I'd like to tune this subject on Jesus' garments around the time of his ministry, before the crucifiction. Did Jesus wear clothing that was relevant?
simchat_torah said:He most likely also wore Tefillin and a Kippah.
Nehemiah_Center said:It has always been my contention that Y'shua wore a tallit openly and that this may have been more the custom in that His day that we suspect.
Joh 19:23 Then when they crucified Jesus, the soldiers took His garments and made four parts, a part to each soldier, also the tunic. And the tunic was seamless, woven from the top throughout.
If you were Europian and not really knowing what a tallit was how would you describe it? A tunic or wrap?
I want to make sure that I get a good Aramaic translation on this ShlomoThe Thadman said:Jesus commented against how the Chief Priests made theirs honkin' huge in Matthew,
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Shlomo,
-Steve-o
Pray4Isrel said:Wow - what interpretation is that?!?
Buuuuuuut SteeeeeeveThe Thadman said:It was a paraphrase on my part, not to be taken as litteral scripture Sorry for the confusion.
Shlomo,
-Steve-o
Hats were a late rabbinic tradition being added circa 1500 ce. However, the Talmud has many many references to the Kippah, so the tradition at least finds its origins to the first or second century. However we also see a few references to the Kippah in pre-Mishnaic writing as well, and many speculate the Kippah was adopted in part in Jeremiah's day from a previous unknown tradition.Kippah is a late rabbinic addition. He most likely covered His head with a tallit.
He probably didn't wear a kippah, as kippot were later inventions of rabbinic tradition, far after Jesus' time. Tefillin were something the Saducees invented (some say 1500 years after the Torah was given to Moses, other say much longer), and not all Jewish sects had adopted them until well after the fall of the temple in 70 (to this day, many sects still do not interpret Exodus 13:9 that way).
and two more references from the same article:Moshe Rabainu is one of our examples in the Torah.In Shemot 3:4-5, Yahweh commanded him to remove his shoes as he was on set-apart ground. Moshe being a shepherd in the desert of Midian surely wore some type of covering over his head to protect him from the blistering sun and heat, yet Yahweh NEVER commanded him to remove any head covering in His presence.
After the Exodus from Egypt Yahweh told Moshe to set-apart the first-born as Kohenim (priests) to Him (Ex.13: 1-2,19:3-24,24:4-8). This changed after the "golden calf" incident and Yahweh chose the sons of Lewi to be the Kohenim as the "First-born" had sinned against him. They disqualified themselves from the office of Kohen by idol worship. Yahweh commanded them to REMOVE the "ornaments" from them by Mt.Horev. This word is adiy or finery, trappings, headstall or headpiece. By stripping them of their "headpieces" Yahweh removed them from their office as Kohenim. The "glory, honor, and splendour"was removed from them and given to the tribe of Lewi.The Aaronic or Levitcal priesthood was commissioned to minister directly to Yahweh in the Mishkan (Tabernacle) Shemot 28:1;Bemidbar 8:16.
Turbans or Bonnets
Shemot 29:9 and 39:28 uses the word turban or bonnet as a part of the commanded garments of the Kohen.
TURBAN-#4021; migbaah: from #1389 a CAP (as a hemispherical) bonnet. The HEMI-means half, SPHERE means globe, ball, round. Hence the migbaah was shaped as a half a ball. It comes from #1389 gibah meaning a hillock, hill, little hill.
Now #1389 comes from #1387 Geba which comes from #1375-GeBiYa an unused root meaning to be convexed, a goblet, the calyx of a flower, cup, pot. The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible Vol.1 page 532, tells us that, "the cap of the priest was a conical-shaped object of finely woven linen tied on the head of the priest as a SIGN of his investiture. The CAP was a distinctive item of the priestly vestments." Websters New World Dictionary says that convex means "a vaulted arch, curving outward like the surface of a sphere." Now, if we take two convexo-convex pieces of linen material and sew them together, you would have the exact, small hilled, convex cap every priest wore when they served Yahweh. You can see that this design would be very similar as the modern "kippah" now worn.
The mitre (or official turban) of the Kohen HaGadol is called a mitsnephet in Hebrew. According to Philo and Josephus it consisted of an ordinary priests cap with a turban of dark blue color over it. Josephus (Antiq.111.vii.3, 6) says that the headgear of the priests was seemed at the folds and so became a cap. Clarkes Commentary, Vol. 1, page 445 tells us that; " the mitsnephet comes from the root to roll (tsanaph) or wrap around, it evidently means that covering of the head so UNIVERSAL in the Eastern countries which we call a turban which encompasses and binds the head.." . Note: only the High Priest wore the Turban or mitre, while the regular priests wore the cap!
The Brit Chadasha tells us we are a set-apart priesthood offering up spiritual sacrifices to Yahweh (1 Kepha 2:5). Should we not have on some type of head covering as we minister as a priest before Yahweh?
Remember, this is a part of Torah not a tradition or Talmud.
It is interesting that, according to the Torah, the Kohen HaGadol could NEVER UNCOVER HIS HEAD EVEN IN MOURNING FOR THE DEAD (Lev.21: 10-11). Yahshua is now our High priest after the order of Malkitzedek (Ivrim 6-8;Tehillim 110:4-6). Surely He wears some type of head covering as our High Priest as he ministers in the heavenly Mishkan.
As you can clearly see, covering of the head is quite an ancient idea. I will admit, however, that the practice of the Kippah was not established among the commoners until after the destruction of the temple. This was done because no longer was the establishment of the priests... and now the common man made Teshuvah with HaShem.King Dawid
Dawid the Melek Yisrael, a man after Yahwehs heart, worshipped with a head covering and his prayers were answered! In 2 Shemuel 15:30-37 Dawid went up to the Mount of Olives (just as Yahshua did) weeping, barefoot, and having his head covered. And ALL the people covered their heads and went up weeping and Dawid said, "O Yahweh, I PRAY YOU..". Dawid was seeking Yahwehs face and supplicating Him for help in a time of trouble. Yahweh answered Dawids prayer. Therefore we know Yahweh hears us when we pray with our heads covered! That has never changed!
The Book of Daniel
Chananyah, Mishael, and Azraryah were three Yahudites taken captive in Babylon between 598-582 BCE. All the people of rank, laws, judgments, and proper dress codes were also taken to Babylon according to 2 Melakim 24:14. Daniel and these three Hebrews served in the court of Nebukadnetsar.They REFUSED to defile themselves with Babylonian ways! In Daniel 3:21, were told these three that REFUSED TO BOW TO THE BABYLONIAN GODS AND WAYS were thrown with their "TURBANS" on into the fire! We know the Babylonians also wore a headcovering in their daily life, AS DID THE YAHUDITES. The fact that they did, DOES NOT NEGATE THE USE OF HEAD COVERINGS FOR YISRAEL. We know in most Middle Eastern countries men do wear turbans or caps. The Yahudites carried this into the Babylonian exile. They did not pick it up there!
Yechezqel, who prophesied just before and after the captivity, was COMMANDED BY YAHWEH TO PUT A TURBAN ON HIS HEAD in Ezek.24: 15-17 and then he commanded all of them to do the same in verses 20-23!
What about 1 Corinthians 11:4?
Lets look at that verse in the Greek and see what it really means. FIRST YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A MISTRANSLATION OF THIS VERSE! It is only ONE MISTRANSLATED WITNESS that people try to quote to "prove" head coverings for men are wrong in the eyes of Yahweh.
· 1 Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, brings shame to his Head." The Scriptures
· Complete Jewish Bible by David Stern, "Every man who prays or prophesies wearing something down over his head.."
· COVERED -#2596 KATA- down, about, AGAINST, in OPPOSITION TO, down from (like a VEIL hanging from his head) Thayers page 327. This word then can mean 1. To hang down from the head (over the face) like a womans veil [which in context makes sense as Rav Shaul is contrasting the worship of men and women, and that men are not to look like women-Rabbi Ed] 2. In opposition to or opposed to.
· HEAD # 2776 KEPHALE; KAPTO the HEAD (literally or figuratively) supreme, chief, prominent, MASTER page 345 Thayers. This is the same word used twice in this verse. Why was one capitalized and the other isnt? There are no capitals in Greek.
This verse is NOT against head coverings for men. It is against the wearing of a veil by a man over his face, as was the custom of the women of that period! Why does Rav Shaul speak of men wearing long hair or actually adoring the long locks of hair with ornamental jewels as women (the word is #2863 in Greek KOMAO- wear long tresses of hair, locks, as ornamental (length is secondary) from #2864-KOME). Shaul did not want the men of Corinth (center for male temple prostitutes of Apollo, Poseidon, and other gods) to be mistaken for women in their dress, and hairstyle-other wise NO CROSS-DRESSING. The men were pulling their long locks of hair over their faces as a veil as was the manner of women and imitating their hairstyles and manner in prayer. THIS IS NOT TALKING OF A MAN WEARING A HEAD COVERING IN PRAYER OR WORSHIP BUT A VEIL!
Actually, I think the translation from the Institute for Scripture Research uses the word tzit tzit. Now, whether they were simply leaving the language in tact as they usually do, or whether they were including their own conclusions in scriptural translation is up for clarification.Nehemiah_Center said:It has always been my contention that Y'shua wore a tallit openly and that this may have been more the custom in that His day that we suspect.
Joh 19:23 Then when they crucified Jesus, the soldiers took His garments and made four parts, a part to each soldier, also the tunic. And the tunic was seamless, woven from the top throughout.
If you were Europian and not really knowing what a tallit was how would you describe it? A tunic or wrap?
Anyone who has ever priced a large seamless Tallit knows they are very valuble even today and I think that it was no different then.
As for tzitzit I think that is very obvious in this scripture
Mat 9:20 And behold, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came near behind Him, and touched the fringe of His robe.
This is an adequate description of a tzitzit. So I think it becomes obvious that the style of clothing was different at that time than now but that our Lord had surely kept that mitzphot.
Now as for his wearing a kippot I don't see anything in scripture that says that He did or did not. Nor anyone else really. This does not mean that it was not customary nor that it was mearly that the Bible is silent on the issue. Personally I beleive that the style was somewhat different than what we see today. Also Shuals teaching about the propriety in a worship service tends to support that:
1Co 11:7 For truly a man ought not to have the head covered, being the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man;
So this may indicate that the covering of a mans head was not done in that time. Thus no kippot. This letter was to this church in regards to innapropriate style of worship there so thus covering your head would be considered innapropriate in the predenominational church.
Blessings
Pastor George
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaNehemiah_Center said:I want to make sure that I get a good Aramaic translation on this Shlomo
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make honkin huge their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Is that about right?
Pastor George