We're wrong about the homosexuals in Romans 1

[Questioning Christian]

#1. The main problem here is that that did not glorify Him as God, WHEN THEY KNEW HIM. This isn't talking about unbelievers. It's talking about those who have come to the faith of God and have known God [verse 21].

#2. Homosexuality was the RESULT of their sin, not the CAUSE of the judgment. They changed the glory of God into an image of animals and other creatures, and changed the truth of God to a lie by worshipping and serving the creature more than the creator. Only when they did these things did the homosexuality follow [verse 23 through verse 27].

#3. Because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, THEN God turned them over to a reprobate mind and unto all these other 23 gross sins, none of which is listed as homosexuality.


So what I'm saying is that homosexuality is only the tip of the iceberg for the God-rejecters. But being that we're the 20th century American evangelical church, that's the easiest target, and it's the one that jumps off the page at us.

What y'all think?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.


Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,


Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,


Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[nekotheovercomer]

I don't think you've got it in the right context because I just read it in with the letter in the text and right after that part...pual writes

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

So I think what it's saying is that even though in the begin man walk with God in the garden he betrayed God and has built idols and worshiped other God. They've done all kinds of wrong and endguled in all evils therefore......don't pass judement on others your just as bad......it's discriding man kind and saying we've all screwed up in some way.......the letter goes explaining how jews are no better then gentiles and how all have sined fallen short of the gorly of God and even before that saying we will be judged for all of the things we've done. Later on in the letter it tells us what the sentencing for these evil things is.......but then it tells us of the loop hole and how we can be redeemed. that eniter first chapter is setingit up. Pual wrote letters.....and if you ask me you gotta look at the whole letter.........



that's all I got to say on that

 

[Svt4Him]

Unless you believe in children knowing God. I believe every child has an angel that sees God. Children receive the kingdom of heaven, yet there comes a time they reject that knowledge of God...Hmmm.

 

[YP4JC]

Actually, a more consistent interpretation of Rom. 1 is that these people are indeed unbelievers. The statement that they "knew God," refers to a kind of intuitive knowledge, the whole "everybody has a God shaped hole in their heart," thing. There is something imprinted on the soul of man that cries out to its Creator. It may seem like a very small distinction, but God says,

v. 19 - because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made...so that they are without excuse."

Whenever Paul is referring to Christians in general terms, he always uses we. The fact that he is referring to them, suggests that he is speaking of people outside of God's grace. The ones who "knew God, but did not glorify him as God," are unbelievers who have an intuitive knowledge of the existence of God, who know by nature that God is, but being sinful, they pervert that intuitive knowledge and end up worshiping idols.
Because people perverted the knowledge of God, He GAVE THEM OVER to a depraved mind. One of the manifestations of a depraved mind - homosexuality.
You are right that we over-emphasize the sin of homosexuality. Romans 1 is not a teaching about homosexuality, it is simply mentioned there.

 

[talitha]

My pastor says that homosexuality in a land is a sign of a curse, meaning that it is part of the result of the curse on the land. I tend to agree with that.

 

[lismore]

When the government here brings in something to do with gay rights or with sunday shopping the 'Christian Community' is all up in arms.

When the government brought in abortions here the voice of the 'Christian Community' was nowhere. In the forty years since abortion was legalised and the sin was transformed from a personal sin into a corporate sin, the voice of the 'Christian Community' is nowhere.


God will be interested in our homophobia and Sunday Rituals only when we take an interest in his murdered unborn babies.

 

[JEBrady]

When the government here brings in something to do with gay rights or with sunday shopping the 'Christian Community' is all up in arms.

When the government brought in abortions here the voice of the 'Christian Community' was nowhere. In the forty years since abortion was legalised and the sin was transformed from a personal sin into a corporate sin, the voice of the 'Christian Community' is nowhere.


God will be interested in our homophobia and Sunday Rituals only when we take an interest in his murdered unborn babies.

There's something just so wrong about this. Homosexual behavior is the Biblical representation of a reprobate. Sacrificing your children on the altar of your own personal lust is vile sin. I find it curious to try to minimize the one in the face of the other. It's almost as though you say the one isn't wrong. I don't understand that.

 

[beautyofwisdom]

I'm not an authority on the Bible, so I was wondering if anyone out there has any scripture that determines whether the sin of homosexuality is any greater sin then adultery. I wonder about this, because most of us are aware that adultery is actually mentioned in the commandments.

Would like to hear more about the thought consensus out there

 

[lismore]

There's something just so wrong about this. Homosexual behavior is the Biblical representation of a reprobate. Sacrificing your children on the altar of your own personal lust is vile sin. I find it curious to try to minimize the one in the face of the other. It's almost as though you say the one isn't wrong. I don't understand that.

All sin is wrong and is represenation of the reprobate, but lets stop the murder of innocent babies before we stop people cuddling someone of the same sex. Its harder but perhaps more important.

 

[JimB]

My pastor says that homosexuality in a land is a sign of a curse, meaning that it is part of the result of the curse on the land. I tend to agree with that.

Why single out homosexuality? Do you have a scripture that would say this? Is homosexuality more of an evil or “sign of a curse” than, say, child abuse or murder? If so, why?

~Jim

 

[lismore]

Why single out homosexuality? Do you have a scripture that would say this? Is homosexuality more of an evil or “sign of a curse” than, say, child abuse or murder? If so, why?

~Jim

Bloodthirsty and deceitful come up more in the bible than homosexuality. What about even shedding innocent blood?

Psalm 5:6 NIV
You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.

And yet whenever another war is launched members of the church seem to be in the front row clamoring for blood. Even when the bloodbath is launched based on decietful information.

Psalm 106:38 NIV
They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.

If you look at the number of people killed in the Western world in abortions and in wars this year, what sort of God would ignore this and single out the homosexuals? Homosexuality is wrong, but if thats the worst sin we can find then we aint looking very far.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I'm not an authority on the Bible, so I was wondering if anyone out there has any scripture that determines whether the sin of homosexuality is any greater sin then adultery. I wonder about this, because most of us are aware that adultery is actually mentioned in the commandments.

Would like to hear more about the thought consensus out there

sin is sin is sin is sin. Has nothing to do with which sin it is.

 

[JimB]

I just wish Christians would get as stirred up about Darfur, child abuse, world hunger, injustice and murder as they do about gay rights. I know the unbelieving world sometimes wonders about our priorities and selective rage.

I am told that 120+ Christians are martyred for their faith every day and we don’t hear a peep about it from the Christian right.

~Jim

 

[kidsminister]

I just wish Christians would get as stirred up about Darfur, child abuse, world hunger, injustice and murder as they do about gay rights. I know the unbelieving world sometimes wonders about our priorities and selective rage.

I am told that 120+ Christians are martyred for their faith every day and we don’t hear a peep about it from the Christian right.

~Jim

So true!!! To add to that, God did not tell us "Go in the world and make heterosexuals." The Holy Spirit still works...preach the gospel...make disciples...He'll take care of convicting people of their specific sins, no matter what they are!

 

[JimfromOhio]

There is ONLY one worst sin and everyone should know that.

Homosexuality is equal to murder.
Homosexuality is equal to adultry.

Paul said twice that he was the worst of all sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

We have to be careful how we read Romans Chapter one. This applies to ALL sinners, not just homosexual. Paul was explaining in he wrote in Romans 16:18 "For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people." People can claim to know God when they do NOT. Reading Book of Romans requires context and understanding what Paul is saying.
Book of Romans, a GREAT book of doctrines.
The Whole World is Guilty before God (1:1-3:20)
Justification by Faith in Christ (3:21-5:21)
Sanctification through Union with Christ in His Death & Resurrection (6:1-8:39)
The Problem with Jewish Unbelief (9:1-11:36)

To me, sexual predators to women and children are worst than homosexuals.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Murder is wrong
Homosexual is wrong
adultery is wrong
cheating is wrong
lying is wrong

God treats them all equally.

Proverbs 6:16-20 16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to Him:

(1)haughty eyes,

(2) a lying tongue

(3) hands that shed innocent blood

(4) a heart that devises wicked schemes

(5) feet that are quick to rush into evil

(6) a false witness who pours out lies

The WORST
(7) and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

Proverbs 15:1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Proverbs 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

So true!!! To add to that, God did not tell us "Go in the world and make heterosexuals." The Holy Spirit still works...preach the gospel...make disciples...He'll take care of convicting people of their specific sins, no matter what they are!

LOL

 

[lismore]

sin is sin is sin is sin. Has nothing to do with which sin it is.

Under the law of Leviticus different sins carried different penalties. Murder for example was not treated in the same way as wearing a coat made out of the wrong materials.

 

[lismore]

I just wish Christians would get as stirred up about Darfur, child abuse, world hunger, injustice and murder as they do about gay rights.

Because the gays are ruining marriage, turning Amercia into a Godless society, poisoning the wells, making holes in the ozone layer and removing agricultural topsoil whereas the UK and US governments allowing the murder of CHristians in Darfur, Saudi Arabia etc and allowing Children to starve to death every day, (when enough money is wasted on American casino tables every day to save them all), thats just tough.

 

[JimB]

Because the gays are ruining marriage, turning Amercia into a Godless society, poisoning the wells, making holes in the ozone layer and removing agricultural topsoil whereas the UK and US governments allowing the murder of CHristians in Darfur, Saudi Arabia etc and allowing Children to starve to death every day, (when enough money is wasted on American casino tables every day to save them all), thats just tough.

I had no idea gays were so powerful. Really, Lis, there is more fear (homophobia?) than fact in these assumptions.

Where’s your moral outrage for those sins I mentioned?

~Jim