What evidence is there that Democrats would've handled anything differently with Covid?

[flicka]

I doubt anything would have been different. If Trump acted sooner it would have led to a major "resist" moment and everyone knows it. He got dragged for stopping planes from China for heavens sake. Listen to the W.H.O. and CDC is all anyone could have done, and because of that nobody else would have acted any faster or somehow "saved" us. As the biggest international hub in on the plant there is no scenario where the USA was spared. And the President doesn't have the power to shut down the nation, and that's ON PURPOSE. Nobody else would have been able to do anything different.

We aren't even sure this shutdown was the right thing are we? Maybe lives were saved, maybe they weren't, maybe things will get better, maybe the country and economy is doomed. Only when we get some distance and look back will we be able to know.

 

[timothyu]

Listen to the W.H.O. and CDC is all anyone could have done, and because of that nobody else would have acted any faster or somehow "saved" us.

Was the idea to save us or to create a necessity for future benefit? Time will prove that concept correct. This virus was the World Health and the aligned foundation's 'weapon of mass destruction' needed to pursue their agenda. History always repeats if it works each time. It matters not if it proves to be unsubstantiated down the line, just like Iraq. The wheels have been set in motion.

 

[disciple Clint]

That doesn't really matter.

Trump's advisors were struggling to convince Trump that we needed to mandate social isolation by February 26. Trump wasn't listening and was still hosting rallies at that point ...

No Dr Fauci on feb 28 said we could go about life as normal.

 

[CaspianSails]

There's a few different premises floating around in the social ether...

One I agree with, the other I reject...

The one I agree with: "Trump waited too late to act on the situation"

The one I disagree with: "This could've all been prevented if we only had a real leader in office instead of Trump" (the implication that if one of voices from the democratic party had been in the 'big chair', they would've acted sooner and things would've been prevented from getting as out of hand as they've become)

Given that Cuomo, DeBlasio, Gov. Edwards of Louisiana, and Pelosi (while now all critical of presidential inaction) also downplayed the virus through late-Feb/early-March - (and both Sanders and Biden rejected the first round of travel restrictions in late-Jan), is there any evidence to suggest that earlier action would've been taken if one of those folks were in the 'big chair' in January or February?

My personal viewpoint is that we would've dropped the ball no matter which party was in power...as the list of governors who actually took quick action is a rather short list that includes Newson, DeWine, and a select few others. And even the ones who acted the soonest (when given full authority to decide when to do it) opted to wait until early-March to issue the orders.

It would seem that nobody on either side was willing to pull the trigger on a shutdown order (which they knew could have other detrimental effects) prior to March - and understandably so as obviously doing so comes with complications. Even Fauci was saying in late-Feb...

View attachment 277578

...when other experts had suggested earlier social distancing requirements, but only by a week or two.

Are there any indicators to suggest that some of the popular voices in the democratic party would've been issuing stay-at-home orders on Feb 15th if they were in the hot seat? (apart from 'hindsight is 20/20' types of comments that they've provided)

Consider this my name is also Rob and I agree with you in your conclusion. Is it any coincidence that while not a programmer I am a designer of networks but I am too humble to use the extraordinaire, even if it were true which it may be. Ok, everyone that is just some lighthearted wording there.
The only perfect man is no longer here in body, He is know sitting at the right hand of His father advocating for His children.

 

[disciple Clint]

At the time it was believed "community spread" had not yet occurred in the United States. Fauci noted "When you start to see community spread, more measures will be needed." He also emphasized the country needs to "identify, isolate and contact trace." So yes, his comments reflected the knowledge at the time.

What kept Fauci from looking at the experience of other countries? Trump has done what he should do considering the information from his advisors. Just a reminder that when Trump said there should be a reduction in exposure by staying at home and or closing some businesses, the state governors immediately told him that he did not have the authority to tell them what to do in their states.

 

[A_Thinker]

For instance, the Harvard, MGH, Boston Medical Center and Georgia Tech model has a worst case scenario range of 364,000 to 1,540,000 deaths by the end of August. The same model has a best case scenario of 109,000 to 170,000 deaths (IC model had best case of 87,000 deaths, worst case at 2.2 million).

Now, are they "wildly overestimating"? Or, are they (like the IC model) providing possible outcomes based on the evidence available.

The upper bounds reflect the numbers we could be facing, ... if there were no mitigation measures (i.e. quarantines, lock-downs, testing, social distancing, face-masks, viable therapies, vaccines, etc.).

The only reason we are in the lower ranges ... is because we have taken some steps, though imperfectly, to mitigate the crisis ...

 

[A_Thinker]

What kept Fauci from looking at the experience of other countries? Trump has done what he should do considering the information from his advisors. Just a reminder that when Trump said there should be a reduction in exposure by staying at home and or closing some businesses, the state governors immediately told him that he did not have the authority to tell them what to do in their states.

Trump did not get there until March 31. By then, NYC had already been in shut-down for two weeks.

 

[A_Thinker]

We aren't even sure this shutdown was the right thing are we?

Yes ... we are.

We flattened the curve significantly.

The increase in the daily additional cases in he US is no longer rising exponentially.

We had gotten to the point where the number of cases added every day was approaching 40,000. To-date, it has fallen back into the 10,000/day range.

Hopefully, we'll keep things moving in the right direction.

If you want to see what would have happened if we had done nothing, keep your eyes on Brazil ...

 

[disciple Clint]

Trump did not get there until March 31. By then, NYC had already been in shut-down for two weeks.

Looks like March 17th he raised the question but did not think it would be required

 

[A_Thinker]

No Dr Fauci on feb 28 said we could go about life as normal.

That was his official public statement ... in-line with Trump's position at the time.

Behind the scenes, Trump's advisors were struggling to move him to a different position.

Fauci, who does not hold the reins of power in his position, struggled to comply with the official administration line, rather than get out in front of Trump.

He made the calculation that it was better for the situation if he stayed in his positioned ... rather than do something that would force Trump to fire him.

He continues in that struggle. Fauci, Birx, and all those others who hung in there with the pandemic team, despite their daily consternations, will ultimately be proven to be the real American heroes in the country's leadership ... when all of the stories are told ... and books written.

I have a cousin who works in the CDC. There is much yet to be told ...

 

[disciple Clint]

That was his official public statement ... in-line with Trump's position at the time.

Behind the scenes, Trump's advisors were struggling to move him to a different position.

Fauci, who does not hold the reins of power in his position, struggled to comply with the official administration line, rather than get out in front of Trump.

He made the calculation that it was better for the situation if he stayed in his positioned ... rather than do something that would force Trump to fire him.

He continues in that struggle. Fauci, Birx, and all those others who hung in there with the pandemic team, despite their daily consternations, will ultimately be proven to be the real American heroes in the country's leadership ... when all of the stories are told ... and books written.

I have a cousin who works in the CDC. There is much yet to be told ...

Other than your cousin is there an evidence for what you posted because if that is what happened I would like to know. The msm tried to present a case that Fauchi was being muzzled by Trump and Fauchi said "I’ve never been muzzled and I’ve been doing this since Reagan." Doctor Fauci responded. "That was a real misrepresentation of what happened." NIH's Dr. Fauci: "I've Never Been Muzzled" By The Trump Administration; "A Real Misrepresentation" By Media

 

[A_Thinker]

Other than your cousin is there an evidence for what you posted because if that is what happened I would like to know. The msm tried to present a case that Fauchi was being muzzled by Trump and Fauchi said "I’ve never been muzzled and I’ve been doing this since Reagan." Doctor Fauci responded. "That was a real misrepresentation of what happened." NIH's Dr. Fauci: "I've Never Been Muzzled" By The Trump Administration; "A Real Misrepresentation" By Media

From ... Trump's mismanagement helped fuel coronavirus crisis

"After senior CDC official Nancy Messonnier correctly warned on Feb. 25 that a U.S. coronavirus outbreak was inevitable, a statement that spooked the stock market and broke from the president’s own message that the situation was under control, Trump himself grew angry and administration officials discussed muzzling Messonnier for the duration of the coronavirus crisis, said two individuals close to the administration. However, Azar defended her role, and Messonnier ultimately was allowed to continue making public appearances, although her tone grew less dire in subsequent briefings."

 

[disciple Clint]

From ... Trump's mismanagement helped fuel coronavirus crisis

"After senior CDC official Nancy Messonnier correctly warned on Feb. 25 that a U.S. coronavirus outbreak was inevitable, a statement that spooked the stock market and broke from the president’s own message that the situation was under control, Trump himself grew angry and administration officials discussed muzzling Messonnier for the duration of the coronavirus crisis, said two individuals close to the administration. However, Azar defended her role, and Messonnier ultimately was allowed to continue making public appearances, although her tone grew less dire in subsequent briefings."

I suspect that the truth is somewhere between the article you posted and this one, only time will tell what mistakes were made and who made them. The only thing we know for certain is that hindsight is 20/20
President Donald J. Trump's Timely Responses to COVID-19 - Faith and Freedom Coalition

 

[A_Thinker]

From ... This Is Trump’s Fault

"Even if Trump did not know what was happening, other Americans did. On January 27, former Vice President Joe Biden sounded the alarm about a global pandemic in an op-ed in USA Today. By the end of January, eight cases of the virus had been confirmed in the United States."

 

[A_Thinker]

From ... This Is Trump’s Fault

"The White House had dissolved the directorate of the National Security Council responsible for planning for and responding to pandemics?

"Not me", Trump said on March 13. "Maybe somebody else in the administration did it, but “I didn’t do it" ... I don’t know anything about it. You say we did that. I don’t know anything about it.”

 

[wing2000]

What kept Fauci from looking at the experience of other countries? Trump has done what he should do considering the information from his advisors. Just a reminder that when Trump said there should be a reduction in exposure by staying at home and or closing some businesses, the state governors immediately told him that he did not have the authority to tell them what to do in their states.

What makes you think he didn't observe the experience of other countries? The rest of your post is frankly, changing events to fit your narrow narrative.

 

[wing2000]

I doubt anything would have been different. If Trump acted sooner it would have led to a major "resist" moment and everyone knows it.

Real leaders act and lay out an informed case for doing so.

 

[camille70]

Other than your cousin is there an evidence for what you posted because if that is what happened I would like to know. The msm tried to present a case that Fauchi was being muzzled by Trump and Fauchi said "I’ve never been muzzled and I’ve been doing this since Reagan." Doctor Fauci responded. "That was a real misrepresentation of what happened." NIH's Dr. Fauci: "I've Never Been Muzzled" By The Trump Administration; "A Real Misrepresentation" By Media

That's what almost everyone from, the Ukraine president on, says when asked about Trump's behavior. The full truth will come out once he is out of office and no longer in a position to take punitive actions against those who oppose or contradict him.

 

[rambot]

If only there were a way to immediately trace and contact an individual. You'd think in this age of technology and cloud storage that everyone could be coded and pinpointed, even automatically have connections traced and recorded.

There is!
A microchip in a vaccine timothyu!

 

[rambot]

I doubt anything would have been different. If Trump acted sooner it would have led to a major "resist" moment and everyone knows it. He got dragged for stopping planes from China for heavens sake.

No he didn't. ONLY Chinese nationals were not permitted to travel into the US and flights were rerouted to certain cities. 430,000 people came in from China.
He got "dragged" for targetting Chinese nationals when Americans could carry the sickness in too. So then...what's the point in stopping planes?

Listen to the W.H.O. and CDC is all anyone could have done, and because of that nobody else would have acted any faster or somehow "saved" us. As the biggest international hub in on the plant there is no scenario where the USA was spared. And the President doesn't have the power to shut down the nation, and that's ON PURPOSE. Nobody else would have been able to do anything different.

Oh. AGreed. Y'all were BOUND to become infected. That's unavoidable.

We aren't even sure this shutdown was the right thing are we? Maybe lives were saved, maybe they weren't, maybe things will get better, maybe the country and economy is doomed. Only when we get some distance and look back will we be able to know.

EVERY country that put mitigating factors in place AND had a populace that practice them, has seen success in flattenning their curve, relative to the public response. It seems a bit strange to suggest the steps have had no effect.

Of course, that is ALSO, the point of prophylaxis and the underlying pain in the butt associated with it. Because, invariably, the question becomes "Well, it wasn't so bad so maybe we didn't have to do it to begin with".

I would argue there are a few things that would have definitely been different:

1) The plan created under Obama would not have been disregarded and would have been implemented and the team created by him would have coordinated a MUCH faster response than was seen. There is no rational way to deny that point.
2) Y'all wouldn't have had a president that, as late as midMarch was minimizing the threat from this disease. I mean, April 29 he was still downplaying the need for test.
How can it be argued that the man ACTUALLY has concern for this pandemic?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...0f5afb-4dda-48bf-abe1-b7d152d5138c_video.html