We are getting too tolerant.....

[CryoftheNation]

The world may never know.

There certainly are some people in this forum who make it a point to tell us how "Spiritually mature" they are, but I don't buy it. When one is truly Spiritually mature, they don't run around saying "I'm Spiritually mature!". That would be the equivalent of me waking up every morning and screaming "I'm an adult!"

Spiritual maturity is something that is demonstrated. Any time someone tries to "tell" me they're more Spiritually mature than _______, it throws up a HUGE red flag.

Bottom line. If you're Spiritually mature, people will know it, not because you had to tell them, but because you act like it.

True!!

 

[ARBITER01]

Here's the quote by me,..

Rather than calling people a bunch of names, did you ever think that there may be a difference in spiritual maturity between folks here? Did you ever think that maybe you are lacking this maturity in areas that folks have already?

What one person tolerates maybe another will not because their walk is closer to Jesus than the folks who hold Him at a long distance relationship.

Now,... I never referenced myself in this, I only pointed out some truth here, yet people are somehow feeling belittled by this quote as if I uplifted myself in this over anyone?!?

The truth of the fact is this, each of us will have a different spiritual maturity as we are being sanctified and drawing closer to GOD. Those that hold HIM at a distance and place things in between HIM and them will have their growth suffer substantially whereas the person that seeks HIM with their whole heart and makes considerable effort towards drawing near HIM everday will have greater insights and revelation into things that the other person drowning in his/her "personal things" will completely miss out on.

Now if people are feeling a bit convicted over this, it is up to them to do something about it, or just continue to rant and rave and throw a tantrum over their situation while others grow past them.

Time stands still for no one, and if you refuse to make any effort in your relationship with GOD, it is you that has yourself to blame. GOD is not going to do that part for you.

 

[CryoftheNation]

Here's the quote by me,..

Now,... I never referenced myself in this, I only pointed out some truth here, yet people are somehow feeling belittled by this quote as if I uplifted myself in this over anyone?!?

The truth of the fact is this, each of us will have a different spiritual maturity as we are being sanctified and drawing closer to GOD. Those that hold HIM at a distance and place things in between HIM and them will have their growth suffer substantially whereas the person that seeks HIM with their whole heart and makes considerable effort towards drawing near HIM everday will have greater insights and revelation into things that the other person drowning in his/her "personal things" will completely miss out on.

Now if people are feeling a bit convicted over this, it is up to them to do something about it, or just continue to rant and rave and throw a tantrum over their situation while others grow past them.

Time stands still for no one, and if you refuse to make any effort in your relationship with GOD, it is you that has yourself to blame. GOD is not going to do that part for you.

The problem was not with what you said so much as the implication. Whenever this kind of thing is trotted out it is as an implication that those who don't agree are somewhat less mature than the poster. It also gives the impression that I have previously stated that you think higher of yourself than maybe you really do. Please try to clarify rather than put out short posts which can easily be misinterpreted.

I don't think anyone is feeling convicted by this at all. Just frustrated at the continuous allegations of how much further we are from God or how we haven't heard from God over this or comments like "sheep" etc.

God bless

Simon

 

[ARBITER01]

The problem was not with what you said so much as the implication. Whenever this kind of thing is trotted out it is as an implication that those who don't agree are somewhat less mature than the poster. It also gives the impression that I have previously stated that you think higher of yourself than maybe you really do. Please try to clarify rather than put out short posts which can easily be misinterpreted.

I don't think anyone is feeling convicted by this at all. Just frustrated at the continuous allegations of how much further we are from God or how we haven't heard from God over this or comments like "sheep" etc.

God bless

Simon

But you see, that is your problem, not mine.

I'm not about to allow you to impose any sort of personal control over what I say or how I state myself, or some sort of personal human conviction from you towards me if it is not by The Holy Spirit.

You can want, even demand, but that doesn't mean anything will happen if GOD don't move me inside. You will absolutely get no where with me over it.

 

[SUNSTONE]

We are way too tolerant.

I see smokers outside of church and I just want to kick them in the seat of their pants and say "What is wrong with you!?? There are kids walking around here, and that has to be one of the dumbest sins ever!"

I really hate it when I see an obesse pastor, the spirit of slap comes all over me.
I feel like walking up to them, slapping them in the face and saying "What is wrong with you??!! And don't give me that 'oh it's the culture' nonsense. Sin is sin, and you are a glutton and a sloth. Here take this hand gun and shoot yourself, it'll be less painful and a lot quicker than this self torture you are putting yourself through."

 

[SUNSTONE]

I also hate it when people say "Don't judge.." blah blah blah.
It has to be the most qouted verse ever.
And the only people that say it are sinners.

I always reply "You know the guy who wrote that, also kicked a guy out of church for marrying his mother in law."

 

[imperfectchristian]

I also hate it when people say "Don't judge.." blah blah blah.
It has to be the most qouted verse ever.
And the only people that say it are sinners.

I always reply "You know the guy who wrote that, also kicked a guy out of church for marrying his mother in law."

I know what you mean...what really gets me is the overwhelming number of preachers and church members that go around telling people "Sin separates you from God!" and everyone of them has sinned that very day by failing to be Christ like yet they think the rules don't apply to them...that somehow God overlooks their sins.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Apart from talking about hirelings, hypocrits, being drunk in the blood of the saints, and the harlot church,... let's get back to the subject,...




Sanctification is a very overlooked aspect of leadership in the body of Christ. It follows our justification, but there are people who think that their "self-life" was placed on that cross with their sin also, and scripture never depicts that.

Our standards need to be raised, and there is only one listed in the bible, the one that Jesus gave us, and no one is going to attain it if they refuse to put the work into being sanctified.

Over the years, I have learned to understand the true nature of the Christian life which is unpredictable and expanding called "sanctification". You are saved when the Holy Spirit convicting YOU to repent and help you change your ways (not of your own). If you didn't feel the conviction and didn't have the motivation to change from "within", then you will know that you are not saved. A Christian can have a truly struggling with his/he sins and God is working in him/her.

 

[SUNSTONE]

I don't think it's a sin to tell someone that sin seperates them from God.
I think it's a sin to not say something and just let them slowly kill themselves.

 

[JimfromOhio]

i think it's not so much that we are tollerant, but that having seen a lack of holiness and personal responsibility both here on the forum and on a national level, we are disillusioned from viewing man and his failings for too long a time.

We are forgetting that our eyes should be on God. if we keep our eyes on Him and if our first concern is how to please Him, THEN we will know better how to treat our fellow Christians.

but if our main concern is the beam in our brother's eye, then we have taken our focus off of God, put our trust in our own wisdom, and our feet are in grave danger of following after where our eye is focused.

A Christian disciple must understand that God is both holy and loving; that we are sinners and are made in the image of God; that Christ's death was the substitute payment for our sin; and that because of Jesus' payment, we are granted access to the heart of God.

As Christians, with the help from the Holy Spirit, we have the understanding of what pleases God; our thoughts, our desires, our affections that are transformed in over time. Christianity is radical because we change from old nature to the new nature, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of God that created us. From our old creature, we learned worldly desires and causing us to think more worldly. Our selfish desire for happiness and getting what we WANT are really more worldly than spiritually. It is interesting that people talks of faith in relation to "getting what you want".

As for treating other Christians, there are differences in discernment and judgement regarding "practice what we believe (preach)" and understanding the results of suffering. This is double standard. We have many people who think like Job's friends. Every statement of Job's friends was TRUE and their reasoning was impeccable. They said that God punishes sinners and they were right. Many people don't want be like Job because they disagree with the doctrine of suffering. They missed the whole point of Job's sufferings, just as most people do, today based on "man's doctrines".

Ever wondered why threads about Job were busy, this is why.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I don't think it's a sin to tell someone that sin seperates them from God.
I think it's a sin to not say something and just let them slowly kill themselves.

If it is done because their is genuine care for the persons well being then yes I agree...we should definitely say something, but if it is done to make a person feel like they are separated from God because they do not follow our moral standards then I have a problem with it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

There's just so much sin consciousness (which the Bible calls an "evil conscience") and self-appointed church policemen in this forum. And betw the 2, the latter stinks more.

When a Christian who is saved by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, this Christian is living in a new Creature with holy conscience rather than sinful conscience. Our hearts are the source of our emotions, thoughts and motives. Our hearts are the place of conscience. Our hearts are the part of our beings where we desire, deliberate, and decide.

Self-appointed is so similar to Pharisees. When we are talking about leaders who do things secretly while preaching, Pharisees are great examples. The new creature in Spirit within us as for example Jesus likened the religious Pharisees to a group of dishwashers who clean the outside of a cup while leaving the inside dirty. He said, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?" (Luke 11:39-40). Jesus knew that a person can change his image without changing his act (Matthew 23:1-3). The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

 

[JimfromOhio]

The world may never know.

There certainly are some people in this forum who make it a point to tell us how "Spiritually mature" they are, but I don't buy it. When one is truly Spiritually mature, they don't run around saying "I'm Spiritually mature!". That would be the equivalent of me waking up every morning and screaming "I'm an adult!"

Spiritual maturity is something that is demonstrated. Any time someone tries to "tell" me they're more Spiritually mature than _______, it throws up a HUGE red flag.

Bottom line. If you're Spiritually mature, people will know it, not because you had to tell them, but because you act like it.

A good Christian will try to act like a mature believer but is really a child at heart because his/her life revolves around "what is good for me." When that happens, a Christian fails to accept responsibility of Christ's Commandments for the maturity of others in the church. Christian leaders are to look after the spiritual welfare of God's Word, to make sure no overseers are wolves in sheep’s clothing, and to disciple those less mature or disadvantaged as they grow in Christ.

Talking about maturity, I like this quote:
The mature disciple will not stumble because of apparently unanswered prayer. He will not, however, adopt a fatalistic attitude; he will examine his prayers and seek to discover the cause of failure" J.Oswald Sanders, Guidelines for Disciples, pg 124-125

 

[lismore]

EACH of us are responsible to discipline not only our own lives but also the lives of those around us including our spiritual leaders.

Hello There

I dont know how to discipline a Christian leader. If you mean the American telethon evangelists, the best I could do is throw peanuts at the TV screen.

If you mean modern day pastors, many I have met do not listen to mere plebs.

The only people we can discipline are ourselves methinks.

Jesus said: Matthew 23:10 NIV
Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.

One teacher, one leader, one Lord.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Hello There

I dont know how to discipline a Christian leader. If you mean the American telethon evangelists, the best I could do is throw peanuts at the TV screen.

If you mean modern day pastors, many I have met do not listen to mere plebs.

The only people we can discipline are ourselves methinks.

Independent, Christian Organizations, Churches and Mega-churches of our day (examples: non-denominational, Word of Faith and others) are rarely governed in the way elders have oversight (Acts 20:28; I Pet. 5:2-3) and lack of accountability and responsibility to rule their organization/congregation (I Tim. 3:5; 5:17; I Thes. 5:12; Heb. 13:7, 17, 24). Spiritual leaders have the freedom to abuse their powers.

 

[lismore]

Independent, Christian Organizations, Churches and Mega-churches of our day (examples: non-denominational, Word of Faith and others) are rarely governed in the way elders have oversight (Acts 20:28; I Pet. 5:2-3) and lack of accountability and responsibility to rule their organization/congregation (I Tim. 3:5; 5:17; I Thes. 5:12; Heb. 13:7, 17, 24). Spiritual leaders have the freedom to abuse their powers.

Yes that is sometimes true. But what can we do about it? We are all sinners. The only person everyone will be accountable is to God. But based on what Jesus said to the pharisees, God looks on corrupt or hypocritical religious leaders as being the lowest of the low. Hypocrisy is the main thing to avoid IMO.

God Bless You

 

[charityagape]

We are way too tolerant.

I see smokers outside of church and I just want to kick them in the seat of their pants and say "What is wrong with you!?? There are kids walking around here, and that has to be one of the dumbest sins ever!"

I really hate it when I see an obesse pastor, the spirit of slap comes all over me.
I feel like walking up to them, slapping them in the face and saying "What is wrong with you??!! And don't give me that 'oh it's the culture' nonsense. Sin is sin, and you are a glutton and a sloth. Here take this hand gun and shoot yourself, it'll be less painful and a lot quicker than this self torture you are putting yourself through."

 

[tkoman]

I really hate it when I see an obesse pastor, the spirit of slap comes all over me.

"I cast you out, you vile spirit of slap..."

 

[SUNSTONE]

If it is done because their is genuine care for the persons well being then yes I agree...we should definitely say something, but if it is done to make a person feel like they are separated from God because they do not follow our moral standards then I have a problem with it.

If we draw closer to God, He will draw closer to us. Is that in Timothy?

The bible also talks about how some people hate wisdom and knowledge, in proverbs.

 

[where_eagles_dare]

Smoking is a sin?

I must have missed that passage in the old family bible.