What happened to Lonnie Frisbee after he left the Vineyard?

[Markus6]

As for the Vineyard and the Emerging Church Movement, there is no “official” position regarding it. From my conversations with colleagues there seems to be some elements of the EC that are appealing but as far as the movement goes, the jury is still out. There does seem to be some reservation about Emerg-ent (as opposed to Emerg-ing) beliefs, though.

I have no idea what the “Presence Movement” is.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

Perhaps to illustrate the diversity of Vineyard churches I do know of at least a couple that are out and out emerging: the Ann Arbor Vineyard, senior pastor Ken Wilson, in America (interestingly uses the word Emerg-ent on their website) and the Sutton Vineyard, senior pastors Jason & Bev Clark, in the UK (Jason is on the co-ordinating group of Emergent).

Has far as I know these churches are in the minority. The Vineyard I attend is certainly not emerging/ent.

 

[banish'd]

Personally, I don’t feel obligated to “explain” Vineyard “doctrine” to every person that visits our church. If they have questions, I will be happy to answer them. but in this age of the Internet I feel that they can learn what Vineyard believes simply by going to the VineyardUSA website and reading it for themselves (without all that “explanation” ).

Here’s what Vineyard churches believe: http://www.vineyardusa.org/site/about-vineyard

Some Vineyard churches are small and some are mega-church sized. It all depends on what you are most comfortable with, I suppose. Personally, I wouldn’t want to attend a church where I had no opportunity to know everyone, a church of say 200-300 people in regular attendance. That is a fellowship large enough to have all the resources needed to do effective service in the community. Any church that exceeds that size should seriously consider planting another church, IMO.

One of my friends, a Vineyard pastor, planted a church in Ohio that grew from his den to a church of 6,000 at their weekend services in just over a decade. He told me that if he had it to do over again he would prefer to plant 20 churches of 300 or even 100 churches of 60 than the mega-church he pastored.

As for the Vineyard and the Emerging Church Movement, there is no “official” position regarding it. From my conversations with colleagues there seems to be some elements of the EC that are appealing but as far as the movement goes, the jury is still out. There does seem to be some reservation about Emerg-ent (as opposed to Emerg-ing) beliefs, though.

I have no idea what the “Presence Movement” is.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

JimB,

The "Presence Movement" is part of the United States Apostolic Alliance (USAA), and Dutch Sheets is one of the four men in leadership under presiding Apostle Peter Wagner.

The Bible Study at the small Vineyard Church was about "Intercessory Prayer" by Dutch Sheets.

This is what I snipped from the Internet:

" In the first part of this two part article we discussed Dutch Sheets claiming that God visited him on June 15th 2008. During this alleged visitation “God” told him to host His presence for 90 days and to hold 3 days of worship starting September 11th through the 13th to mark the last three days of the 90 day period. The 90 days would serve to incubate and mature the movement before it would be released mainstream. Enter Moses."

The Coming Presence Movement- Should we be Alarmed? | Deception Bytes

"They are also quick to note that these meetings are being held 88 days after the original “visitation” Dutch Sheets experienced. He compares this hosting of His Presence to Obed-edom hosting the Ark of the Covenant, also called “the Ark of His Presence” (2 Samuel 6:10-11)

So naturally, knowing that Lonnie Frisbee talked a lot about spiritual visitations, I had plenty of questions at the Bible study. Anyway, we run amuck, and I dropped out. We like the pastor, so I plan to continue on with the Sunday Services. The personality of the pastor shouldn't be an issue, but that is what my wife and I look at that first.

 

[gratefulgrace]

How do people get like this so megalomanic?

 

[JimB]

JimB,

The "Presence Movement" is part of the United States Apostolic Alliance (USAA), and Dutch Sheets is one of the four men in leadership under presiding Apostle Peter Wagner.

The Bible Study at the small Vineyard Church was about "Intercessory Prayer" by Dutch Sheets.

This is what I snipped from the Internet:

" In the first part of this two part article we discussed Dutch Sheets claiming that God visited him on June 15th 2008. During this alleged visitation “God” told him to host His presence for 90 days and to hold 3 days of worship starting September 11th through the 13th to mark the last three days of the 90 day period. The 90 days would serve to incubate and mature the movement before it would be released mainstream. Enter Moses."

The Coming Presence Movement- Should we be Alarmed? | Deception Bytes

"They are also quick to note that these meetings are being held 88 days after the original “visitation” Dutch Sheets experienced. He compares this hosting of His Presence to Obed-edom hosting the Ark of the Covenant, also called “the Ark of His Presence” (2 Samuel 6:10-11)

So naturally, knowing that Lonnie Frisbee talked a lot about spiritual visitations, I had plenty of questions at the Bible study. Anyway, we run amuck, and I dropped out. We like the pastor, so I plan to continue on with the Sunday Services. The personality of the pastor shouldn't be an issue, but that is what my wife and I look at that first.

Okay.

No, I don’t think most Vineyard guys I know would want to be a part of that. The Vineyard and Wagner parted company more than a decade ago.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

 

[JimB]

Perhaps to illustrate the diversity of Vineyard churches I do know of at least a couple that are out and out emerging: the Ann Arbor Vineyard, senior pastor Ken Wilson, in America (interestingly uses the word Emerg-ent on their website) and the Sutton Vineyard, senior pastors Jason & Bev Clark, in the UK (Jason is on the co-ordinating group of Emergent).

Has far as I know these churches are in the minority. The Vineyard I attend is certainly not emerging/ent.

I know Ken Wilson personally, have sat under his teaching, and I would not classify him as “Emerging/Emergent” at all. Wilson is a sharp guy and picks up tools and strategies for ministry anywhere he finds them truthful and effective, even “emerging” stuff. But then, any pastor worth his salary does.

I have not had the opportunity to meet Jason Clark. Yet.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

 

[Markus6]

I know Ken Wilson personally, have sat under his teaching, and I would not classify him as “Emerging/Emergent” at all. Wilson is a sharp guy and picks up tools and strategies for ministry anywhere he finds them truthful and effective, even “emerging” stuff. But then, any pastor worth his salary does.

I have not had the opportunity to meet Jason Clark. Yet.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

This is from the Ann Arbor Vineyard's website under "emergent faith":

This page includes perspectives that have been hashed out or articulated with a view toward shaping whatever it is the Vineyard Church of Ann Arbor is becoming. Much of it, I think, is in the ballpark of what some are calling Emergent faith, but I'm not really sure, and if it's something else that's fine by me. I do know it's the best we've been able to come up with so far in the noble task of engaging our culture with an ear tuned to the gospel and a heart open to the Spirit. Consider it our contribution to the conversation that is properly underway to help us discover who it is we're meant to be together.

Not exactly committal, but the unsureness/open mindedness is pretty characteristic of emerging/ent. My first (and only in person) experience of him was at the Vineyard leaders conference in Galveston where he gave a talk entitled "the missional implications of our stance towards science". Pretty good stuff.

I first came across Jason Clark on the internets and found a mp3 of him talking about what emergent faith is to evangelicals. Very informative and interesting.

 

[banish'd]

Getting back to the OP of this thread. I am on my way up to Guerneville which is a small hippie town located just north of San Francisco. I am driving up there to check out the Russian River for Steelhead Fishing. Guerneville is one of the last hippie towns, and I will ask around about Lonnie Frisbee. I plan to have a good ole hippie home cooked meal for lunch. Maybe I will buy some Mary Jane scent, too.

 

[BenAdam]

Getting back to the OP of this thread. I am on my way up to Guerneville which is a small hippie town located just north of San Francisco. I am driving up there to check out the Russian River for Steelhead Fishing. Guerneville is one of the last hippie towns, and I will ask around about Lonnie Frisbee. I plan to have a good ole hippie home cooked meal for lunch. Maybe I will buy some Mary Jane scent, too.

If my memory is correct, there is a great Italian Restraunt in Guerneville.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Mary jane scent why would you want it?

 

[banish'd]

Mary jane scent why would you want it?

Hello Gratefulgrace,

Scent oil stays on a lot longer than cologne, and my wife likes that hippie smell better than Old Spice. The shops up in Guerneville don't know anything about Mary Jane scent oil, or Lonnie Frisbee, either. I paid $8.95 for a tiny bottle of local scent oil.

The Guerneville hippies look older, and they still look like they haven't shampooed their hair in over six months. King's Sport in town wants $200 per per person for drift boat trips. (minimum 2)

Guerneville is 55 miles north up in the Redwood Forest, and along the Russian River. The hippies, well, they don't change much, except for some grey hair now.

Lonnie is said to have moved up here to San Francisco into a commune called the Big House in the Haight Asbury district. At present the Haight Asbury district sidewalks are lined with young hippies sitting there begging for money. The city is currently passing an ordinance to stop them from sitting on the sidewalk blocking entrances.

 

[JimB]

This is from the Ann Arbor Vineyard's website under "emergent faith":

Not exactly committal, but the unsureness/open mindedness is pretty characteristic of emerging/ent. My first (and only in person) experience of him was at the Vineyard leaders conference in Galveston where he gave a talk entitled "the missional implications of our stance towards science". Pretty good stuff.

I first came across Jason Clark on the internets and found a mp3 of him talking about what emergent faith is to evangelicals. Very informative and interesting.

Thanks for the heads up.

BTW, I was at the Galveston conferences with you and may have attended this workshop.

By my definition of Emerg-ing vs. Emerg-ent, I would say Wilson is more Emerging than Emergent. Mark Driscoll has a short reflection on these terms on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcbnGXSYxuI​

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

 

[banish'd]

JimB,

Thanks, that video helped me understand what has happened in the small churches during recent years. However, the YouTube Video that I am posting shows why we clashed at the Vineyard Bible Study. It was not a bible study, it was an Emerging House Church. People my age are slightly Emergent, and many simple quit going to church because of it.

The people who held the Emerging House Church (bible study) expected me to sit there quietly while they indoctrinated me, which of course, is impossible at my age. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, especially, if it involves Dutch Sheet and his used car saleman approach.

At first glance, the Emerging stuff is well suited for yuppies, because they can rule over us. However, I am planning to follow through with Vineyard and see what comes out of it. As a liberal Emergent I like new ideas.

Thanks for opening my eyes to what is going on nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fgkfS6E-0b

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Emerging vs Emergent is confusing .

but i'm somewhere in there .

 

[JimB]

JimB,

Thanks, that video helped me understand what has happened in the small churches during recent years. However, the YouTube Video that I am posting shows why we clashed at the Vineyard Bible Study. It was not a bible study, it was an Emerging House Church. People my age are slightly Emergent, and many simple quit going to church because of it.

The people who held the Emerging House Church (bible study) expected me to sit there quietly while they indoctrinated me, which of course, is impossible at my age. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, especially, if it involves Dutch Sheet and his used car saleman approach.

At first glance, the Emerging stuff is well suited for yuppies, because they can rule over us. However, I am planning to follow through with Vineyard and see what comes out of it. As a liberal Emergent I like new ideas.

Thanks for opening my eyes to what is going on nowadays.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I am sorry you are experiencing this. Some Vineyard people are Emerging, some are Emergent, and some reject both. There is no official position on any of it. Personally, I am Emerging in the sense that I believe all Christians should emerge (grow) from where they are but I do not accept all of what is taught under that label. Most Emerging advocates are trying to think outside the traditional box in order to address the concerns of people immersed in postmodern philosophy, which is the predominate thinking of most young people growing up in the Information Age. I support that because of the Apostle’s example in 1 Corinthians 9.19-23, but I realize that in venturing into such areas we have to be careful not to throw aside “sound doctrine” in the process. Unfortunately, some have.

BTW, have you expressed your concerns to the pastor one-on-one? It's a sad fact of life but sometimes a pastor is the last one to know what goes on in private lives and in home groups.

~Jim

Changing one thing for the better is worth more than proving a thousand things are wrong.​

 

[Redeemed76]

Satan wants to bring confusion into the Body of Christ. One of his favorite strategies is to use a person's past weaknesses to seduce them back into their past sinful addictions. It may be alcohol, marijuana, inappropriate contentography, gambling, or anything else. So Lonnie fell back. It does not mean he was not saved. It definitely does not mean homosexuality is okay or genetic. Thousands of homosexuals have been saved and delivered never to go back to the lifestyle. Others struggle for years. Some of them go back and forth between heterosexual and homosexual relationships. Some even have kids in a God approved marriage but then fall back. They should always be received back into the fold when they repent. The only thing that needs to be rejected in Jesus name is the idea that God approves of homosexual relationships. It is always an abomination.

 

[Surfer51]

I met Lonnie's grade-school art teacher - wow, what a mighty woman of God in her eighties now, I believe..... Lonnie actually spent his last days with her and prayed an amazing prayer over her before he died, which she in turn prayed over my husband about three years ago.

I agree with you about that wonderful artistic woman of God!

One thing I would like to say in gentle correction:

John Wimber who with Lonnie built up the "vineyard association of Churches," had, by the suggestion of Paul Cain while they both were in England, come to the financial rescue of Lonnie Frisbee when Lonnie was diagnosed with AIDS.

John rented an apartment on Balboa Peninsula in Newport Beach for Lonnie as a hospice because Lonnie wanted to die there.

John provided a car and groceries also.

Maurine, a woman Lonnie had brought to the Lord during one of his home Bible studies that I was present at, was Lonnie's caretaker during his last days here on earth.

He passed away in her arms as she was carrying his frail body to the bedroom for the last time.

She told us that Lonnie feebly sang that Bee Gees song "Staying Alive" as he passed on to be with the Lord.

Interestingly, I was told, Lonnie's mother was in her home praying at the exact same time, "Lord please take my son home so he suffers no longer or please heal him."

I have uploaded Lonnie's last public meeting here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bcfVPT-GnI
Here is one of Lonnie's artworks I used to own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRc_IlbPtE
And another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsANDQgRVSM
I interviewed a pastor friend about Lonnie Frisbee here:

Lonnie was my spiritual father in the Lord because I got saved through a powerful 'one on one encounter' with him way back in 69.

He mentored me in the Lord until 1973 when he secretly got involved with a man who Lonnie told me wanted to "rent an apartment and keep him."

At the time he told me what was happening Lonnie laid his hand on me and "released" me into God's care and proclaimed that he was no longer responsible for me.

At that time I was really confused about it because I had not known of Lonnie's struggles with being gay.

Looking back now I understand.

Surfer51
Shekinah Fellowship