We Cannot Loose Our Salvation

[Distinguished]

Eternal Security

The bible teaches that once a person is saved they are always saved. It teaches that we cannot lose our salvation. We have been adopted into the family and therefore eternally a part of it. The basic rule of thumb is that if it looks like it is saying that we can lose salvation, it usually is referring to losing reward or fellowship. But let’s first look at the verses that show that we can never lose salvation.

If you are reading the King James, it does not pay close attention to verb tenses, but all the other modern Christian translations do so please cross reference if you are using a King James. And feel free to rebuttal with Scripture. I am aware of many verses that look like it is saying we can lose salvation, but it really is not saying that.

Look at Ephesians 1:13, “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.” So he is talking to Christians. It continues, “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

This verse says that you were sealed with the Holy Spirit when you believed in Christ. Matt. 19:6 says that what God has joined together, man cannot separate. Only God can break his own seals that he seals. And he sealed you with the Holy Spirit for how long?—until the redemption of those who are God’s possession. He sealed you until the day of redemption, that is, until the day he returns via the Rapture. He calls it a deposit until that time, and he says that this deposit he has made is a guarantee that you are a part of the inheritance. The Holy Spirit is God’s guarantee that you cannot lose what he gave you. Look at Romans 8:9 carefully and you’ll see that it gives a parenthetical statement that goes something like this: “…and everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit.” In other words, you cannot be a Christian and lack the Holy Spirit, which is God’s deposit, showing you He saved you until the Day of Redemption.

Paul says the same thing again in Ephesians 4:30, “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed until the day of redemption.”

So what if we are saved today, but do something wrong and lose our salvation tomorrow? Then Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 would be inaccurate because that means that we were not sealed until the day of Redemption. My doing something wrong would have broken the seal of deposit that was a guarantee from God and both of those verses would be false.

Here is anther passage that shows we cannot lose salvation: Romans 8:35-39. Verse 34 shows that he is talking to Christians. So look at vs. 35, “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?” “Or sword” means not even death can separate us from the love of Christ. Skip to verse 38, “For I am convinced that neither death [that includes spiritual death] nor life [that includes anything we do while alive] neither angels nor demons [that means the Devil cannot separate you from the love of Christ] neither the present [no sin I do today can separate me from the love of Christ] nor the future [no sin I might possibly do tomorrow will separate me from the love of Christ] nor any powers, neither height, nor depth, [and in case this verse might have missed something, he says…] nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing in the future can separate you from the love of Christ because you were sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Other verses (and I give short commentary for most of them):
Ephesians 2:8-9, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” Salvation is through faith alone by grace. The definition of grace is God giving you what you do not deserve as opposed to mercy, which means God not giving you what you do deserve. God gave us salvation, what we do not deserve, through faith, and not from our own efforts or merits. It is a gift. Not by works. God does not want anyone to boast of the salvation he gave us for free because he paid too high of a price for our salvation to for us to say that we did anything within ourselves to merit it. He does not want anyone to say, “I am saved because I _________. Because I go to church; because I am a good person; because I love my neighbor; because I _________.” That is what it is to boast of something that you didn’t even do to obtain. God did the work through the finished work on the cross by Jesus Christ. We were saved to do good works, but good works is not what saved us.

Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.” It’s saying the same as above.

Titus 3:5, “he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.” Here is a great verse that shows that it is not by anything at all we did. Salvation does not come because we prayed enough times, or repented enough times. It is not even tied to any sins we commit. It is only because of His mercy that we are saved. Again, mercy is God not giving us what we do deserve, that is hell. God had mercy on us and sent his Son to take our place, the place that was due us. This, not by any righteous deeds of our own.

2 Timothy 1:9, “who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time”

Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” Works actually cancels out grace because grace is free, but if you work for what was free, you are cancelling out the freeness that was inherently free. We still do good works to please God, but not for the purpose of our salvation.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22, “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” This probably needs no commentary because it is just like the Galatians verses above that I already gave commentary to. But again, this is his seal that shows his ownership of us, and no person can break our seal, not even ourselves because it is God’s seal. Our best efforts cannot break God’s seal that he has placed on us. And this verse again says that salvation is a guarantee, just as the Galatians verses state.

2 Corinthians 5:5, “Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” See above, and that makes 4 passages saying the same thing.

1 Peter 1:5, “who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” This too is similar to the above one and the ones in Galatians. If I lose my salvation tomorrow then this verse would be false because it promises that I will be shielded by my faith until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last day.

John 5:24, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” This verse says that by faith we have crossed over from death to life. There is no verse in the bible showing that a person crosses over from eternal life to death. Also, the definition of “eternal life” is “ETERNAL.” If I become saved today and get eternal life today, but do something tomorrow that makes me unsaved, then that means that I never had eternal life because if you lose it, then it is no longer eternal. Eternal life starts the moment you get it, not in the next life. Once you have eternal life, then you have it for an eternity.

John 6:28-29, “Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” Notice the work Jesus mentioned here is singular. There are no works required but this: to believe in Him. They asked what must we do to get saved, and Jesus responds saying, do nothing but believe.

John 6:37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” Note the superlatives “ALL” and “whoever.” Jesus will not drive away anyone who comes. Come as you are and he will not drive you away. He will work to change your life to become more righteous, but that is His work in you. We cannot make ourselves righteous. Only Jesus makes us righteous. We are to just come as we are and we grow unto righteousness.

John 6:39-40, “And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” So if I were to become saved today and do something tomorrow that makes me lose salvation, and then die right after that, this verse would not be true if that is true. This says Jesus will not lose any of all who gets saved.

John 6:51, “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Living forever starts the day you eat. If you eat today, you won’t die tomorrow because of something you do tomorrow. Eternal life starts the moment you obtain it.

John 6:56, “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” Remains in him?

John 10:28-29, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.” They shall never perish. Never means….never. And Eternal means…eternal: the day you obtain eternal life, it is for eternity. And no one can snatch us out of his hands, not the devil and best of all, not even you yourself. Aren’t you included in “no one”?

John 11:26, “…and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” If you really believe this then you will have no fears of losing your salvation. You will know that you are always saved. Jesus says you will NEVER die. So if you believe today, there is nothing you can do tomorrow to lose your salvation, because then the word “never” would be a lie.

Hebrews 6:19-20, “We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” To try to make a long story short: In the Old Testament only the most high priest can enter the most holy place on behalf of the sins of the people, but now Jesus is our new High Priest and He enters the sanctuary behind the curtain where no person can go, and he continually stands as high priest for our sins forever. Whenever we do sin, Jesus is there behind the curtain of the most holy place making atonement for our sins, continually.

Romans 4:5, “However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.” Wow, this verse says we don’t even have to work, but rather we can just trust God, and he credits our works? NO, he credits our faith as righteousness. It is only faith that gets credited as righteousness when it comes to salvation. But when it comes to fellowship with him, then he looks at our works for that; but we are always saved and in the family. He will discipline us if we are not living right, and his discipline can be harsh sometimes, but as far as our eternal salvation is concerned, we are secure.

Romans 4:8, “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.” That’s us who are saved! God will never count our sins against us because that is the whole purpose of the cross. If we could save ourselves by living a righteous life, then Christ would not have had to die on the cross. But since we cannot live up to the standards of a Holy God, God Himself came down to pay the sacrifice for us so that we can have an opportunity to become saved. This is by His righteousness that we are saved, not by our own.

Romans 4:16, “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law (Old Testament Israelites) but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham (us Christians). He is the father of us all.”

 

[Distinguished]

Romans 5:1-2, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.” We have peace with God, not by anything we did, but by the grace God provides to us through faith in Christ. And this is a continual peace.

Romans 6:9-11, “For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he (and we—note the coming verse that says, in the same way credit yourselves) cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.” If I trust Jesus for my salvation, but lose it, technically, Jesus would need to die again because I forfeited the first one. But since I can never lose it, Jesus only had to die once for our sins. Can you give any other meaning to this verse than that? This verse would be saying nothing at all special if that’s not what it is saying. It continues, “The death he died, he died to sin. Once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.” I admit, I put that period after the word “sin” in that verse to make it clearer, but understand that the Greek manuscripts that were originally written for our New Testament were written as uncial which has no punctuation at all, and all the sentences run together. It was the choice of the translator to insert punctuation marks.” It continues, “In the same way (in the same way as above how Jesus only died once then raised to life once) credit yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. “ There is no dying again for us. We are to credit ourselves righteous “in the same way” that Jesus was credited with righteousness and will never die again. By the way, the Christian will never die. We will never get to attend our funeral because we will be alive with Christ in heaven. The bible says, “Absent from the body (dead) is to be present with the Lord (alive).” Our bodies die, but we are not our bodies. And our spirits never die. Our perspective comes from our souls that lie within our bodies.

Galatians 3:11, “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” Live is the opposite of death. Spiritual death in the bible means to be separated from God. We live unto eternal life through faith alone.

2 Peter 1:8-9 (carnal Christian), “For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.” You would have to read the qualities of verses 5-7, but they are works, and this verse says that if you don’t do them, you are blind, but you are still saved because it says that they have forgotten that they have been cleansed from their past sins. They are still cleansed of their sins. They are all works, because verse 5 says, “add to your faith (the following things).” That means whatever follows couldn’t be our faith because we are adding these things to our faith. Note that Love is a work, not required by God for salvation. Love is in the list of works. I know you would throw the verse in 1 John at me, but that is about fellowship with God and has nothing to do with salvation with God. Note this passage says that even if you do not have love, you are still cleansed from your past sins. Even godliness is in this list. So if we do not have godliness, we have still been cleansed from our past sins according to verse 9.

Jude 1, “…To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ.” Note this verse says we are “kept” by Jesus Christ.

Luke 18:26-27, “Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”” Here, Jesus agrees that salvation is impossible for us to attain, but he says that while salvation may be impossible for man, it is not impossible for God to save us. We need to stop trying to attain what is impossible for man to attain when it is God that does the work of salvation for us; He just asks that we believe in the payment of Jesus at the cross that He paid for our sins.

Matthew 19:25-26 (Salvation is by God, not man) This is a repeat of above, except Jesus responds, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” This time Jesus says “this.” Obtaining salvation is the “this.” So replacing the word “this” with what he is referring to, it reads, “Obtaining salvation is impossible for man, but with God all things are possible.” It is impossible for us to live a righteous life for us to become saved. God gives us salvation for free because it is impossible to obtain otherwise. Trying to live a righteous life for salvation is a futile effort. We live righteously for our love for God and because he first loved us. We live it to avoid his wrath, anger and punishment here on Earth. We live it to please our Father in Heaven. But we don’t live it to become saved.

Mark 10:26-27 This is a repeat of the two passages above.

Revelation 22:17, “The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.” Free means, well, free. It is something that we do not have to work for in order to obtain. It is given. You wouldn’t give a birthday present to someone and then charge them to work it off. It is a gift. A gift is something that has no stipulations on it. Salvation is a free gift from God.

Isaiah 55:1-2, “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.” See the verse above this one. Isaiah is one of the most prophetic prophets in the bible and he foresaw the free gift of God through Christ Jesus. I like how it says come buy without money. It is so free that you don’t need money to buy it or obtain it. Only have to believe.

Psalm 32:2, “Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit.” This is a repeat. It was quoted above by Paul in Romans when he was proving that through Christ, your sins are not counted against you.

Psalm 89:30-34, The verses just before these are Messianic verses. But these verses read, “If his (Jesus') sons forsake my law and do not follow my statutes, if they violate my decrees and fail to keep my commands, I will punish their sin with the rod, their iniquity with flogging; but I will not take my love from him, nor will I ever betray my faithfulness. I will not violate my covenant or alter what my lips have uttered.” This passage says that God will discipline you when you disobey him, but he will never take his love for you away. Even when you are unfaithful, this verse says, God is faithful and will never leave or forsake you. Sin for the Christian leads to flogging by God, but not to a loss of salvation. This passage reminds me of 2 Timothy 2:11-13. There it says that if we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, meaning he will always love and keep us. The verses also say that if we deny him, he will deny us, but that means that he will deny us reward and our hearts desires if we deny him glory in public or something like that. He will deny us blessings and discipline us, but he will remain faithful to us even when we are unfaithful to him because he bought us at a high price—the price of his only Son, Jesus Christ. He bought us just like we would by an adopted child. If we were to adopt, we would have to spend money to purchase the child. God paid the price for our sins through the currency of Jesus Christ, and he purchased us permanently into his family.

Jeremiah 23:4, This is also a Messianic passage. This verse reads, “I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing, declares the LORD.” If you read the following 2 verses after this, it speaks of Jesus. So verse 4 promises that none will be missing. Of all who are saved, none will be lost.

The following verses are not as strong at proving eternal security, but I can make an argument through each of them and they give support to all the other verses I quoted above:

1 John 5:13, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” John’s intentions of writing 1 John was to let his audience of Christians know that they are saved by grace. He was not writing so that they would question their salvation, but rather so that they would be reassured of that they are saved. The theme of 1 John is fellowship with God, and not salvation with God. Our fellowship should reassure our eternal relationship with Him as part of the family of Christ.

1 Peter 1:23, “For you have been born again, not of perishable seed [natural birth (egg; sperm); it is perishable because we physically die], but of imperishable (never lose salvation), through the living and enduring word of God.”

1 Corinthians 15:50, "I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable." Flesh and blood is not only referring to our bodies, but also everything that we do in the body. We cannot inherit the kingdom through what our hands and feet do, and what our fleshly brains tell us what to do, but only the spirit us inherits the Kingdom, that is, Jesus purified our spirits (he did not purify our flesh) so our spirits inherit the kingdom through what Jesus did for us not through what we could possibly make our bodies do.

 

[MichaelHelp]

Why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy if once saved always saved?

 

[addo]

Also why does Satan bother sending false teachers into the Church?

 

[miamited]

Hello distinguished.

Good morning and God's blessings upon you. Great post! I'm also a believer in eternal salvation although I may not see it just exactly as you do. The question, that each of us needs to answer for ourselves is not whether or not we believe we are saved, but whether Jesus knows us. Throughout the Scriptures Jesus regularaly used parables that show that there are those among us that he doesn't know. Our own hearts deceive us. We think that because we went down and stood in front of a group of people called 'Christians' that we are saved. Not so! We aren't saved until we are born again. When we are born again, then the Spirit of the living God takes up residency in our body and begins the mighty transforming work of making us believers and children of God.

Many people, listen to great teachers such as Billy Graham, Dwight Moody et.al, and they feel a compulsion of the moment to believe what they are being told and file down to the front of the arena or worship center and say a prayer and go out and continue to live as they always have. Maybe not immediately, but within a short while. All of this is explained in the parable of the sower that there will be some who just immediately turn away and others who believe for a short while, but for whatever reason ultimately turn back.

We do no good service when we encourage people that if they 'gave their life to Christ' at some point in some emotional service that they are saved. No, friend, they are saved only if they have been born of the Spirit of God and Jesus knows them. When we are born of the Spirit of God, there will be changes that are evident. They will not believe as they used to believe about anything spiritual. They will not live as they used to live. They will not talk as they used to talk. There will be an unquenchable joy in their life because they will know, let me repeat, know that they have the indwelling Holy Spirit in their life. The deposit which guarantees their salvation.

These people will believe the word of God as the truth from God without any doubts or reservations because the Spirit of God will have convicted them of such truth. These people will always, in everything, give praise to God because they will have been convicted by the Spirit of God, that He is good and merciful to them even though they have deserved the eternal fire that awaits those who believe as they used to believe. My friend, there is such a peace and comfort that comes from knowing that Jesus knows us and that God has given us His Holy Spirit to guide and instruct us that we just can't help near shouting for joy every moment of our lives because we understand the full implications of what God has done for us.

Now, I know that there are many out there who will say, "Oh, I don't have to believe everything that the Scriptures say regarding God. I mean, after all, it's just a book written by men." Listen, if that's your thinking, then I will testify that you are not filled with the Spirit of God because the Spirit of God testifies to all the things of God. There is no contradiction between the Spirit and the Father as to what is 'truth', or anything else for that matter.

So, I have no argument with 'once saved, always saved'. My question is whether or not those who 'claim' to be saved display the attitude of having God's Spirit directing their lives and whether or not Jesus knows that they are saved. The final chapters of the Revelation make it abundantly clear that it really isn't what our heart or our mind tells us, but rather what Jesus believes.

If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So, before we go giving all kinds of assurances to all kinds of people of their eternal salvation, we would be doing a more godly work to explain to them that it isn't so much what they believe about themselves, but what Jesus believes about them. To show them the external qualities that would 'prove' that Jesus knows who they are. The Scriptures give us several of these 'external' qualities. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said that we will know those who are his by their love for one another. I firmly believe that we will also display the simple law that Jesus explained to the rich young ruler. We will love, let me just repeat that for emphasis, we will LOVE God with all of our heart, with all of our spirit, with all of our mind, with all of our strength. Can anyone really have that kind of love for someone and it is not readily evident in their life?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[Distinguished]

Why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy if once saved always saved?

Salvation is by Faith. Apostasy is the direct opposite of that. Apostasy is to no longer believe, and of course that would cancel out the faith that is required for the salvation. Once saved always saved assumes that you maintain the faith that got you saved. But that is by believing and not by works or effort. My cousin was born into a Christian family and accept Christ as savior and Lord, then he committed Apostasy later in life, IMO, by converting to Jehovah's Witnesses, which he no longer had the faith that he needs.

 

[Distinguished]

Also why does Satan bother sending false teachers into the Church?

False teachers includes Jehovah's Witnesses, which can create apostasy and see my above post about that.

Also false teacher can corrupt doctrine, but that does not make a person lose salvation depending on what doctrines we are talking about, it just makes Christians not understand God's word fully, and Satan loves doing that to churches so that they won't be as effective.

 

[Distinguished]

Hello distinguished.

The question, that each of us needs to answer for ourselves is not whether or not we believe we are saved, but whether Jesus knows us.

So, I have no argument with 'once saved, always saved'. My question is whether or not those who 'claim' to be saved display the attitude of having God's Spirit directing their lives and whether or not Jesus knows that they are saved. The final chapters of the Revelation make it abundantly clear that it really isn't what our heart or our mind tells us, but rather what Jesus believes.

If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So, before we go giving all kinds of assurances to all kinds of people of their eternal salvation, we would be doing a more godly work to explain to them that it isn't so much what they believe about themselves, but what Jesus believes about them. To show them the external qualities that would 'prove' that Jesus knows who they are. The Scriptures give us several of these 'external' qualities. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said that we will know those who are his by their love for one another. I firmly believe that we will also display the simple law that Jesus explained to the rich young ruler. We will love, let me just repeat that for emphasis, we will LOVE God with all of our heart, with all of our spirit, with all of our mind, with all of our strength. Can anyone really have that kind of love for someone and it is not readily evident in their life?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

You have a great post too Ted. But there are just a few things in there that I want to show needs some tinkering to be completely correct. I deleted out what I completely agree with you on and would like to expound on what I quoted here. I don't have time to tackle everything right now because there are more scriptures to quote, but I'll pick up from this post when I continue.

I will say here to keep in mind that there is a true fellowship with God where we are fired up about worshipping God because the Holy Spirit fills us and God has worked in our lives to make us live righteously. And then there is the lack of that fellowship where although someone is saved, they have not yet changed their life to reflect the new identity in Christ that God gave them the moment they became saved. Jesus works on those people by giving them trials and afflictions to get them to turn to him and see that they need to submit to him and trust him. Then Jesus works on them more, growing them until they too become filled with the Holy Spirit and completely commit their lives to Him. But both are saved. The one in total fellowship and the newbie Christian or the rebellious Christian are all saved. The rebellious Christian will receive many trials, but that is God disciplining them to make them turn back to Him.

I'll come back later to address the passages you alluded to above. God bless.

 

[MichaelHelp]

Salvation is by Faith. Apostasy is the direct opposite of that. Apostasy is to no longer believe, and of course that would cancel out the faith that is required for the salvation. Once saved always saved assumes that you maintain the faith that got you saved. But that is by believing and not by works or effort. My cousin was born into a Christian family and accept Christ as savior and Lord, then he committed Apostasy later in life, IMO, by converting to Jehovah's Witnesses, which he no longer had the faith that he needs.

So then that would mean...

Once saved always saved*
*not always saved

right? or am I looking into it too much?

 

[Distinguished]

So then that would mean...

Once saved always saved*
*not always saved

right? or am I looking into it too much?

You are always saved if you rely on faith in Christ for your salvation.

Apostasy is to reject the Holy Spirit, which basically means to reject Christ all together and everything He did at the cross. Apostasy is to turn away from faith to a different religion, and that is not saving faith. But if you rely on faith alone in Jesus Christ, then you are always in the family.

 

[miamited]

Hi Distinguished,

I look forward to your further explanation. You wrote:

I will say here to keep in mind that there is a true fellowship with God where we are fired up about worshipping God because the Holy Spirit fills us and God has worked in our lives to make us live righteously. And then there is the lack of that fellowship where although someone is saved, they have not yet changed their life to reflect the new identity in Christ that God gave them the moment they became saved. Jesus works on those people by giving them trials and afflictions to get them to turn to him and see that they need to submit to him and trust him. Then Jesus works on them more, growing them until they too become filled with the Holy Spirit and completely commit their lives to Him. But both are saved. The one in total fellowship and the newbie Christian or the rebellious Christian are all saved. The rebellious Christian will receive many trials, but that is God disciplining them to make them turn back to Him.

I'm anxious when you write back to see the Scriptural references you have to back all of that up. Before you do, though, I'd really encourage you to read the parable of the sower and ask yourself who all those other people are that are mentioned before the sower sows the good seed on the good soil.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

Hi Distinguished,

Sorry to bother you again, but you write about your cousin thusly:

Once saved always saved assumes that you maintain the faith that got you saved.

Was he saved when he was living in his good Christian family and gave his life to the Lord?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[Distinguished]

Hi Distinguished,

Sorry to bother you again, but you write about your cousin thusly:

Once saved always saved assumes that you maintain the faith that got you saved.

Was he saved when he was living in his good Christian family and gave his life to the Lord?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

Hello Miamited. It's okay. Yes, I do believe that my cousin who is now a Jehovah's Witness was saved when he was a Christian being raised by his Christian family, but is no longer saved.

Apostasy is the only exception to not losing salvation because by no longer having faith in Christ, you have chosen to come out of the family. Faith in Christ (the real Christ) keeps us saved regardless of what we do or don't do. Since salvation is by faith, that is what we must keep to be saved.

I'll answer your other post with scriptures tomorrow. God bless.

 

[miamited]

Hello Distinguished,

I imagine that you probably don't see the inconsistency of your argument, so I'll let it go. I look forward to your further explanation.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[Distinguished]

Hi Distinguished,

I look forward to your further explanation. You wrote:

I will say here to keep in mind that there is a true fellowship with God where we are fired up about worshipping God because the Holy Spirit fills us and God has worked in our lives to make us live righteously. And then there is the lack of that fellowship where although someone is saved, they have not yet changed their life to reflect the new identity in Christ that God gave them the moment they became saved. Jesus works on those people by giving them trials and afflictions to get them to turn to him and see that they need to submit to him and trust him. Then Jesus works on them more, growing them until they too become filled with the Holy Spirit and completely commit their lives to Him. But both are saved. The one in total fellowship and the newbie Christian or the rebellious Christian are all saved. The rebellious Christian will receive many trials, but that is God disciplining them to make them turn back to Him.

I'm anxious when you write back to see the Scriptural references you have to back all of that up. Before you do, though, I'd really encourage you to read the parable of the sower and ask yourself who all those other people are that are mentioned before the sower sows the good seed on the good soil.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Here are 2 verses you used to explain your point that being saved is somehow tied to how we live this life:[/font]
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Also, you wanted me to elaborate on my points about the paragraph you quoted me on. These are two different points and I would like to start by addressing the verses you quoted then I’ll address the paragraph you quoted me on.

To address the verses you quoted here, I have to point out the time frame of God’s dealings with mankind. Some call this God’s dispensations with man. Today we are in the day of grace, also known as the church age, but if we go back to the beginning, it starts with the age of innocence with Adam and Eve in the garden. Then there is the age of sin and the law. There are different ways the rest is broken down, but I’ll give the abridged version. Then after the law of Moses is the church age which started in Acts. We are in the day of grace, and the next stage is the rapture, tribulation, Millennium, Great White Throne judgment, eternity.
The first verse you quote is Rev. 20:15. This passage starts with Rev. 20:11, “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. (vs.12) And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened."

The question on the floor is “where are the Christians during this judgment?” This is not the Christians judgment. It says the dead are judged. Throughout the New Testament, Christians are not referred to as dead, but alive in Christ Jesus.

This judgment does not describe the Christian’s judgment. A Christian’s judgment is not concerning whether or not a person is saved, but it is about what rewards Christians get for their deeds done on Earth. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 describes the Christian’s judgment. The Christian’s judgment takes place just after the Rapture.

John sees the Rapture in Revelation 4:1-3. There it reads, “After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven.” So heaven opens up here. It continues, “And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” And then the next verse shows that John was in heaven. John here represents the Church. “Come up here” is the Rapture of the Church to Heaven. Need proof? Look at John 21:22-23, “Jesus answered, “If I want him (John) to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”’

What was Jesus saying? Jesus did not return before John dies. No, but Jesus let John see his future return in a vision before John dies. That vision is Revelation 4:1-3.

Back to Revelation 20. Notice in verse 12 there are “books” plural, and in verse 13 there is the book of life. It says that the dead are judged according to what they had done in the “books” plural. The “books” are the book of deeds, and God is going to judge all these unsaved people based on these books to determine their amount of punishment in hell. But he is then going to open the book of life to show everyone there that their names are not in there. It will probably be in alphabetical order and their names will be missing from the particular place they would be at. Notice how many times this passage says, “dead.” Those who are alive are not here. This takes place just before God creates the New Earth, and just after the Millennium.

Your second verse is Rev. 21:27. Now this verse does reveal a lot about the Kingdom of heaven. A careful read of all of Rev 21 reveals a lot about the Kingdom of Heaven. Let me first say that the Kingdom of Heaven is not all of heaven. It is like saying the capital of the United States. The capital of the US is not all of the US; it is only a part of the US. The Kingdom of heaven refers to the capital city of heaven, which is the city New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:2). It is called “the Holy City.” It is possible for a person to be saved and in heaven, but not able to enter the Holy City because of how they lived on Earth. Please note a few things about this holy City. Note that there are 12 gates (Rev. 21:12). And note that Rev. 21:25 says that the gates will never be closed. But note that Rev. 21:12 says that there will be 12 angels stationed at each gate. Although the gates will never be closed, these angels will be stationed here to guard who goes in and out of them. Note that some people do go in and out of these gates. It says that the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it (the gates) (Rev. 21:24). Then the kings go back out and they provide light for the nations that are outside of the holy city. Sort of like a glow in the dark toy that has to go to the light in order to be brightened and able to go into the dark to provide light in darkness. Kings of the earth will be the light for the people, but they will have to go to the holy city where Jesus, the true light is so that they can regain their light. So some will be able to go in and out of the city. But Rev. 21:27 says, “Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.” Since in the day of Grace, all who believe in Jesus for their Savior become pure because God puts on us Jesus’ righteousness, then all who are saved in the day of Grace will be pure and able to enter the Holy City that is guarded by these 12 angels. But there will also be those who are saved during the tribulation period after the day of Grace when salvation was free. These people, it will be based on their works and faith whether or not they can enter this holy city. Only the Overcomers will be able to enter it. But that refers only to those who get saved during the Tribulation period.

This is reminiscent of the garden of Eden when an angel stood at the gate with a flaming sword guarding it and keeping Adam and Eve from entering it. So it will be again that angels guard this new holy city Jerusalem on the New earth.

To try to explain my paragraph you quote, I think that I should point out that there are carnal saved Christians. That is, there are Christians who are living in sin, not pleasing to God, and yet they are saved. Although the Holy Spirit is in all Christians, not all Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit. When one is filled with the Holy Spirit they are on fire for God.

About carnal Christians: It is too much to quote each of these verses so I’ll just give them to you. These are all the verses that show that there are carnal Christians who are saved, but living in sin. They are the following: 1 Cor. 3:2-3, 1 John 2:1-2, Matthew 21:31, Romans 4:5, Matt. 22:10, 2 Peter 1:9, 1 Cor. 3:15, Galatians 4:9, 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Cor. 5:3-4, James 1:6-8, Hebrews 3:12, and Psalm 89:30-34. There are 2 other verses that don’t prove it as strongly so I’ll leave those off.

 

[Jig]

Though no one can pluck us out of His hand, I do believe we have a choice to renounce the free gift we once accepted. I view this as rare and improbable, but not impossible.

I do not like the question, "Can we lose our salvation?" We are not talking about keys or the television remote here. It should be rephrased, "Can we forfeit our salvation?"

 

[YinandYang]

I would like to share my beliefs on the question of whether or not one is once saved always saved. I am a believer in Catholic theology and thus am against the notion proposed by certain Protestants these days of eternal security. The Church teaches us that it is actually a sin to presume that one is guaranteed heaven no matter how one lives the rest of his/her life. As Catholics we believe that a person can in fact lose their salvation by commiting what is called mortal sin. Let me start out by quoting some verses of Sacred Scripture that teach us that we can, in fact, lose our salvation:

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
Galatians 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
Galatians 5:21 occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3 Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones,
Ephesians 5:4 no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving.
Ephesians 5:5 Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry.
Colossians 3:6 Because of these the wrath of God is coming (upon the disobedient).

1 Corinthians 9:27 No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore, I tell you that nobody speaking by the spirit of God says, "Jesus be accursed." And no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the holy Spirit.

In unison with:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Revelation 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.

In 1 John 5:16-17 we see that there is sin which is spiritually deadly and sin which is not spiritually deadly, thus teaching us the existance of mortal and venial sin.

In Galatians, Ephesians, and Colossians we see that there are certain sins which cause those who commit them to not be allowed to enter into the kingdom of God and which also cause the wrath of God to come upon those practicing such evil behavior.

In 1 Corinthians 9:27 we see Saint Paul explaining to us that the reason he continues to push himself to remain in God's grace is so that he would not be disqualified from heaven after having preached the truth to others.

In 1 Corinthians 12:3, in unison with Matthew 7:21, we see that no one can call Jesus Lord except those who have the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) but not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter into heaven (Matthew 7:21). Thus not everyone who has the Holy Spirit will be allowed into heaven. This shows us that someone who has the Holy Spirit can in fact lose his/her salvation and the Holy Spirit by commiting mortal sin.

In Revelation 22:19 we see that anyone who removes words from this book shall have their name removed from the Book of Life and from his/her share in the Tree of Life. This also shows that a person can lose their salvation by commitiing mortal sin.

There are more Biblical verses that could be added to this list, but these should suffice for now.

Now let me quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a more concrete explanation of mortal and venial sin:

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

IV. The Gravity of Sin: Mortal and Venial Sin

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. the distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery.... But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. the promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God; it does not break the covenant with God. With God's grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call "light": if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135

1864 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

129 Cf. 1 ⇒ Jn 16-17.
130 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 88, 2, corp. art.
131 RP 17 # 12.
132⇒ Mk 10:19.
133 Cf. ⇒ Mk 3:5-6; ⇒ Lk 16:19-31.
134 John Paul II, RP 17 # 9.
135 St. Augustine, In ep. Jo. 1, 6: PL 35, 1982.
136⇒ Mk 3:29; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:32; ⇒ Lk 12:10.
137 Cf. John Paul II, DeV 46.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6C.HTM

(Continued in next thread)

 

[YinandYang]

(Continued from previous thread)

I would also like to quote from the Catechism with regards to how we obtain salvation:

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

GOD'S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE

1949 Called to beatitude but wounded by sin, man stands in need of salvation from God. Divine help comes to him in Christ through the law that guides him and the grace that sustains him:

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.1

1 ⇒ Phil 2:12-13.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

I. Justification

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

(God) gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature.... For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42

1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God's love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

34 ⇒ Rom 3:22; cf. ⇒ 6:3-4.
35 ⇒ Rom 6:8-11.
36 Cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 12; ⇒ Jn 15:1 4.
37 St. Athanasius, Ep. Serap. 1, 24: PG 26, 585 and 588.
38 ⇒ Mt 4:17.
39 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1528.
40 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.
41 ⇒ Rom 3:21-26.
42 Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.
43 St. Augustine, In Jo. ev. 72, 3: PL 35, 1823.

IV. The Sacraments of Salvation

1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.51 "Sacramental grace" is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. the Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. the fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.

51 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1604.
52 Cf. ⇒ 2 Pet 1:4.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

"Teacher, what must I do . . .?"

2052 "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" To the young man who asked this question, Jesus answers first by invoking the necessity to recognize God as the "One there is who is good," as the supreme Good and the source of all good. Then Jesus tells him: "If you would enter life, keep the commandments." and he cites for his questioner the precepts that concern love of neighbor: "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother." Finally Jesus sums up these commandments positively: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."1

2053 To this first reply Jesus adds a second: "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."2 This reply does not do away with the first: following Jesus Christ involves keeping the Commandments. the Law has not been abolished,3 but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment. In the three synoptic Gospels, Jesus' call to the rich young man to follow him, in the obedience of a disciple and in the observance of the Commandments, is joined to the call to poverty and chastity.4 The evangelical counsels are inseparable from the Commandments.

1 ⇒ Mt 19:16-19.
2 ⇒ Mt 19:21.
3 Cf. ⇒ Mt 5:17.
4 Cf. ⇒ Mt 19:6-12, ⇒ 21, ⇒ 23-29.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

I hope that helps.

May God bless you and Mary keep you in her prayers always.

YinandYang

 

[Verticordious]

The idea that a saved person can become unsaved is built on a faulty understanding of what salvation is in the first place. Salvation is not about being good enough, and thus it is not a measure of one's performance throughout life. There are not times where one's performance rises above or falls below some point, resulting in a person fluctuating between a saved and unsaved state.

Salvation is about a willingness to obey God. There are thus only two options, either you are or you aren't willing. Being willing to obey God means that you completely submit yourself to him unconditionally. You cannot say "God I am willing to obey as long as you fulfill X conditions for me". The covenant is simple, eternal life for unconditional submission. Thus if a person who claimed to be willing to obey God unconditionally ever became unwilling to obey God, it would prove they were never completely willing in the first place. To withdrawn your unconditional obedience proves that it was never really unconditional in the first place, and thus that you were never saved.

The problem is that people do not understand what it means to be saved in the first place. In some churches it seems that anyone who walks in the door is automatically declared to be saved. In others, all it takes is reciting a prayer, or getting baptized. The point of salvation is when someone makes the decision to unconditionally obey God. It is easy for someone to fool other people, and even themselves, in to thinking that their brief period of being "on fire" for God means they're saved, but that's not necessarily true. Obedience to God is an all or nothing deal, so becoming disobedient at any time proves you were never saved in the first place.

 

[Distinguished]

Obedience to God is an all or nothing deal, so becoming disobedient at any time proves you were never saved in the first place.

So, if I were to sin tomorrow then that means that I was never saved in the first place?