consequences of sin when you do sin, effectively the law is "done away with". It is done away with in terms of your behavior because you stopped sinning. It is done away with in terms of your life, because you stopped dying by the law.

The law itself, though, still stands. Christians were made to operate above and beyond the law, not under it.

"Do not commit adultery" is not really a Christian statement, because we were supposed to graduate into the Spirit and into love, where we help our neighbors generously. That we should not harm our neighbor with adultery goes without saying.

And when you break the law, the eternal covenant in Christ paid for forgiveness under the law, so even though you sin, death ultimately fails to reign in our eternal life with God, and also, death is minimized or eliminated / reversed in this life by faith.

But if a person spends all week sinning, and 5 minutes listening to God... it doesn't work. The faith they have is small, but the death they have been sewing is big, and they will reap death because faith wasn't watered.

 

[gadar perets]

Where in the TEN do you see this ministration of death and condemnation? It is the WAY of life.

They are certainly the "WAY of life" when they are obeyed, but they lead to death when broken under the "Old Covenant". For example;

Leviticus 20:10 Whatever man shall commit adultery with the wife of a man, or whoever shall commit adultery with the wife of his neighbour, let them die the death, the adulterer and the adulteress.
​

If a New Covenant believer committed adultery today, could he/she find grace and forgiveness so as not to die the death? I would say yes.

Another example;

Deuteronomy 21:20-21 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

Can this happen to the child of a New Covenant believer today? No. He may go his way into the world, but like the prodigal son he will be welcomed home by the Father upon repentance.

Under the New Covenant, the ministration of righteousness through the Spirit is far more glorious than the ministration of death and condemnation under the OC.

 

[gadar perets]

If you are free from sin, and also free from the consequences of sin when you do sin, effectively the law is "done away with". It is done away with in terms of your behavior because you stopped sinning. It is done away with in terms of your life, because you stopped dying by the law.

The law is not done away with in any sense. It is administered differently. Condemnation and death are removed and grace, mercy and forgiveness rule. Believers do not stop sinning. They may not practice sin, but sins are still committed here or there.

The law itself, though, still stands. Christians were made to operate above and beyond the law, not under it.

That is the ideal, but not the reality. Yahweh desires us to be sinless, but the reality is we still sin. "Under the law" means "under its condemnation" or under its oppressive thumb when we break it under the Old Covenant.

"Do not commit adultery" is not really a Christian statement, because we were supposed to graduate into the Spirit and into love, where we help our neighbors generously. That we should not harm our neighbor with adultery goes without saying.

Yet, how many professing believers commit adultery? Many. The command to not commit adultery remains for anyone who chooses to break it.

 

[Travis93]

"Do not commit adultery" is not really a Christian statement, because we were supposed to graduate into the Spirit and into love, where we help our neighbors generously. That we should not harm our neighbor with adultery goes without saying.

It already went without saying.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

How would you ever get to the point of committing adultery if you weren't even supposed to be lusting? That's the point Jesus was making here.
Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[tturt]

Just as a matter of clarification -
I'm quoted on this thread and it isn't a post of mine on any forum.

 

[Travis93]

Just as a matter of clarification -
I'm quoted on this thread and it isn't a post of mine on any forum.

Razare must have got us mixed up, probably juggling quotes from different threads or something, it was my post they quoted.

This is the thread it links back to, but my words are in the quote, quite the mix up.
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-man-and-woman.7961453/#post-70003096

 

[tturt]

Thanks for the reply. Didn't want to point to you like a kid. Appreciate it.

 

[Norbert L]

.2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

I've been trying to explain away all of Paul's anti-law statements as being about the oral laws of his day like the hand washing in Mark 7:1-8 since he tells us the law isn't voided (Romans 3:31) and is useful instruction for us (2 Timothy 3:16), but here he's saying it's engraved on stones, so it can't be anything oral. I know no true prophet would go against the law of Moses (Deuteronomy 13:1-5), so what's going on in this passage?

I consider "ministration of death" as an expression like "hit the road". Both of us exactly know if I were to tell you, to hit the road. We'd know exactly what was meant because both of us share a life experience that has defined that expression. But how does someone centuries removed and totally unaware of its' implications find the correct definition?

Personally I'm totally fine with not being 100% conclusive about this passage, but I have my leanings. I'm still searching it out (Romans 11:33), mostly because everyone else who says they've got this "truth", good for them. However there should be no shame in saying I don't have all it i's dotted and t's crossed yet.