What is included in God's agape love? What is excluded?

[com7fy8]

I understand that in God's agape love we do have family caring and sharing and therefore phileo brotherly love.

And there is pleasure of intimacy . . . spiritual . . . "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17). But this is not the same as marital physical eros, but better and nicer. As we grow in God's agape love, then, we do experience special oneness and spiritual pleasure by being "one spirit with" our Groom Jesus, and with one another.

So, humanly, there is separation of human eros and phileo from God's agape. But in God's one love we do have His family affection and pleasure of intimacy spiritual with our Groom Jesus. In His love we are in Heaven's own pleasantness and rest; this is what I mean by pleasure of intimacy with Him.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

The concept of agape love for others revolves around caring about their ultimate well being and relationship with God through Jesus.

It can be parallel to other forms of "love" in many ways, but is in direct conflict to that sense of 'eros' which deals with a sexual partner as a means to pleasure.

 

[Righttruth]

I understand that in God's agape love we do have family caring and sharing and therefore phileo brotherly love.

And there is pleasure of intimacy . . . spiritual . . . "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17). But this is not the same as marital physical eros, but better and nicer. As we grow in God's agape love, then, we do experience special oneness and spiritual pleasure by being "one spirit with" our Groom Jesus, and with one another.

So, humanly, there is separation of human eros and phileo from God's agape. But in God's one love we do have His family affection and pleasure of intimacy spiritual with our Groom Jesus. In His love we are in Heaven's own pleasantness and rest; this is what I mean by pleasure of intimacy with Him.

Agape love is exclusive.

4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

You form a family through carnality. Friendly love is included. But the superior is the friendly love with neighbors.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I understand that in God's agape love we do have family caring and sharing and therefore phileo brotherly love.

And there is pleasure of intimacy . . . spiritual . . . "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17). But this is not the same as marital physical eros, but better and nicer. As we grow in God's agape love, then, we do experience special oneness and spiritual pleasure by being "one spirit with" our Groom Jesus, and with one another.

So, humanly, there is separation of human eros and phileo from God's agape. But in God's one love we do have His family affection and pleasure of intimacy spiritual with our Groom Jesus. In His love we are in Heaven's own pleasantness and rest; this is what I mean by pleasure of intimacy with Him.

I know how much you love to pay attention to detail com7fy8. Here are some interesting facts about love phileo and agape

The first time Jesus asked Peter "lovest thou/agape Me"
Peter answered "You know that I love/philio You"

Lexicon :: Strong's G25 - agapaō
ἀγαπάω
Transliteration
agapaō
Pronunciation
ä-gä-pä'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
Perhaps from agan (much) [or cf φιλέω (G5368)]

Lexicon :: Strong's G5368 - phileō
φιλέω
Transliteration
phileō
Pronunciation
fē-le'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From φίλος (G5384)

Jhn 21:15
So G3767 when G3753 they had dined, G709 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 to Simon G4613 Peter, G4074 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou G25 me G3165 more than G4119 these? G5130 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 lambs. G721​

Jesus asks Peter again "do you agape Me", Peter answered "You know that I philio You"

He saith G3004 to him G846 again G3825 the second time, G1208 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou {BG25 me? G3165 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G4165 my G3450 sheep. G4263​

Jesus asks for the third time "Peter do you philoe/love me."
Peter says" Lord you know all things, you know that I philio/love you."

Jhn 21:17
He saith G3004 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 Peter G4074 was grieved G3076 because G3754 he said G2036 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 And G2532 he said G2036 unto him, G846 Lord, G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 all things; G3956 thou G4771 knowest G1097 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 sheep. G4263
G5384)​

 

[W2L]

I know how much you love to pay attention to detail com7fy8. Here are some interesting facts about love phileo and agape

The first time Jesus asked Peter "lovest thou/agape Me"
Peter answered "You know that I love/philio You"

Lexicon :: Strong's G25 - agapaō
ἀγαπάω
Transliteration
agapaō
Pronunciation
ä-gä-pä'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
Perhaps from agan (much) [or cf φιλέω (G5368)]

Lexicon :: Strong's G5368 - phileō
φιλέω
Transliteration
phileō
Pronunciation
fē-le'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From φίλος (G5384)

Jhn 21:15
So G3767 when G3753 they had dined, G709 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 to Simon G4613 Peter, G4074 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou G25 me G3165 more than G4119 these? G5130 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 lambs. G721​

Jesus asks Peter again "do you agape Me", Peter answered "You know that I philio You"

He saith G3004 to him G846 again G3825 the second time, G1208 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou {BG25 me? G3165 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G4165 my G3450 sheep. G4263​

Jesus asks for the third time Peter do you philoe/love me.
Peter says Lord you know all things, you know that I philio/love you.

Jhn 21:17
He saith G3004 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 Peter G4074 was grieved G3076 because G3754 he said G2036 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 And G2532 he said G2036 unto him, G846 Lord, G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 all things; G3956 thou G4771 knowest G1097 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 sheep. G4263
G5384)​

I read that the other day. Do you see any significance in this?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I read that the other day. Do you see any significance in this?

It seemed that Peter was at that time only capable of brotherly love, but that seemed to be enough for Jesus to place him as a shepard over the sheep. Not that that would mean much unless you were Catholic...

 

[W2L]

It seemed that Peter was at that time only capable of brotherly love, but that seemed to be enough for Jesus to place him as a shepard over the sheep. Not that that would mean much unless you were Catholic...

That is what some scholars teach, but the article I read says that the words are interchangeable throughout the NT, and the distinction isn't actually made.

Here is one example that would tend to disprove the assertion that there is a distinction between these two words.


http://www.learnthebible.org/agape-and-phileo.html

More important still for our present purpose is the fact that John himself uses the two verbs interchangeably elsewhere in his Gospel, e.g. in the statement that 'the Father loves the Son' (agapao in 3:35
See All...; phileo in 5:20
See All...) and in references to 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' (agapao in 13:23
See All...; 19:26
See All...; 21:7
See All..., 20; phileo in 20:2
See All...). It is precarious, then, to press a distinction between the two synonyms here."

 

[W2L]

The article above says that these two scriptures use two different words for love. One uses agape and the other uses phileo. I haven checked to see if in fact they do use those words, but I'm taking the word of the author of that web page. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the words in these scriptures.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.


John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

That is what some scholars teach, but the article I read says that the words are interchangeable throughout the NT, and the distinction isn't actually made.

Here is one example that would tend to disprove the assertion that there is a distinction between these two words.


http://www.learnthebible.org/agape-and-phileo.html

More important still for our present purpose is the fact that John himself uses the two verbs interchangeably elsewhere in his Gospel, e.g. in the statement that 'the Father loves the Son' (agapao in 3:35
See All...; phileo in 5:20
See All...) and in references to 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' (agapao in 13:23
See All...; 19:26
See All...; 21:7
See All..., 20; phileo in 20:2
See All...). It is precarious, then, to press a distinction between the two synonyms here."

The article above says that these two scriptures use two different words for love. One uses agape and the other uses phileo. I haven checked to see if in fact they do use those words, but I'm taking the word of the author of that web page. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the words in these scriptures.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.


John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.

I have an old Cruden's concordence but am still looking to find where it's used. Also the wordage from the translation that I posted (KJV) has different wording for love ie: different placement of the greek references.
Maybe the wording is different in other translations. I have known of KJV to be the only translation that changes they to we in Rev 4 in regard to the elders so nothing would surprise me.

But I don't think of Stronge's concordence as an unreliable source. I'll look into it further

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

More important still for our present purpose is the fact that John himself uses the two verbs interchangeably elsewhere in his Gospel, e.g. in the statement that 'the Father loves the Son' (agapao in 3:35
See All...; phileo in 5:20
See All...) and in references to 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' (agapao in 13:23
See All...; 19:26
See All...; 21:7
See All..., 20; phileo in 20:2
See All...). It is precarious, then, to press a distinction between the two synonyms here."

Can you clarify what reference is for what please ... I see a lot from Habbakkuk but don't know if they refer to agape or phileo.

 

[W2L]

I have an old Cruden's concordence but am still looking to find where it's used. Also the wordage from the translation that I posted (KJV) has different wording for love ie: different placement of the greek references.
Maybe the wording is different in other translations. I have known of KJV to be the only translation that changes they to we in Rev 4 in regard to the elders so nothing would surprise me.

But I don't think of Stronge's concordence as an unreliable source. I'll look into it further

I don't know either way, but after reading that article, I wont concern myself with the distinction at all, unless I see another type of distinction, other than the one we have been hearing by some scholars. To me love will be love until I see proof of a distinction. Its possible that the two words are merely synonyms and not really distinguishably different. I don't know.

 

[W2L]

Can you clarify what reference is for what please ... I see a lot from Habbakkuk but don't know if they refer to agape or phileo.

Those words are not mine, they belong to the author of that link I posted above them. You can use this interlinear software to investigate these scriptures further if you want.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't know.

Me neither :shrug:

 

[Fireinfolding]

I agree with one of the posts above which says they can be used interchangly, Phileo (love) is elsewhere, even shown in love of the Father (Christ-ward and us-ward)

John 16:27 "No, the Father himself "loves" G5368 (Phileo) you because you have "loved" G5368 (phileo) me..."

John 5:20 For the Father "loveth" G5368 (Phileo) the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Rev 3:19 "Those whom I "love" G5368 (Phileo) I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."

John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus "loved" G5368 (Phileo), and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

So when Jesus said this

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest G5368 (Phileo) thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love G5368 (Phileo) thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He also said this elsewhere

Mat 10:37 He that loveth G5368 (Phileo) father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth G5368 (Phileo) son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

1Cr 16:22 If any man love G5368 (Phileo) not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I agree with one of the posts above which says they can be used interchangly, Phileo (love) is elsewhere, even shown in love of the Father (Christ-ward and us-ward)

John 16:27 "No, the Father himself "loves" G5368 (Phileo) you because you have "loved" G5368 (phileo) me..."

John 5:20 For the Father "loveth" G5368 (Phileo) the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Rev 3:19 "Those whom I "love" G5368 (Phileo) I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."

John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus "loved" G5368 (Phileo), and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

So when Jesus said this

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest G5368 (Phileo) thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love G5368 (Phileo) thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He also said this elsewhere

Mat 10:37 He that loveth G5368 (Phileo) father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth G5368 (Phileo) son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

1Cr 16:22 If any man love G5368 (Phileo) not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Do you have scriptural references for agape?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Do you have scriptural references for agape?

You can just link to the word itself, I dont know if the links are still good here, but heres all I found in my doc search in what I was looking at a decade ago, but far more thorough to search it online

Heres three (just these)

Agape = 1) brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence2) love feasts

But these two are used "interchangeable" (see below)

Phileo = 1) to love a) to approve of b) to like c) sanction d) to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend 2) to show signs of lovea) to kiss 3) to be fond of doing a) be wont, use to do

Agapao1) of personsa) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly2) of thingsa) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing

"Charity" (Agape) its showing its root word is in Agapao

1Cr 13:4 "Charity" (Agape) suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, etc.

Charity (Agape) http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?show_strongs=yes&word=charity*+26

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the "love" (Agape) of God in you.

Love (Agape) http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?show_strongs=yes&word=love*+26


"Phileo" and "Agapao"


2Peter 2:15 who "loved" (agapao) the wages of unrighteousness.

Romans 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and "love" (agapao) the other; or else he will ((hold to the one )) and ((despise the other)). Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast "loved" (agapao) righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

2Peter 4:10 Demas, because he "loved" (agapao) this world, has deserted me...

1John 2:15 "Love" (agapao) not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man "love" (agapao) the world, the "love" (Agape) of the Father is not in him.

The "love' (Agape) ~of Christ~ is ~the Agape~ of God

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the "love" (Agape) of God in you.

So hese two (Agapao and Agape) "can" interchange as well

1John 4:8 He that "loveth" (Agapao) not knoweth not God for God is "love" (Agapao)

Same here...

1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we "love" (agapao) one another, God dwelleth in us, and his "love" is perfected in us.

John 21:20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus "loved" (agapao)

John 20:2 She came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus "loved" (phileo)

Again...

Hebrews 12:6 "The Lord disciplines those he "loves" (agapao) and he punishes"...

Revelation 3:19 "Those whom I "love" (phileo) I rebuke and discipline..."

Again...

Luke 11:43 ..."love" (agapao) the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the market-places."

Luke 20:46 "..."love" (phileo) to be greeted in the market-places and have the most important seats in the synagogues."

Here as well interestingly enough...

John 5:20 "For the Father "loves" (phileo) the Son and shows him all he does..."

John 16:27 "No, the Father himself "loves" (phileo) you because you have "loved" (phileo) me..."

Rev 3:19 "Those whom I "love" (phileo) I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."

And ofcourse this one...

Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love (agape) me ""more than"" these?"

"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love (phileo) you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."

Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love (agape) me?"

He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love (phileo) you."

Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."

The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love (phileo) me?"

Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."

The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love (phileo) me?"

Peter hurt, because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love (phileo) me?"

He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love (phileo) you."

Jesus said, "Feed my sheep."

But Jesus does say here...

John 16:27 "No, the Father himself "loves" (phileo) you because you have "loved" (phileo) me..."

So Phileo (love) and Agapao (love) seem to be used interchangeably.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Hmn I wonder why He asked him three times if that's the case. Anyway, g'night

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Those words are not mine, they belong to the author of that link I posted above them. You can use this interlinear software to investigate these scriptures further if you want.
http://www.scripture4all.org/

The link to the interlinear gave the same results as to the Greek and the meaning as in my first post here

I know how much you love to pay attention to detail com7fy8. Here are some interesting facts about love phileo and agape

The first time Jesus asked Peter "lovest thou/agape Me"
Peter answered "You know that I love/philio You"

Lexicon :: Strong's G25 - agapaō
ἀγαπάω
Transliteration
agapaō
Pronunciation
ä-gä-pä'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
Perhaps from agan (much) [or cf φιλέω (G5368)]

Lexicon :: Strong's G5368 - phileō
φιλέω
Transliteration
phileō
Pronunciation
fē-le'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From φίλος (G5384)

Jhn 21:15
So G3767 when G3753 they had dined, G709 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 to Simon G4613 Peter, G4074 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou G25 me G3165 more than G4119 these? G5130 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 lambs. G721​

Jesus asks Peter again "do you agape Me", Peter answered "You know that I philio You"

He saith G3004 to him G846 again G3825 the second time, G1208 Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest thou {BG25 me? G3165 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Yea, G3483 Lord; G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 He saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G4165 my G3450 sheep. G4263​

Jesus asks for the third time "Peter do you philoe/love me."
Peter says" Lord you know all things, you know that I philio/love you."

Jhn 21:17
He saith G3004 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Simon, G4613 son of Jonas, G2495 lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 Peter G4074 was grieved G3076 because G3754 he said G2036 unto him G846 the third G5154 time, Lovest G5368 thou me? G3165 And G2532 he said G2036 unto him, G846 Lord, G2962 thou G4771 knowest G1492 all things; G3956 thou G4771 knowest G1097 that G3754 I love G5368 thee. G4571 Jesus G2424 saith G3004 unto him, G846 Feed G1006 my G3450 sheep. G4263
G5384)​

as shown here in your link also:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh21.pdf

I see no reason to disbelieve that is what was meant from the interaction of Peter and Jesus. IE: That it was in fact about the type of love expressed.
««« Not as the other link you provided ( http://www.learnthebible.org/agape-and-phileo.html ) which is trying to maintain that Peter was given 3 versions of the same thing because of Peter's denial of Him 3 times.

The proof in Greek, with the Greek being in my first post above and in the interlineal, clearly says that
1)
The first time Jesus asked Peter "lovest thou/agape Me"
Peter answered "You know that I love/philio You"
2)
Jesus asks Peter again "do you agape Me",
Peter answered "You know that I philio You"
3)
Jesus asks for the third time "Peter do you philoe/love me."
Peter says" Lord you know all things, you know that I philio/love you."

I`ll leave it to others to decifer what they may from it.

 

[W2L]

The link to the interlinear gave the same results as to the Greek and the meaning as in my first post here
as shown here in your link also:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh21.pdf

I see no reason to disbelieve that is what was meant from the interaction of Peter and Jesus. IE: That it was in fact about the type of love expressed.
««« Not as the other link you provided ( http://www.learnthebible.org/agape-and-phileo.html ) which is trying to maintain that Peter was given 3 versions of the same thing because of Peter's denial of Him 3 times.

The proof in Greek, with the Greek being in my first post above and in the interlineal, clearly says that
1)
The first time Jesus asked Peter "lovest thou/agape Me"
Peter answered "You know that I love/philio You"
2)
Jesus asks Peter again "do you agape Me",
Peter answered "You know that I philio You"
3)
Jesus asks for the third time "Peter do you philoe/love me."
Peter says" Lord you know all things, you know that I philio/love you."

I`ll leave it to others to decifer what they may from it.

It may be that we are reading too much into these words, but maybe not enough too. Perhaps Jesus was saying that If peter loved him like a brother, then he should feed his sheep by loving them like a brother. I don't know. I have no idea, but I'm having a hard time seeing how agape love is more Godly than phileo. Just look at all those scriptures that refer to God showing phileo not agape. They may not be different kinds of love necessarily but perhaps are just showing who or what is being loved.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Can you clarify what reference is for what please ... I see a lot from Habbakkuk but don't know if they refer to agape or phileo.

Cassia, you will not find reference to either agape or phileo in Habakkuk. Habakkuk was written in Hebrew, both agape and phileo are Greek words.

One of the words listed in Habakkuk 3:2 is (Stong's H7355) 'racham' meaning "to love, love deeply, have mercy, be compassionate, have tender affection, have compassion". Which has some of the flavor of agape, but seems a bit more 'general purpose' in scope. Similar is the modern English word 'love' which includes everything from family to country to ice cream. (Then again, the ancient Hebrew was a somewhat primitive language, meaning 'simple'; New Testament Greek was far more precise and sophisticated in scope.)