What a long strange trip it's been.

-57

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Why do you keep saying such foolish things? Of course we can trace it back. You are the one that believes a fable. There is no scientific evidence that supports your beliefs. You can't say the same for evolution. There are literally mountains of scientific evidence for evolution and none for creationism. Perhaps you should learn what scientific evidence is.

Here is a pretty picture for you:

mammal_evo.jpg
All you have is a man made chart lining up animals with different traits. Similar charts can be made with extant animals....



Most of what you see in a museum is fossils arranged in an assumed order.
The question becomes, Do fossils really show the transitions between species.
The Wolf like animal evolving to Whale is just one of those exhibits.

The text-books tell us that the Mesonyx is the *PROBABLE* ancestor of all marine mammals. Through the slow gradual process of evolution it become a Cetacean.

The Mesonyx is largely based upon fossils finds that consist mainly of the skull and teeth. From this limited data they determined him to be a wolf like creature.

The theory has it that the Mesonyx hung out by the waters edge perhaps searching for seafood and eventually ended up as a Pakicetus inachuis.

The fossils of the Pakicetus inachuis consist of the posterior portion of the cranium, two fragments of the lower jaw and the isolated upper and lower cheek teeth. Yet he is considered a walking whale! (no limbs were used in this determination just speculative assumption.)

Quite amazingly the scientist, some how, from these few fragments were able to determine that these two creatures were long lost cousins. They determined that the Mesonyx evolved into the sea creature (not yet a whale) named Pakicetus inachuis. By the way, the fossils for Pakicetus were found among land dwelling animals and not sea creatures where they should have been. It appears he was always a land animal and not on his way to whalehood like were being told by the speculative scientist.

Next the text-books tell us a story about about the Ambulocetus natans. Here we have a walking whale. It's all in the name. Ambulo means walking, cetus means whale and natans means swimming. They say he was like a sea lion with features of a seal or otter. The fossils of the legs show that the Ambulocetus natans had a hoof. Now, what is a whale doing with a hoof? Some how a flipper seems more approporiate. Are the scientist applying a biased approach to this species and it's transition? could be,... usually when a hoof is found the animal is considered a land/walking animal.

With respect to Ambulocetus (walking whale) major conclusions have been made about its mode of walking, and about it's tail structure, and yet the inmportant fibula bones, pelvis, and tails bones were not found. (more speculation) Only one tail vertabra was found and it was 5 meters away from the rest of the skeleton. But instead the researchers assumed a long tail for Ambulocetus. Even more disturbing is the fact that fossils of Ambulocetus were found in strata at or above the stratigraphic levels where whale fossils were found.

The Basilosaurus...he's up for interpretation. Evolutionary scientist like to tell us his small hind legs are vestigal. No longer needed, then we learn that they can be used for grasping during mating.

Never the less, basilosaurus was fully aquatic. When you compare the Basilosaurus skeletons with a whale skeleton there is nothing found that qualifies as an intermediate between the basilosaurus and the whale. The only intermediate is the preconceived notion made by evolutionary scientist that basilosaurus was a transitinal.

Other species such as the Prosqualodon and Aetiocetus need a bit more than skulls to qualify them as transitionals. These are just a few examples of scientific illusion given as evidence by evolutionist. There is more to the whale story, but this should be enough to make my point.

Other problems with there wolf to whale theory is in explaining how certain changes took place. Where did their sonar develope from? Where did the huge sperm whale get his oil chamber that keeps him boyant at different depths. The female whale also has muscles in her mammary glands that enable her to squirt the milk into the babies mouth under pressure. The pressure is so high it would squirt milk 6 ft. high if it were out of water. The snout half way evolved to a blow hole would not be very practicle either.

Most of what you see in a museum is fossils arranged in an assumed order.

The question becomes, Do fossils really show the transitions between species.

The Wolf like animal evolving to Whale is just one of those exhibits.
 
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Subduction Zone

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All you have is a man made chart lining up animals with different traits. Similar charts can be made with extant animals....

No, I have much more than that. In such a gross chart the jumps have to be huge. There are thousands of fossils that fill in the steps in between, and they all fit the theory of evolution. Remember that fossils out of order would be deadly for the theory of evolution.

Most of what you see in a museum is fossils arranged in an assumed order.
The question becomes, Do fossils really show the transitions between species.
The Wolf like animal evolving to Whale is just one of those exhibits.

More nonsense that only shows your ignorance. And yes, those fossils do show transition.

The text-books tell us that the Mesonyx is the *PROBABLE* ancestor of all marine mammals. Through the slow gradual process of evolution it become a Cetacean.

Correct. There is no way to tell for certain that a fossil is ancestral. That does not mean that they are not transitional. Transitional and ancestral are not one and the same.

The Mesonyx is largely based upon fossils finds that consist mainly of the skull and teeth. From this limited data they determined him to be a wolf like creature.

Where did you get that idea from? They have found more than just skulls and teeth. This article explain how they know that is had hooves:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesonyx


And you are rather out of date. Due to the shape of some of its teeth is was thought to be possible the ancestor of whales but other details have arisen that nix that idea.



The fossils of the Pakicetus inachuis consist of the posterior portion of the cranium, two fragments of the lower jaw and the isolated upper and lower cheek teeth. Yet he is considered a walking whale! (no limbs were used in this determination just speculative assumption.)

And you are making the common creationist mistake of thinking that only one has been found. More have been found since then. And you made the same mistake with Mesonyx.

Quite amazingly the scientist, some how, from these few fragments were able to determine that these two creatures were long lost cousins. They determined that the Mesonyx evolved into the sea creature (not yet a whale) named Pakicetus inachuis. By the way, the fossils for Pakicetus were found among land dwelling animals and not sea creatures where they should have been. It appears he was always a land animal and not on his way to whalehood like were being told by the speculative scientist.

Next the text-books tell us a story about about the Ambulocetus natans. Here we have a walking whale. It's all in the name. Ambulo means walking, cetus means whale and natans means swimming. They say he was like a sea lion with features of a seal or otter. The fossils of the legs show that the Ambulocetus natans had a hoof. Now, what is a whale doing with a hoof? Some how a flipper seems more approporiate. Are the scientist applying a biased approach to this species and it's transition? could be,... usually when a hoof is found the animal is considered a land/walking animal.

With respect to Ambulocetus (walking whale) major conclusions have been made about its mode of walking, and about it's tail structure, and yet the inmportant fibula bones, pelvis, and tails bones were not found. (more speculation) Only one tail vertabra was found and it was 5 meters away from the rest of the skeleton. But instead the researchers assumed a long tail for Ambulocetus. Even more disturbing is the fact that fossils of Ambulocetus were found in strata at or above the stratigraphic levels where whale fossils were found.

The Basilosaurus...he's up for interpretation. Evolutionary scientist like to tell us his small hind legs are vestigal. No longer needed, then we learn that they can be used for grasping during mating.

Never the less, basilosaurus was fully aquatic. When you compare the Basilosaurus skeletons with a whale skeleton there is nothing found that qualifies as an intermediate between the basilosaurus and the whale. The only intermediate is the preconceived notion made by evolutionary scientist that basilosaurus was a transitinal.

Other species such as the Prosqualodon and Aetiocetus need a bit more than skulls to qualify them as transitionals. These are just a few examples of scientific illusion given as evidence by evolutionist. There is more to the whale story, but this should be enough to make my point.

Other problems with there wolf to whale theory is in explaining how certain changes took place. Where did their sonar develope from? Where did the huge sperm whale get his oil chamber that keeps him boyant at different depths. The female whale also has muscles in her mammary glands that enable her to squirt the milk into the babies mouth under pressure. The pressure is so high it would squirt milk 6 ft. high if it were out of water. The snout half way evolved to a blow hole would not be very practicle either.

Most of what you see in a museum is fossils arranged in an assumed order.

The question becomes, Do fossils really show the transitions between species.

The Wolf like animal evolving to Whale is just one of those exhibits.

That looks like it was mostly a copy and paste from a terribly ignorant and out of date creationist article. By listening to liars and idiots you tend to make yourself look bad. You should always fact check the garbage from creationist sites. They are usually wrong.
 
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46AND2

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The post pointed out how the migration path was very, very unlikely. It showed just how far fetched that particular so-called linage is.

I could take currently extant rodentia and line them up in some sort of increasing sophisticated order....and say YEAH EVOLUTIONISM!!!!

And yet, you would have us believe that animals could migrate across the world in a tiny fraction of the time after the flood, while also having massive amounts of babies in order to repopulate themselves. lol.
 
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-57

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And yet, you would have us believe that animals could migrate across the world in a tiny fraction of the time after the flood, while also having massive amounts of babies in order to repopulate themselves. lol.

The migration routes of post flood animals wasn't like the connect the dots migration routs...line up the species...evo style presented by your bad science.
 
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46AND2

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The migration routes of post flood animals wasn't like the connect the dots migration routs...line up the species...evo style presented by your bad science.

And yet, it remains FAR more preposterous than even your caricature description in this thread.
 
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-57

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And yet, it remains FAR more preposterous than even your caricature description in this thread.

Interesting...you seem to be agreeing with me...if the simple route post flood was impossible....then surely the route presented in the OP...which was much more difficult would have been much more impossible.
You need to think before you post my evo-friend.
 
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46AND2

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Interesting...you seem to be agreeing with me...if the simple route post flood was impossible....then surely the route presented in the OP...which was much more difficult would have been much more impossible.
You need to think before you post my evo-friend.

If it's impossible to walk to San Francisco from Miami, heading west in one week, then surely it's "more impossible" to swim, bike, walk, climb, and skip your way there, going east from Miami, around the world, in 30 years.

That's what your argument is here.
 
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46AND2

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Interesting...you seem to be agreeing with me...if the simple route post flood was impossible....then surely the route presented in the OP...which was much more difficult would have been much more impossible.
You need to think before you post my evo-friend.


What's ironic, though, is that your position DOES imply that you think the evolutionary migration is possible. If your creatures can migrate the same land in a short amount of time, then surely it means that they could also traverse that land more extensively, in a much larger amount of time.
 
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-57

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What's ironic, though, is that your position DOES imply that you think the evolutionary migration is possible. If your creatures can migrate the same land in a short amount of time, then surely it means that they could also traverse that land more extensively, in a much larger amount of time.

When will you show it's possible. You can't. i understand that.
Bottom line...fossils were found and lined up in a form of apparent evolutionism.
 
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TLK Valentine

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The migration routes of post flood animals wasn't like the connect the dots migration routs...line up the species...evo style presented by your bad science.

I suppose your animals miraculously teleported...
 
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46AND2

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When will you show it's possible. You can't. i understand that.
Bottom line...fossils were found and lined up in a form of apparent evolutionism.

You already admitted as much. If "your" animals can migrate in mere thousands of years to all the reaches of the earth, how can you possibly be so incredulous about the migration of "our" animals over many, many, MANY times as many years?
 
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-57

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You already admitted as much. If "your" animals can migrate in mere thousands of years to all the reaches of the earth, how can you possibly be so incredulous about the migration of "our" animals over many, many, MANY times as many years?

The OP was much larger than that...the post showed the great pains the evos had to go through to create their supposed lineage. Basically the just collected fossils from around the world....and lined them up.
 
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46AND2

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The OP was much larger than that...the post showed the great pains the evos had to go through to create their supposed lineage. Basically the just collected fossils from around the world....and lined them up.




Evolution is much larger than that...Even if we had never found a single fossil, we would still know that evolution is true.

Don't get me wrong, though, the fossil evidence is far more than just lining up some bones from around the world...we have even predicted, based on evolution, what layer, in what part of the world, we should go looking to find a fossil with specific features. Then we went out and looked in that layer, in that part of the world, and found exactly what we were looking for.
 
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TLK Valentine

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What is that suppose to mean?

It means what you said... post flood animals didn't migrate in straight lines... meaning they... what? Skipped around?

Are you mocking me? Is that your tactic?

My tactic is to treat anything and anyone seriously who merits it.

Drop the science?

What science have you brought up that you want to drop?
 
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TLK Valentine

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The OP was much larger than that...the post showed the great pains the evos had to go through to create their supposed lineage. Basically the just collected fossils from around the world....and lined them up.

Lined them up chronologically... imagine that.
 
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USincognito

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Evolutionism is a fable.

A. Of course it is. Since it's a phantasm that exists only in the mind of Creationists. Evolution, on the other hand, is very real.

B. Since you've been reduced to insulting garbage posts like this, are we to take it that you've become frustrated because we haven't bowed down before your brilliant take down of evolution?
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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Evolutionary scientist like to tell us his small hind legs are vestigal. No longer needed, then we learn that they can be used for grasping during mating.

Who is "we" and when did "we" learn this?
 
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A. Of course it is. Since it's a phantasm that exists only in the mind of Creationists. Evolution, on the other hand, is very real.

B. Since you've been reduced to insulting garbage posts like this, are we to take it that you've become frustrated because we haven't bowed down before your brilliant take down of evolution?
When you can show me how mutations can add up and form new and novel traits....such as the dolphins echo-location system.....Get back to me.
 
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