Virgin birth of Jesus and its acknowledgement

[Righttruth]

It is not a conflict for me. It is not an either/or.

Jesus Christ directly confronted and revealed Himself to Paul. Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles as directed.

You try to find conflict where there is none.

Self-claims won't help that too when they contradict the preaching of Jesus.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Don't you think that Koran itself will help in that respect compared to Jews who continue to reject Jesus?

No.

 

[redleghunter]

So his acknowledgement of virgin birth is a falsehood then?

It denies the Incarnation.

His account makes Jesus Christ a mere man and not Truly God and truly man.

 

[redleghunter]

That is what we hope for. Don't you think that Koran itself will help in that respect compared to Jews who continue to reject Jesus?

No.

I also believe that the Holy Spirit is also an incarnation of God. There is only one God.

How is the Holy Spirit "an" Incarnation of God?

 

[redleghunter]

We also need to pay importance to Mohammed for his recognition explicitly that is not found in the OT.

Why?

 

[redleghunter]

Self-claims won't help that too when they contradict the preaching of Jesus.

Show me the contradictions.

Prove it.

 

[Philip_B]

I also believe that the Holy Spirit is also an incarnation of God. There is only one God.

I am not sure how to really explain the problem with this statement save from the self evident truth that the Holy Spirit is not 'in the flesh'.

The word incarnation means at the literal basic level to become flesh or to become meat. In the Nicene Creed to we say "and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man." or in the ELLC text "was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human". In no sense has anyone, to my knowledge, suggested that the Holy Spirit became flesh.

The Incarnation is part of the unique mission of God to reconcile humankind to himself. I think you would find Anselm's book Cur Deus Homo especially helpful in coming to grips with this important matter.

Given that the Holy Spirit is not human, but divine, it makes no sense, to me at least, in terms of language or theology to speak of the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, but rather denigrates the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Righttruth]

No.

In what way?

 

[Righttruth]

It denies the Incarnation.

His account makes Jesus Christ a mere man and not Truly God and truly man.

Incarnation doesn't mean being fully God.

 

[Righttruth]

No.



How is the Holy Spirit "an" Incarnation of God?

It got to be, since we have only one God.

 

[Righttruth]

Why?

Why not?

 

[Righttruth]

Show me the contradictions.

Prove it.

I cannot produce the entire book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From The Gospel?"

 

[Paul Yohannan]

In what way?

Psalm 95:5 LXX

 

[Righttruth]

I am not sure how to really explain the problem with this statement save from the self evident truth that the Holy Spirit is not 'in the flesh'.

The word incarnation means at the literal basic level to become flesh or to become meat. In the Nicene Creed to we say "and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man." or in the ELLC text "was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human". In no sense has anyone, to my knowledge, suggested that the Holy Spirit became flesh.

The Incarnation is part of the unique mission of God to reconcile humankind to himself. I think you would find Anselm's book Cur Deus Homo especially helpful in coming to grips with this important matter.

Given that the Holy Spirit is not human, but divine, it makes no sense, to me at least, in terms of language or theology to speak of the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, but rather denigrates the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

You are right with the typical understanding of the word 'incarnation'. The Holy Spirit has been personfied, and in this sense I have tried to imply that by saying that the Holy Spirit is also an incarnation of God. May be the right word is 'manifestation'. We all know the complexity of understanding fully God and His attributes

 

[DrBubbaLove]

You are right with the typical understanding of the word 'incarnation'. The Holy Spirit has been personfied, and in this sense I have tried to imply that by saying that the Holy Spirit is also an incarnation of God. May be the right word is 'manifestation'. We all know the complexity of understanding fully God and His attributes

It gets unnecessarily complicated when someone does not understand what the words being used to describe the Trinity mean.
What is described above sounds like some form of what the Sabellians believed (see modalism). I read that the Oneness Pentecostals, United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches teach forms of this non-trinitarian view.

 

[Philip_B]

You are right with the typical understanding of the word 'incarnation'. The Holy Spirit has been personfied, and in this sense I have tried to imply that by saying that the Holy Spirit is also an incarnation of God. May be the right word is 'manifestation'. We all know the complexity of understanding fully God and His attributes

Well sadly this is a most unhelpful use of language, and would most likely lead to all sorts of misunderstandings and heterodox opinion. You just can't take a word, and in this case a word used to describe an important theological matter, and just use it to mean something else.

 

[redleghunter]

Incarnation doesn't mean being fully God.

Then please explain your Christology.

 

[redleghunter]

It got to be, since we have only one God.

That is incoherent. Please explain.

 

[redleghunter]

Why not?

Because the Qur'an is not Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures.

Or do you see the Qur'an as such?

 

[redleghunter]

I cannot produce the entire book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From The Gospel?"

Ah the book by the Brahman mechanical engineer.