Was E Jean Carroll raped by D J Trump?

[stevil]

It seems there is some debate as to whether D J Trump raped E Jean Carroll or not.

Facts:

• D J Trump was never found guilty in criminal court of raping or sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll.
  E Jean Carrol did not make her claim of being raped until after the statute of limitations expired and so Trump could not be criminally charged.
• D J Trump was found liable of sexual assault of E Jean Carroll in a NY Court
  NY laws determine that rape must require penetration by male genitallia
• D J Trump failed in court to sue E Jean Carroll for defamation when she publicly claimed he raped her
  The Federal Judge Lewis Kaplan, ruled that the jury verdict showed Carroll's rape allegation was "substantially true" and dismissed the counterclaim
• General definitions of rape are not restricted to penetration by male genitallia, but can include fingers or objects
  Wikipedia Rape: Rape is a type of sexual assault involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration carried out against a person without their consent.
  

  Rape in the United States - Wikipedia

  en.wikipedia.org
  Rape in the United States is defined by the United States Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.
• Guilt is determined in a criminal trial and has a very high bar of proof
• Liability is determined in a civil trial and requires a lower bar than criminal guilt

Reference links

Did Donald Trump rape E. Jean Carroll? Here's what a jury and judge said.

Nine jurors found Donald Trump had sexually abused E. Jean Carroll, but they didn't call it "rape." Here's why a judge said that word still applies.

www.usatoday.com

Fact Check: Was Donald Trump found guilty of rape?

Trump critics claimed he was found guilty of rape after E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit against him ended.

www.newsweek.com

 

[HTacianas]

It seems there is some debate as to whether D J Trump raped E Jean Carroll or not.

Facts:

• D J Trump was never found guilty in criminal court of raping or sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll.
  E Jean Carrol did not make her claim of being raped until after the statute of limitations expired and so Trump could not be criminally charged.
• D J Trump was found liable of sexual assault of E Jean Carroll in a NY Court
  NY laws determine that rape must require penetration by male genitallia
• D J Trump failed in court to sue E Jean Carroll for defamation when she publicly claimed he raped her
  The Federal Judge Lewis Kaplan, ruled that the jury verdict showed Carroll's rape allegation was "substantially true" and dismissed the counterclaim
• General definitions of rape are not restricted to penetration by male genitallia, but can include fingers or objects
  Wikipedia Rape: Rape is a type of sexual assault involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration carried out against a person without their consent.
  

  Rape in the United States - Wikipedia

  en.wikipedia.org
  Rape in the United States is defined by the United States Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.
• Guilt is determined in a criminal trial and has a very high bar of proof
• Liability is determined in a civil trial and requires a lower bar than criminal guilt

Reference links

Did Donald Trump rape E. Jean Carroll? Here's what a jury and judge said.

Nine jurors found Donald Trump had sexually abused E. Jean Carroll, but they didn't call it "rape." Here's why a judge said that word still applies.

www.usatoday.com

Fact Check: Was Donald Trump found guilty of rape?

Trump critics claimed he was found guilty of rape after E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit against him ended.

www.newsweek.com

You left out the choice "they had consensual sex then she later accused him of sexual assault". That would be my guess.

 

[stevil]

You left out the choice "they had consensual sex then she later accused him of sexual assault". That would be my guess.

Trump hasn't said they had consensual sex, he hasn't used that as a defense at all.
He denies having any sexual intercourse or sexual experience with her, He says she isn't his type.

If he had said it was consensual then I would have put that as an option.

 

[AlexB23]

It seems there is some debate as to whether D J Trump raped E Jean Carroll or not.

Facts:

• D J Trump was never found guilty in criminal court of raping or sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll.
  E Jean Carrol did not make her claim of being raped until after the statute of limitations expired and so Trump could not be criminally charged.
• D J Trump was found liable of sexual assault of E Jean Carroll in a NY Court
  NY laws determine that rape must require penetration by male genitallia
• D J Trump failed in court to sue E Jean Carroll for defamation when she publicly claimed he raped her
  The Federal Judge Lewis Kaplan, ruled that the jury verdict showed Carroll's rape allegation was "substantially true" and dismissed the counterclaim
• General definitions of rape are not restricted to penetration by male genitallia, but can include fingers or objects
  Wikipedia Rape: Rape is a type of sexual assault involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration carried out against a person without their consent.
  

  Rape in the United States - Wikipedia

  en.wikipedia.org
  Rape in the United States is defined by the United States Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.
• Guilt is determined in a criminal trial and has a very high bar of proof
• Liability is determined in a civil trial and requires a lower bar than criminal guilt

Reference links

Did Donald Trump rape E. Jean Carroll? Here's what a jury and judge said.

Nine jurors found Donald Trump had sexually abused E. Jean Carroll, but they didn't call it "rape." Here's why a judge said that word still applies.

www.usatoday.com

Fact Check: Was Donald Trump found guilty of rape?

Trump critics claimed he was found guilty of rape after E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit against him ended.

www.newsweek.com

Alright. Legal stuff can be tough to understand, but r*pe is 100% unlawful, so I believe Donald is guilty, and should be put in jail for assaulting E. Jean Carroll.

This is a summary of the Carroll v. Trump document, which has evidence against Donald Trump. The document can be viewed in entirety here: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html

Summary:
This legal document, authored by Judge Lewis A. Kaplan on July 19, 2023, is a memorandum opinion denying Defendant's Rule 59 motion in the case titled "Carroll v. Trump." The case involves two lawsuits brought by E. Jean Carroll against former President Donald J. Trump. The first lawsuit ("Carroll I") concerns defamation charges resulting from Trump's 2019 statements denying Carroll's claim that he sexually assaulted her. The second lawsuit ("Carroll II"), tried in April and May 2023, adds a defamation claim based on Trump's 2022 statement and a separate claim for damages for the sexual assault itself, facilitated by New York's Adult Survivors Act (ASA).

Judge Kaplan delves into the details of the trial proceedings, highlighting key testimonies and pieces of evidence presented throughout the case. Regarding the sexual assault claim, the jury found that Trump sexually abused Carroll, caused her injury, and engaged in willfully or wantonly negligent conduct. Despite the jury's ruling that Trump did not technically 'rape' Carroll within the strict definition laid out in the New York Penal Law, the judge clarifies that the term 'rape,' in this context, refers to a narrower concept than its common usage. Based on the evidence presented, the judge determines that the jury implicitly found that Trump digitally penetrated Carroll—constituting rape in a broader sense—justifying the $2 million compensatory damages awarded.

Turning to the defamation charge, the judge explains that Trump's 2022 statement asserted that Carroll lied about the sexual assault and was engaging in a hoax to boost her book sales. After evaluating the evidence and assessing comparative cases, the judge finds that the jury's compensatory damages award of $1.7 million for the reputation repair program and $1 million for non-program damages does not deviate materially from reasonable compensation. Furthermore, the $280,000 punitive damages award for the defamation claim does not violate due process.

Ultimately, Judge Kaplan dismisses Trump's request for a new trial or remittitur, affirming the original verdict.

 

[Yttrium]

I don't have enough information to make a decision. I respect the jury's decision in the case, especially in light of Trump's character, but I expect the eyewitness testimony of both parties to be inaccurate.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

I don't have enough information to make a decision. I respect the jury's decision in the case, especially in light of Trump's character, but I expect the eyewitness testimony of both parties to be inaccurate.

Agree. That option needs to be added to the poll.

 

[stevil]

Agree. That option needs to be added to the poll.

OK, have added a Don't know option. Hopefully this is worded sufficiently.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

OK, have added a Don't know option. Hopefully this is worded sufficiently.

Ehh... not quite. You've added too much bias. I don't know because of a lack of information not because I think they're both lying and/or that the jury is just making stuff up.

The jury actually saw the evidence and heard the arguments. If they are speculating it's based on that, not that they don't know either and just made up their minds because they didn't like Trump or did like Carroll.

The option should be just "Don't know; not enough information."

Could probably add a "Don't Really Care" option too that would get a lot of traction.

 

[stevil]

Ehh... not quite. You've added too much bias. I don't know because of a lack of information not because I think they're both lying and/or that the jury is just making stuff up.

The jury actually saw the evidence and heard the arguments. If they are speculating it's based on that, not that they don't know either and just made up their minds because they didn't like Trump or did like Carroll.

The option should be just "Don't know; not enough information."

Could probably add a "Don't Really Care" option too that would get a lot of traction.

Well, I was going by what the poster said and to which you agreed with.
We know the jury made a determination that Trump was liable for Sexual Assault.
We know they were doing that in the confines of the NY legal definition of "rape"
We know that many people typically find the NY legal definition too narrow.
The poster was saying that the testimony of Trump and Carroll may not be reliable, but despite this, the jury made a determination anyway. They didn't say, sexual assault couldn't be established, they said that sexual assault was established.
So for a person saying "I don't know" they are saying that they don't trust the jury's determination and this is because???? They don't trust either parties account of the events.
Anyway, I'll have another go at the option.

 

[Bradskii]

There needs to be another option: Why is this being dragged out now as a topic of discussion?

 

[Hank77]

I don't have enough information to make a decision. I respect the jury's decision in the case, especially in light of Trump's character,

This is my view.

 

[stevil]

This is my view.

I've added it as an option. There is a character limit though, so I've shortened it. But I don't understand this option.
How can you be a Don't know = not enough information to make a decision. If you respect the juries decision.
The Jury said that D Trump sexually assaulted E Jean Carrol in the form of using his fingers to violate her privates against her will.
So if you respect that decision, do you consider that rape? do you consider that just sexual assault? Do you consider it neither?

 

[stevil]

Could probably add a "Don't Really Care" option too that would get a lot of traction.

Don't care? Like, Rape or sexual assault shouldn't be a crime?
Or don't care if a presidential candidate raped or sexually assaulted a woman. For most people this would be so significant that they wouldn't be running for president.
I guess for some people they probably don't care, they want Trump as president anyway.

 

[JustOneWay]

Who cares? Donald was fined for

Don't care? Like, Rape or sexual assault shouldn't be a crime?
Or don't care if a presidential candidate raped or sexually assaulted a woman. For most people this would be so significant that they wouldn't be running for president.
I guess for some people they probably don't care, they want Trump as president anyway.

It is a moot point. The original lawsuit was for defamation, and the second was for more defamation. The judge agreed it was rape, but it remains Carroll's word against Donald, and unless there is physical evidence this will go nowhere.

 

[Hank77]

How can you be a Don't know = not enough information to make a decision. If you respect the juries decision.

It's not a 'Don't know' it's an 'I don't have enough information to find a different result than the jury.' Therefore, I have no reason to object to the jury's finding, they did hear all the evidence.

They said Trump defamed her.

 

[stevil]

It's not a 'Don't know' it's an 'I don't have enough information to find a different result than the jury.' Therefore, I have no reason to object to the jury's finding, they did hear all the evidence.

They said Trump defamed her.

They said Trump defamed her by saying that he didn't sexually assault her = they said he sexually assaulted her.

Then when Trump tried to sue her for defamation for saying he raped her, the judge said she didn't defame Trump because what she said was true. = Trump raped her.


But my point is, if you are going to say "Don't know" then you are already over turning the juries ruling in your mind.
If you accept the Juries ruling then you either are a Yes, Trump raped her, or a No she was only sexually assaulted.
Aren't you?

 

[Hank77]

If you accept the Juries ruling then you either are a Yes, Trump raped her, or a No she was only sexually assaulted.
Aren't you?

I'm saying that the jury determined that he was guilty of what he was charged with and I believe the jury was a serious jury that heard all the evidence and therefore they made a correct determination.

 

[stevil]

I'm saying that the jury determined that he was guilty of what he was charged with and I believe the jury was a serious jury that heard all the evidence and therefore they made a correct determination.

But that's not an I Don't know. That's either Sexual Assault or Rape.

 

[Hank77]

But that's not an I Don't know. That's either Sexual Assault or Rape.

Under NY law he committed sexual assault, in most other states what he did would be rape.