1. New: Christian Forums Staff Recruit Video.- It's that time of year again. We are having our annual Staff Recruit Drive. Simply ask any staffer to help you apply and enjoy the video...
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What did Jesus wear?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by He put me back together, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. He put me back together

    He put me back together Official Hog washer

    Messages:
    2,816
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Pentecostal
    I'd like to tune this subject on Jesus' garments around the time of his ministry, before the crucifiction. Did Jesus wear clothing that was relevant?
     
  2. BenTsion

    BenTsion Yeshua Worshipper

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Depends on what you call relevant. As far as religion is concerned, I think the only thing worth mentioning is that Yeshua wore tzit-tzit on the border of his clothes, which is commanded by the Torah (it was a symbol that the Israelites were taking upon themselves the Laws of G-d).

    In Messiah,
    Ben Tsion
     
  3. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism
    He most likely also wore Tefillin and a Kippah.
     
  4. P_G

    P_G Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady

    Messages:
    6,747
    Likes Received:
    850
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Messianic
    It has always been my contention that Y'shua wore a tallit openly and that this may have been more the custom in that His day that we suspect.

    Joh 19:23 Then when they crucified Jesus, the soldiers took His garments and made four parts, a part to each soldier, also the tunic. And the tunic was seamless, woven from the top throughout.

    If you were Europian and not really knowing what a tallit was how would you describe it? A tunic or wrap?

    Anyone who has ever priced a large seamless Tallit knows they are very valuble even today and I think that it was no different then.

    As for tzitzit I think that is very obvious in this scripture

    Mat 9:20 And behold, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came near behind Him, and touched the fringe of His robe.

    This is an adequate description of a tzitzit. So I think it becomes obvious that the style of clothing was different at that time than now but that our Lord had surely kept that mitzphot.

    Now as for his wearing a kippot I don't see anything in scripture that says that He did or did not. Nor anyone else really. This does not mean that it was not customary nor that it was mearly that the Bible is silent on the issue. Personally I beleive that the style was somewhat different than what we see today. Also Shuals teaching about the propriety in a worship service tends to support that:

    1Co 11:7 For truly a man ought not to have the head covered, being the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man;

    So this may indicate that the covering of a mans head was not done in that time. Thus no kippot. This letter was to this church in regards to innapropriate style of worship there so thus covering your head would be considered innapropriate in the predenominational church.

    Blessings

    Pastor George :wave:
     
  5. The Thadman

    The Thadman New Member

    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    58
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Pagan
    He probably didn't wear a kippah, as kippot were later inventions of rabbinic tradition, far after Jesus' time. Tefillin were something the Saducees invented (some say 1500 years after the Torah was given to Moses, other say much longer), and not all Jewish sects had adopted them until well after the fall of the temple in 70 (to this day, many sects still do not interpret Exodus 13:9 that way). Jesus commented against how the Chief Priests made theirs honkin' huge in Matthew, yet never talked of them anywhere else (which makes me tend to believe that he didn't think highly of them). He most definitely wore tzitziyot, as the woman with the blood flow reached out and touched them and was healed, and what he wore them on was probably a Tallit, as they were still in style (John the Baptist had one made of Camels' hair, a material that keeps you cool during the day, warm at night, and breathes). He wore sandals, probably Greco-Roman in style, as they were cheap and produced throughout the Roman Empire.

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

    Shlomo,
    -Steve-o
     
  6. The Thadman

    The Thadman New Member

    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    58
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Pagan
    His "garments" were probably his Tallit and sandals, but the Tunic would probably have been akin to a fisherman's tunic, a long single-knit garment that goes down to the knees, tied with a belt. When one was doing work in the hot sun, they'd pull the bottom of the tunic up through their legs and tuck it into their belt, so not to let it get in the way.

    Shlomo,
    -Steve-o
     
  7. P_G

    P_G Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady

    Messages:
    6,747
    Likes Received:
    850
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Messianic
    I want to make sure that I get a good Aramaic translation on this Shlomo

    Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make honkin huge their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,


    Is that about right?

    Pastor George :wave:
     
  8. The Thadman

    The Thadman New Member

    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    58
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Pagan
    It was a paraphrase on my part, not to be taken as litteral scripture :) Sorry for the confusion.

    Shlomo,
    -Steve-o
     
  9. Higher Truth

    Higher Truth New Member

    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Simchat:

    He most likely also wore Tefillin and a Kippah.

    HT:

    Kippah is a late rabbinic addition. He most likely covered His head with a tallit.
     
  10. P_G

    P_G Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady

    Messages:
    6,747
    Likes Received:
    850
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Buuuuuuut Steeeeeeve

    You are our mavin of all things Aramaic
    I have crossed out all my translations and put in "Honkin' Huge"
    Now you tell me it's a paraphrase?

    No wonder everyone laughed at me when I read that from the pulpit! :D


    A Honkin Huge Blessing on you my brother!

    Pastor George :wave:


    PS I am going to try to use the phrase Honkin Huge at least every day
    umm for Lent! There ya go!

    I love it!
     
  11. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism

    Hats were a late rabbinic tradition being added circa 1500 ce. However, the Talmud has many many references to the Kippah, so the tradition at least finds its origins to the first or second century. However we also see a few references to the Kippah in pre-Mishnaic writing as well, and many speculate the Kippah was adopted in part in Jeremiah's day from a previous unknown tradition.

    Covering one's head was not in relation to the mitzvah for the Tzitzit. They have been combined since the invention of the Tallit, but remember, the Tallit is a very modern creation.



    An excerpt from Rabbi Edward Levi Nydle :
    and two more references from the same article:
    As you can clearly see, covering of the head is quite an ancient idea. I will admit, however, that the practice of the Kippah was not established among the commoners until after the destruction of the temple. This was done because no longer was the establishment of the priests... and now the common man made Teshuvah with HaShem.

    Anyway, what does remain true is that the Rabbis, Teachers of the Torah, Priests, etc... all wore some type of a head covering in Y'shua's time.

    shalom,
    yafet
     
  12. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism
  13. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism
    Alfred Edersheim in his book "[Yahshua] the Messiah" on pages 426-431 describes the dress of the time period of the Second Temple. He says, "In regard to the covering of the head, it was deemed a mark of disrespect to walk abroad, or to pass a person, with a bared head. Slaves covered their heads in the presence of their masters..The ordinary covering of the head was the Sudar, a kerchief twisted into a turban..A kind of light hat was also in use, either of a light material or of felt. The Sudar was twisted by rabbis in a peculiar manner to distinguish them from others…We read besides of a sort of a cap or hood attached to some kinds of outer or inner garments…of the outward appearance of [Yeshua]..His headgear would probably be the SUDAR wound in a kind of turban or perhaps the Maaphoreth, which seems to have served as a covering for the head, and to have descended over the back of the kneck and shoulders.." so, here from historical references we can see that Y'shua probably wore some sort of head covering.
     
  14. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism
    More from Rabbi Edward:
     
  15. Higher Truth

    Higher Truth New Member

    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Simchat:

    An excerpt from Rabbi Edward Levi Nydle

    HT:

    Yafet, Yafet, Yafet.....please do not quote this guy as expert testimony.......c'mon
     
  16. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    Messages:
    7,660
    Likes Received:
    401
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Judaism
    I know I know... he's one of the names you have posted on the seekgod.ca website...

    I know nothing of Ed Nydle except that he writes numerous articles for MJAA (an organization that you seem to have respect for). It is a link that I had found a few years back through the MJAA that I found this article, and I know hardly a thing about the guy beyond that.

    However, I'm not here to talk about Ed Nydle. The article could be written by "anonymous" for all I care...

    If you have found fault in what I posted, ignoring the source... then please show us.

    thanks,
    yafet
     
  17. He put me back together

    He put me back together Official Hog washer

    Messages:
    2,816
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Pentecostal
    Alright! Finally some viewpoints on the subject. (Facetious posts are ok, but I'm glad some serious ones are showing up now...heh. I don't know how two of these threads ended up in one forum) Some clarification: By "relevant" I mean anything that would deflect a person from saying "Who cares?" It's more of a maintenance call than an actual question of detail--to keep the thread on the subject of what he wore and perhaps why, rather than "Why did you post this thread anyway?" Course, apparently it failed, but at any rate...thanks for the input. Some nice discussion here.
     
  18. Higher Truth

    Higher Truth New Member

    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Simchat:

    I know I know... he's one of the names you have posted on the seekgod.ca website...

    HT:

    the website www.seekgod.ca is not my website, although I have quoted from it on occasion as well as many others.

    Simchat:

    I know nothing of Ed Nydle except that he writes numerous articles for MJAA

    HT:

    Nydle has no connection with the MJAA, and if I remember correctly, he is not Jewish. he is leadership in YATI with Koniuchowski.
     
  19. He put me back together

    He put me back together Official Hog washer

    Messages:
    2,816
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Pentecostal
    Actually, I think the translation from the Institute for Scripture Research uses the word tzit tzit. Now, whether they were simply leaving the language in tact as they usually do, or whether they were including their own conclusions in scriptural translation is up for clarification.
     
  20. He put me back together

    He put me back together Official Hog washer

    Messages:
    2,816
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Pentecostal
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
     
Loading...