What is the LCMS teaching on the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

[TCat]

I am curious as to the LCMS teaching regarding the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Things such as the laying on of hands for healing, speaking in tongues, gifts of prophecy, teaching, administrating etc. Paul talks alot about those gifts and how we are to eagerly desire such. I cannot recall learning much if anything about those gifts in my LCMS church and I wonder why not?

 

[Tangible]

Here's a pretty good explanation. Also, this: http://www.worldvieweverlasting.com/1/post/2010/11/tongues-tongues-and-more-tongues.html

YouTube - Ninjasmatic Gifts

 

[DaRev]

Gifts of the Spirit | The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

Gift of 'Tongues' | The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

 

[JimfromOhio]

Paul wrote "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25). Christians have the spiritual capacity in their charisma which is a gift of God's grace according to God's determinations. According to the Greek word charisma, we have received grace gifts. We are free in God's grace and empowered by the Holy Spirit to do right, to look at these others in a condescending way.

Charismatic Movement | The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

 

[TCat]

Thanks, that answers a lot of my questions.

 

[TCat]

As soon as my huband and I finish our commitment at our LCMS church we plan to begin searching elsewhere for a congregation. We are deep in prayer and visiting various pastors, church web sites and talking to other Christians. Am planning on attending an AOG church in a few weeks and wondered about it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

As soon as my huband and I finish our commitment at our LCMS church we plan to begin searching elsewhere for a congregation. We are deep in prayer and visiting various pastors, church web sites and talking to other Christians. Am planning on attending an AOG church in a few weeks and wondered about it.

Over 40 years, coming from Baptist/Anabaptist, I also experienced Charismatic churches like AOG. I have had issues with them. To be spirit-filled, because the Spirit indwells us as Christians, we ought to daily live a Spirit-controlled and empowered life. God wants us to be busy rejoicing in the gracious prospect of all opportunities of God's will. Those charismatics who knows what it means to be charismatics emphasize that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to build up the church and enrich worship of God, not to gratify the individual. Most Charismatic churches often gratify self and often mixed with Word of Faith. Many charismatics focus on "faith", that more faith you have, the more spiritual gifts you get. Faith is subjective, but it is sound only when it corresponds with objective reality. The man's faith in the mountain is valid only because the mountain is there; otherwise it would be mere imagination and would need to be sharply corrected to rescue the man from harmful delusion. So God is what He is in Himself. He does not become what we believe. "I AM That I AM." We are on safe ground only when we know what kind of God He is and adjust our entire being to the holy concept.

There are alot of debates relating to Charismatic doctrines. Spirit-filled-Charismatic section is VERY diverse with all forms of denominations and movements with different doctrinal views. It took me almost 40 years to change because I was victimized because I grew up in a certain theological system and I become indoctrinated by what I have learned over the years that I have struggled by defending what I have learned and can't seem to let go of it. I have learned that most Christian churches and denomination believe in Spirit Gifts. Spirit-filled is not about how successful your spiritual-gifts are but rather accepting God's eternal gift. "If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). God wants us to be busy rejoicing in the gracious prospect of all opportunities of God's will. Churches often make it clear that spiritual gifts (i.e. charismatics) knows what it means to be spiritual emphasize that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to build up the church and enrich worship of God, not to gratify the individual. God gives us, one by one, the gifts and the graces of the Holy Spirit sufficiently. We also are to observe the involvement of the individual members. Do they exercise their spiritual gifts among the Body of Christ (Rom. 12:3-8; Eph. 4:11-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11)?

I like this site: CLC Spiritual Gifts Discovery Tool a local LCSM in Indiana helping Christians understand spiritual gifts.

 

[TCat]

Thanks for your response Jim, I know that people sometimes will twist and make what God has given them for His glory into self glorification. I also know that it is by their love and fruit that we recognize fellow saints.
We have been spending a lot more of our time in the Bible recently trying discern where the Lord is leading us. That we are to move on from our current church is clear, move to where is uncertain. But we trust that the Lord will lead us to the place where we can continue to mature and be used for His church.

 

[alexnbethmom]

and can you get into why you feel you must move on from your church, or why you must leave the LCMS?

i'm not as learned as most on here, but i was dragged to a lot of charismatic churches when i was growing up - and it never ever EVER sat right with me....to see people jumping up and down for no reason, falling on the ground, laughing hysterically, crying hysterically, babbling like crazy people - none of that felt like it was from God, even back then when i was an adolescent/young teenager....

and FWIW, i have an acquaintance who goes to an AoG church, and their sermons are nothing but doom and gloom - there is basically NO Good News, just hellfire and damnation.....

i have enough trauma in my life - i don't need something like that shoved down my throat on Sunday too....

 

[TCat]

I grew up in the S Baptist Church til I was a teen, then into the Methodist church wil I left home at 18. Gone from the church and far from God til I was in my mid 30's. The Holy Spirit persued me for years before I came to the LCMS church of which I am currently a member.
It is in this church that my prodigal heart came to know the Lord and begin to grow in faith. I have loved this church and had both my children baptised, my son confirmed and my husband and I both served VERY actively until last year.
Now I know we have to leave, it breaks my heart but we are no longer being fed, no longer allowed to serve where we are gifted, no longer welcome. I can't even get my pastors to meet with me, they are to busy and we are not important enough to bother them.
We have given ourselves a year from the time we knew we were no longer welcome to heal and make sure we were not being rash or leaning on feelings. We will finish our commitment in 2 weeks and then we are free.
We do plan on attending at least 1 LCMS church in the area, it is a nice church but very small and with no youth to speak of. My son wants to either find a church with us or find his own. He has been hurt tremendously and will no longer consider the call into ministry that he talked of since he was a small boy.
And to be quite honest there are things about the LCMS which I just don't understand biblically. I have to rely on the internet for teaching and this website for clarity into issues that I struggle with spiritually.
I am weary and ready to give up but rather than let my faith become weak and flicker into a smoldering wick we are choosing to move forward and ask the Lord to fan us back into flames.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I grew up in the S Baptist Church til I was a teen, then into the Methodist church wil I left home at 18. Gone from the church and far from God til I was in my mid 30's. The Holy Spirit persued me for years before I came to the LCMS church of which I am currently a member.
It is in this church that my prodigal heart came to know the Lord and begin to grow in faith. I have loved this church and had both my children baptised, my son confirmed and my husband and I both served VERY actively until last year.
Now I know we have to leave, it breaks my heart but we are no longer being fed, no longer allowed to serve where we are gifted, no longer welcome. I can't even get my pastors to meet with me, they are to busy and we are not important enough to bother them.
We have given ourselves a year from the time we knew we were no longer welcome to heal and make sure we were not being rash or leaning on feelings. We will finish our commitment in 2 weeks and then we are free.
We do plan on attending at least 1 LCMS church in the area, it is a nice church but very small and with no youth to speak of. My son wants to either find a church with us or find his own. He has been hurt tremendously and will no longer consider the call into ministry that he talked of since he was a small boy.
And to be quite honest there are things about the LCMS which I just don't understand biblically. I have to rely on the internet for teaching and this website for clarity into issues that I struggle with spiritually.
I am weary and ready to give up but rather than let my faith become weak and flicker into a smoldering wick we are choosing to move forward and ask the Lord to fan us back into flames.

I see what you are saying. I have visited some local LCMS churches and right away, I know I don't fit "in" with them. When investigating a potential church home, I often pay particular attention to how it views the Bible, observe what kind of preaching is done, and observe whether the church practices the doctrines it claims to believe and teach. As James said to the church at large, “Prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves” (James 1:22; cf. Luke 6:46; John 13:17). To me, a strong local church is marked by love. As I become acquainted with the church, do I sense that the members are loving one another as Christ commanded (John 13:34-35)?

It took me a long time to find a good LCMS Church.

 

[DaRev]

And to be quite honest there are things about the LCMS which I just don't understand biblically.

Such as...?

 

[TCat]

maybe another time Rev, I don't have the strength or the heart to bare the fight we always seem to engage in. I am tired and sore and completely done.
I went back to my posts on ecclisiatic authority from last year. It was painful to reread it all over again and stirred up some of the grief I had thought was put to rest. I have over stayed and am eager to leave at least this church, perhaps the denom while sort out the isssues.
I thank you for your kind support.

 

[DaRev]

maybe another time Rev, I don't have the strength or the heart to bare the fight we always seem to engage in. I am tired and sore and completely done.
I went back to my posts on ecclisiatic authority from last year. It was painful to reread it all over again and stirred up some of the grief I had thought was put to rest. I have over stayed and am eager to leave at least this church, perhaps the denom while sort out the isssues.
I thank you for your kind support.

I don't think I was "fighting" with you in that thread. In fact, I strongly suggested you leave that congregation because of their unChristian behavior.

I would hate to see you leave the Confessional Lutheran church, though. If you feel that you are not being fed where you are, you certainly are not going to be fed in another denomination, especially the AoG.

Please continue to pray.

 

[QuiltAngel]

TCat, it reads to me like you have pretty much settled on leaving not only your church, but you sound like you do not have much hope of remaining in the LCMS. Maybe I am interpreting this all wrong. You need to look at the pros and cons of any church you are looking at and make sure that the church is teaching what the Bible teaches. I don't think you are going to get our approval or blessing for leaving the LCMS entirely and to me it looks like that is what you are doing. We will pray for you and your family as you struggle with what to do.

 

[TCat]

Rev, no we did not fight in that thread and yes you did encourage me to leave that congregation. I just mean in general we seem to disagree often. Most of the time I appreciate your candor and direction and often you have give me pause to think so I appreciate it but I don't have the energy to go into my questions right now, knowing that we will have a few go arounds. Maybe another time if you wouldn't mind.

QuiltAngel, I don't mean to sound as if I am knocking the LCMS. My leaving this church has nothing to do with doctrine or sound preaching. It is a personal issue having to do with my family not the church itself. The problem is that my family needs a church that we can all grow in. A vibrate youth ministry, a good kids ministry, and hopefully a strong adult ministry with a heart for outreach into the hurting community. The few LCMS churches in my area, aside from the one I attend, are small and one is about to close from lack of attendence.

The fact is that aside from a few doctrinal questions I am very happy at the LCMS, but I think my family can take the next several months and visit a few churches, atttend some Bible studies and see what the Lord has in mund for us. Heck we may end up at the little nearly closed church for all I know.

I do know this, no matter what church we end up at, our family has learned it's lesson. Stay quiet, do not get over involved and do not go to a pastor for guidence unless you are willing to pay a heavy price and lose your heart.

 

[Aibrean]

So you want to attend a church that believes if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't fully Christian?

Better get ready to wear dresses every day and not cut (or dye) your hair.

I'd rather go to a church that preaches the law and gospel that what kind of gifts we should be having if we are truly Christian. We celebrate Christ working in us every single time we participate in Communion (well...not if you go to an AoG church). I don't need to have someone else tell me I'm not a Christian because I don't have the "Spirit" working in me through tongues.

If you don't believe me, it's right on their website (you'd probably have to get re-baptized if you weren't baptized by immersion):

WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’

The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance.

Yea...and the whole secret rapture thing..

The weight of Scripture supports a pre-Tribulation Rapture. Wherever teaching about the Second Coming occurs in the New Testament, imminence is underscored. To interpose other events before the Rapture does violence to such teaching.

I wonder if they ever missed this verse:

Who are these,clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Personally, if there wasn't another LCMS (or WELS because I don't really have too much of an issue with their doctrines for women) then I just wouldn't go to church. I'd rather be fed with proper instruction and have my children grow up the same then be taught things that were just not Biblical.

As we all have said, your pastor should be supportive in trying to help you through your situation. My husband regularly talks to the pastor at the LCMS church where he works. That's what the are there for. They aren't doing their job otherwise. A single pastor is not a reason to leave a denomination. Neither is a congregation.

 

[JimfromOhio]

As we all have said, your pastor should be supportive in trying to help you through your situation. My husband regularly talks to the pastor at the LCMS church where he works. That's what the are there for. They aren't doing their job otherwise. A single pastor is not a reason to leave a denomination. Neither is a congregation.

I agree. I have had same issues with some LCMS and WELS local churches. Took me a long time to find a church that shows they care. I can see why National LCMS wanting to change of how people worship and serve within each local churches.

As James said to the church at large, “Prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves” (James 1:22; cf. Luke 6:46; John 13:17). To me, a strong local church is marked by love. As we become acquainted with the church, do we sense that the members are loving one another as Christ commanded (John 13:34-35)? Many Charismatic and Pentecostals churches are strong in that area.

A strong local church is marked by love. Do the members seem to genuinely care for one another? Do they minister to each other's needs? As you become acquainted with the church, do you sense that the members are loving one another as Christ commanded (John 13:34-35)?

Jesus is absolutely amazing because of God's wonderful GRACE. Because in our own Church and/or Christian communities, we are friends with other believers who are members of our spiritual family. Hebrews 10:24-25 says, "Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together." That all believers are called to pray for, comfort, encourage, exhort, love, and teach one another (Col. 3:12-16). For those qualities and attitudes to be functional in our lives, we must be drawing on spiritual resources.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Uhm, my husband has a cousin who is AoG and she does not have to wear dressed and she can cut her hair. Just want to put that out there.

I agree that one pastor and church should not be the reason for leaving. I do remember a thread of TCat's a while back and there were some issues with them and the church. I am not a big fan of church "shopping." Would rather people know what doctrine is Biblically sound and find a church where that is the case.

 

[Aibrean]

Yea..but it's a real hit or miss with AoG....traditionally they are super conservative when it comes to "modesty".