What does scripture say about Gods Law?

[Kira Light]

The presumed logic of omission does not negate any part of God's Law. The Sabbath is referenced many times in the New Testament. It is written: "Jesus attended the Tabernacle on the Sabbath day and as His tradition was, stood up to read..."

Of course he would attend that...

It is incredibly odd Jesus didn't include Sabbath-keeping in his list of commandments when asked if it is VITAL for salvation.

 

[Stan Tei]

It is quite ironic that you seem this reply you make is all about the seventh day Sabbath. It is of no argument that you seek that there must be a command directly from Jesus. Should it not suffice that He calls us to obey the Scriptures? Has God changed after He said: "I change not"? Go take your Sabbath argument to a Catholic. Even they know that the Scriptures call for the seventh day on this matter, and that Protestants have no standing on that issue.

Must I repeat all the post concerning the Law of God and His Statutes?

 

[Kira Light]

It is quite ironic that you seem this reply you make is all about the seventh day Sabbath. It is of no argument that you seek that there must be a command directly from Jesus. Should it not suffice that He calls us to obey the Scriptures? Has God changed after He said: "I change not"? Go take your Sabbath argument to a Catholic. Even they know that the Scriptures call for the seventh day on this matter, and that Protestants have no standing on that issue.

Must I repeat all the post concerning the Law of God and His Statutes?

Do you toss out any of the laws given to the children of Israel?

 

[Stan Tei]

As a matter of point "I" do not toss out laws, nor does anyone else. Only God can change His Laws.
Two parts of the Law have changed; 1 The laws concerning the Levitical priesthood, since Christ, after the order of Melchizidek, has replaced the priesthood, as the Apostle Paul had explained, and 2. The law of sacrifices, since the death of Christ on the cross is the fulfillment of the animal sacrifices. The other statutes remain.

 

[Kira Light]

It is quite ironic that you seem this reply you make is all about the seventh day Sabbath. It is of no argument that you seek that there must be a command directly from Jesus. Should it not suffice that He calls us to obey the Scriptures? Has God changed after He said: "I change not"? Go take your Sabbath argument to a Catholic. Even they know that the Scriptures call for the seventh day on this matter, and that Protestants have no standing on that issue.

Must I repeat all the post concerning the Law of God and His Statutes?

It is clearly insufficient to tell us to obey scriptures when even you admit certain things change. Look at the billions of Christians who didn't understand it the way you do. Countless souls lost needlessly over misinterpretation.

If God knows all then he knew how end times would play out and that 99% of Christians would be lost over the 4th commandment. Why didn't he list keep the sabbath when he was asked which commandments we must keep? Think of how radically different the world would be. Instead he waited over 1800 years to send EGW to tell us this all important detail that he apparently forgot.

I was raised SDA but this issue cannot thus far be reconciled in my mind.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It is clearly insufficient to tell us to obey scriptures when even you admit certain things change. Look at the billions of Christians who didn't understand it the way you do. Countless souls lost needlessly over misinterpretation.

If God knows all then he knew how end times would play out and that 99% of Christians would be lost over the 4th commandment. Why didn't he list keep the sabbath when he was asked which commandments we must keep? Think of how radically different the world would be. Instead he waited over 1800 years to send EGW to tell us this all important detail that he apparently forgot.

I was raised SDA but this issue cannot thus far be reconciled in my mind.

Nor should it be reconciled if the outcome would be to deny salvation to 99% of the people who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ to save them eternally.

 

[Stan Tei]

The issue that led Cain to kill his brother was over the manner in which the two brothers chose to worship God. Abel did what God said to do, whereas Cain chose to worship God in his own way, not doing as God commanded. His sacrifice of the "firstfruits" of what he grew was not acceptable to God. God made the Sabbath day holy, it is not a common day. It is written "whatsoever God blesses is blessed forever." Not only do I keep the seventh day holy, but all the other seven yearly Feast Sabbaths. Only God can make a day holy, and nothing that God has made holy, has He ever changed and turned it into a common thing. You either keep holy the day that God commanded, or you keep another day, such as the Catholic who are trying to enforce its observance contrary to God's Law. Even a Catholic theologian will agree that the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Scriptures, and that Protestants have no standing.

As for those two parts of the Law that has changed, it was 1) the law of sacrifices because the lamb types of blood sacrifices were of the old dispensation before Christ which pointed forward to the antitype which was Christ. This was foretold in Daniel to come to its end and explained extensively by Paul in the New Testament. Also 2) the Levitical Priesthood, which was also reverted to Christ because He is our High Priest, after the order of Melchizedek, which predated the Levitical priesthood. This also was explained by Paul extensively. By these two changes we have a sacrifice for ourselves and a High Priest to administer it on our behalf. No other Law was changed. The seventh day Sabbath is a Law that is binding upon all Christians, and no one who excuses their disobedience will be saved. The ONLY Sundaykeepers who are saved in the Kingdom of God are those who sinned out of ignorance, not knowing the controversy of this Law.

 

[Stan Tei]

Of course he would attend that...

It is incredibly odd Jesus didn't include Sabbath-keeping in his list of commandments when asked if it is VITAL for salvation.

Jesus ONLY reiterated a few of the commandments. Surely His omission of any of the other commandments does not give anyone license to disobey them. Not only is the word "LAW" as it is written in the New Testament referring to the Ten Commandments, but the word in its original language as it was written, is the word "TORAH" which is all of the first five books of Moses.

“The closing words of Malachi are a prophecy regarding the work that should be done preparatory to the first and the second advent of Christ. This prophecy is introduced with the admonition, ‘Remember ye the law of Moses, my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.’” Malachi 4 (The Southern Watchman, March 21, 1905)

 

[Stryder06]

It is clearly insufficient to tell us to obey scriptures when even you admit certain things change. Look at the billions of Christians who didn't understand it the way you do. Countless souls lost needlessly over misinterpretation.

None will be lost over misinterpretation. Those who are lost will be lost because they rejected the truth as it was presented to them as it was made available at the time. We are required to live according to the light given at the time.

If God knows all then he knew how end times would play out and that 99% of Christians would be lost over the 4th commandment. Why didn't he list keep the sabbath when he was asked which commandments we must keep? Think of how radically different the world would be. Instead he waited over 1800 years to send EGW to tell us this all important detail that he apparently forgot.

First, 99% of Christians won't be lost for not keeping the sabbath. So rest easy on that. Second, the ten commandmenst detail how we are to love God and love our neighbor. When Christ said "Love the Lord your God." that covered 1-4. When he said "Love your neighbor" that covered 5-10.

Figure also that out of the ten, the 4th is the only one that says "Remeber". That alone should be reason enough for us to not forget it.

I was raised SDA but this issue cannot thus far be reconciled in my mind.

Well hopefully this straightened out that for you
The truth of the matter is that everyone who is lost will be lost because they remained in rebellion against God. No one can speak for anyone else, but we can say that the Lord works to lead His children into light on an individual basis.

For example, I bet there will be slave owners in heaven who never learned that owning slaves were wrong, but loved God will all of their heart, while there will be those who professed a love for God, but rejected the idea that owning slaves was wrong. The latter of the two class would be excluded from glory because of their unwillingness to walk in the light being presented to them.

There will be people in heaven who never understood the truth about the sabbath, but walked in the light they had, while others who had the truth laid out to them, but rejected it because of the hardness of their hearts, will be excluded.

 

[OldStudent]

Please, pay attention. The law of Levitical priesthood, the law of a carnal commandment, carnal ordinances, the law of commandments contained in ordinances (Eph 2:15) is gone…

I was raised in SDA schools. I was taught something like you just expressed. But recently I reviewed the Old/New Covenant idea. That brought a conclusion like this: No the ceremonial law was not done away with in quite the way we were taught. The ceremonial law, the Tabernacle and the pageantry that took place in its precincts, was illustrative and prophetic. When Jesus shed His blood He became the Lamb that died in our place. Upon His resurrection and ascension to heaven He became our High Priest. Those things that were illustrated in the earthy Tabernacle He actually could do and could actually make it work and make it stick. He COULD forgive and clear our sin. He COULD actually make us new creatures. The “New Covenant” Jesus sealed with His blood was a change of administration. What the Levitical priesthood could not do – He, in the heavenly sanctuary as THE High Priest could. Much of the letter to the Hebrews is dissertation about this change of administration. Perhaps we could say the "ceremonies" of the old covenant became the "proceedures" executed in the new.

Be careful. Those in the OT looked forward to the Redeemer who would succeed. They appropriated the graces of confession, forgiveness, justification, sanctification – having His law written on their hearts all enabled by Christ. We look backward to the Redeemer who has succeeded.

There are several views into the heavenly sanctuary in Revelation where John sees Jesus administering His service there. A good understanding of the goings on in the earthly tabernacle is very useful in appreciating what John is seeing and saying.

 

[Kira Light]

None will be lost over misinterpretation. Those who are lost will be lost because they rejected the truth as it was presented to them as it was made available at the time. We are required to live according to the light given at the time.



First, 99% of Christians won't be lost for not keeping the sabbath. So rest easy on that. Second, the ten commandmenst detail how we are to love God and love our neighbor. When Christ said "Love the Lord your God." that covered 1-4. When he said "Love your neighbor" that covered 5-10.

Figure also that out of the ten, the 4th is the only one that says "Remeber". That alone should be reason enough for us to not forget it.



Well hopefully this straightened out that for you
The truth of the matter is that everyone who is lost will be lost because they remained in rebellion against God. No one can speak for anyone else, but we can say that the Lord works to lead His children into light on an individual basis.

For example, I bet there will be slave owners in heaven who never learned that owning slaves were wrong, but loved God will all of their heart, while there will be those who professed a love for God, but rejected the idea that owning slaves was wrong. The latter of the two class would be excluded from glory because of their unwillingness to walk in the light being presented to them.

There will be people in heaven who never understood the truth about the sabbath, but walked in the light they had, while others who had the truth laid out to them, but rejected it because of the hardness of their hearts, will be excluded.

Appreciate the response. You seem a tad more liberal in your views since last I talked to you. Your views mirror my own in my latter days as a believer in SDA teachings.

All I can say about this is that it doesn't quite wash with me to say that a person is judged based upon what they are given. Say, for instance, I was raised SDA so I have the Sabbath truth known to me. Am I lost if I don't keep it? Or must I believe that I have to keep it and then still refuse in order to be lost? It just starts to seem like there is no point in keeping the Sabbath if the keeping of it isn't salvational. In fact, spreading this knowledge of the Sabbath would only seem to lose more souls because more people would know about it and presumably not all would keep it. It is like a poison pill sabotaging their salvation. Knowledge that damns.

 

[Kira Light]

Jesus ONLY reiterated a few of the commandments. Surely His omission of any of the other commandments does not give anyone license to disobey them. Not only is the word "LAW" as it is written in the New Testament referring to the Ten Commandments, but the word in its original language as it was written, is the word "TORAH" which is all of the first five books of Moses.

“The closing words of Malachi are a prophecy regarding the work that should be done preparatory to the first and the second advent of Christ. This prophecy is introduced with the admonition, ‘Remember ye the law of Moses, my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.’” Malachi 4 (The Southern Watchman, March 21, 1905)

My point is that God, knowing all, must have known what his recitation of only some of the Ten Commandments would have done in these latter days. If he had simply said, "keep the 10 commandments", so much confusion would have been avoided. It is like a riddle now, with more than 99% of christians failing to figure it out. Why would God do that?

 

[Stan Tei]

You cannot base the entire Gospel upon a single reference in which Jesus answered another man's question. There are a plethora of other Scriptures that say far more than the one you quoted. If you know the Sabbath as the Law and refuse to keep it, then yes, you are lost.

 

[Stryder06]

Appreciate the response. You seem a tad more liberal in your views since last I talked to you. Your views mirror my own in my latter days as a believer in SDA teachings.

I can promise you my views haven't changed, but it's possible that my way of explaining them has.

All I can say about this is that it doesn't quite wash with me to say that a person is judged based upon what they are given. Say, for instance, I was raised SDA so I have the Sabbath truth known to me. Am I lost if I don't keep it? Or must I believe that I have to keep it and then still refuse in order to be lost? It just starts to seem like there is no point in keeping the Sabbath if the keeping of it isn't salvational. In fact, spreading this knowledge of the Sabbath would only seem to lose more souls because more people would know about it and presumably not all would keep it. It is like a poison pill sabotaging their salvation. Knowledge that damns.

Knowledge of God damns if one does not act upon it. You don't have to go so deep with the sabbath. What about people who simply choose not to believe in God? Are they damned because they choose to not believe, even if they live a good life? Are we damning people by spreading the news of Jesus on the off chance that they will still reject Him?

The truth about the sabbath is pivotal because of it's role in the last test that God will bring upon mankind. Keeping the sabbath is an issue about salvation, just like keeping commandments 1-3 and 5-10 is. You can't love God the way you want to. You have to love Him the way He has shown us, because the way He shows us is the only right way.

 

[Kira Light]

I can promise you my views haven't changed, but it's possible that my way of explaining them has.



Knowledge of God damns if one does not act upon it. You don't have to go so deep with the sabbath. What about people who simply choose not to believe in God? Are they damned because they choose to not believe, even if they live a good life? Are we damning people by spreading the news of Jesus on the off chance that they will still reject Him?

The truth about the sabbath is pivotal because of it's role in the last test that God will bring upon mankind. Keeping the sabbath is an issue about salvation, just like keeping commandments 1-3 and 5-10 is. You can't love God the way you want to. You have to love Him the way He has shown us, because the way He shows us is the only right way.

There are just a couple things we have to agree to disagree about. You say we have to love God the way he has shown us. I submit that He must have failed to show us how to love him since more than 99% of Christians seemingly didn't get the message.

You say keeping the sabbath is an issue about salvation, but is it salvational? seems you go back and forth on this. You said you believe a person can be saved without keeping it.

As for the sabbath being the final test, that is pure speculation. There is no proof of this. It is based on your interpretation and remains to be seen.

 

[Kira Light]

You cannot base the entire Gospel upon a single reference in which Jesus answered another man's question. There are a plethora of other Scriptures that say far more than the one you quoted. If you know the Sabbath as the Law and refuse to keep it, then yes, you are lost.

I'm not clear on your definition of "know" here. I was raised SDA, so do I "know" that Sabbath is the law? Or must I believe that I must keep it and still disobey?

There is quite a bit of scripture that says we are saved by grace and not law. I know SDA's like to wrap grace back up in the law, but that seems to lessen grace to me. Am I saved by Jesus alone, or is it 99% Jesus and 1% my good deeds? Are my good works not filthy rags?

 

[Stryder06]

There are just a couple things we have to agree to disagree about. You say we have to love God the way he has shown us. I submit that He must have failed to show us how to love him since more than 99% of Christians seemingly didn't get the message.

What's with you and this ridiculous statistic? I can tell you this, 100% of Christians will be saved. Those who are lost will have been judged as unworthy by God and as such, were never followers of Him.

You say keeping the sabbath is an issue about salvation, but is it salvational? seems you go back and forth on this. You said you believe a person can be saved without keeping it.

This goes back to that who being judged based on the light you have thing. To whom much is given, much is required.

As for the sabbath being the final test, that is pure speculation. There is no proof of this. It is based on your interpretation and remains to be seen.

I'm passed the "your interpretation" thing. If that's how you want to play it that's on you.

 

[Kira Light]

What's with you and this ridiculous statistic? I can tell you this, 100% of Christians will be saved. Those who are lost will have been judged as unworthy by God and as such, were never followers of Him.



This goes back to that who being judged based on the light you have thing. To whom much is given, much is required.



I'm passed the "your interpretation" thing. If that's how you want to play it that's on you.

There are 2.2 billion Christians in the world and about 20 million Sabbath keepers. I believe that equates to less than 1% of Christians interpreting the Bible the way you do. Why would Jesus give "the light" to so few? Especially if it is vital in end times, as you have stated.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

The light in regard to the Sabbath truth, when it was first brought to view, was proclaimed to all the churches but it was resisted. It will be again proclaimed to all the world in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. Revelation 18:1 predicts that it will. So the truth is not only for the few but for all.

sky

 

[Kira Light]

The light in regard to the Sabbath truth, when it was first brought to view, was proclaimed to all the churches but it was resisted. It will be again proclaimed to all the world in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. Revelation 18:1 predicts that it will. So the truth is not only for the few but for all.

sky

Interesting. So EGW was the first time it was brought to view? Is that right? Did she predict it would happen again? She believed Jesus would return in her life, so I don't quite understand that. Did EGW see Revelation 18:1 as something happening 100 years after her death? Just trying to make sense of this.