Urghhh, Why Can't Jesus Save Everybody!!

[fat wee robin]

The idea this is a true depiction of the mystical " hell " and our Elohim YAH'S Paradise prepared for the elect is preposterous .

As an adolescent in Sunday school I pondered the thinking of some that hold the folks in our Masters bosom can see the lost , in ' hell ' . My Lutheran SS teacher said , folks in Heaven will NOT know who the LOST SOULS ARE . What kind of Heaven would it be to look over and see your WHOLE family and every body you ever had bible study with , roasting in ' hell '.

As for the wet finger tip , dipped in water in the PIT of FIRE that is NEVER QUENCHED ?
Someones pulling my leg .... correct ? That's passed to funny for comment , to out and out levity .

While I'm here , one question ; What kind of a JUST ' god ' would torture one of His own Creations , forever and ever ? If that created being lived , and sinned every day of it's entire life of 70 years .
The U.S. Supreme court isn't that cruel , an eye for an eye would only be 70 years , correct ?

Hallelu-YAH .

I think that most christians have no idea of what 'heaven' and the 'kingdom of God' mean . We have to look around us at history and the achievements we have made since Christ came ,and

Okay, If I am wrong your doctrine doesn't believe that eternal conscious torment in hell is part of God's plan, then where did hell originate? If Hell is not God's idea, whose idea is it? If God sends people to hell when they die where they are tortured alive for all eternity, you can't really say that God has nothing to do with it.

I just believe what the Bible says, that the wicked will be destroyed.

For me God's works go in cycles .Everything which grows has a cycle of time .We are coming to the end of one now ,the last part of which Jesus in knowing the end was coming , came to complete His work to give everyone a chance to enter into the next new cycle ,the beginings of which we see right under our noses in advanced technology , science , médicine, and so on .
When the cycle ends ,when He finalises it, those who have heard His word , have confessed their sins seriously ,accept Him as Creator ,and fall in line with His will, they will enter into the New and higher cycle,and those who do not, will fall away ,be left behind, to whatever lower existence there is .
Hell exists on this earth here already for quite a lot of people , and periods of heavenly existence for others . Unless you are living in a bubble you shold know this, and be afraid , because those who change places with those in 'hell on earth ', will have no hope ,as they refused the Hope of Christ when they had the chance . All will be given the chance to choose no matter how lowly their lives are now ,but in the New and Higher life cycle, the END is automatic .It is like when the last flight leaves to go home and you are on a deserted island with nothing and no hope of ever being saved .

God does not banish you , you in you orguiel banish yourself .

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I think that most christians have no idea of what 'heaven' and the 'kingdom of God' mean . We have to look around us at history and the achievements we have made since Christ came ,and


For me God's works go in cycles .Everything which grows has a cycle of time .We are coming to the end of one now ,the last part of which Jesus in knowing the end was coming , came to complete His work to give everyone a chance to enter into the next new cycle ,the beginings of which we see right under our noses in advanced technology , science , médicine, and so on .
When the cycle ends ,when He finalises it, those who have heard His word , have confessed their sins seriously ,accept Him as Creator ,and fall in line with His will, they will enter into the New and higher cycle,and those who do not, will fall away ,be left behind, to whatever lower existence there is .
Hell exists on this earth here already for quite a lot of people , and periods of heavenly existence for others . Unless you are living in a bubble you shold know this, and be afraid , because those who change places with those in 'hell on earth ', will have no hope ,as they refused the Hope of Christ when they had the chance . All will be given the chance to choose no matter how lowly their lives are now ,but in the New and Higher life cycle, the END is automatic .It is like when the last flight leaves to go home and you are on a deserted island with nothing and no hope of ever being saved .

God does not banish you , you in you orguiel banish yourself .

Good post. While not sure if I agree with every thought as expressed (adding 10/2- upon further reflection I think this is a beautiful depiction of the concepts), I like it and think it far better represents a more traditional orthodox view to see Hell as a place people have "put themselves" and the result of that self-inflicted suffering being as CS Lewis describes "what remains". Which then leads me to say (again) it is most odd to attempt to portray the orthodox view as a torture God "does" on those people. Allow them to suffer eternally - yes. But that makes Him no more a torturer than the suffering He allows

 

[2KnowHim]

Good post. While not sure if I agree with every thought as expressed, I like it and think it far better represents a more traditional orthodox view to see Hell as a place people have "put themselves" and the result of that self-inflicted suffering being as CS Lewis describes "what remains". Which then leads me to say (again) it is most odd to attempt to portray the orthodox view as a torture God "does" on those people. Allow them to suffer eternally - yes. But that makes Him no more a torturer than the suffering He allows

No, just a liar right?
And He shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there shall be no more death.
If I be lifted up will draw all men unto me.
I came not to destroy men's lives but to save.
Oh death where is thy sting, oh grave where is thy victory?.
Behold the lamb of God which taketh the sin of the world away.
As we have born the image of the earthly, we shall also bare the image of the heavenly.
As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
For God was in Christ Reconciling The World unto Himself, not imputing their sins unto them.
For He is the Saviour of All men , Especially to those who believe.
For He hath concluded them all in unbelief that He may have mercy upon All.
And God shall be All in All.

As all of us have been made sinners through the one man Adam, and that not by choice, So All of us shall be made Righteous by the Last Adam, that also not by choice. For He is the one who chooses us , we do not choose Him. But He shall be testified of in due time to all men.
And then Every knee will bow and Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to The Glory of The Father.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

No, just a liar right?
And He shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there shall be no more death.
If I be lifted up will draw all men unto me.
I came not to destroy men's lives but to save.
Oh death where is thy sting, oh grave where is thy victory?.
Behold the lamb of God which taketh the sin of the world away.
As we have born the image of the earthly, we shall also bare the image of the heavenly.
As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
For God was in Christ Reconciling The World unto Himself, not imputing their sins unto them.
For He is the Saviour of All men , Especially to those who believe.
For He hath concluded them all in unbelief that He may have mercy upon All.
And God shall be All in All.

As all of us have been made sinners through the one man Adam, and that not by choice, So All of us shall be made Righteous by the Last Adam, that also not by choice. For He is the one who chooses us , we do not choose Him. But He shall be testified of in due time to all men.
And then Every knee will bow and Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to The Glory of The Father.

Falsely claiming another Christian is making Jesus/God a liar is no different than falsely claiming the orthodox view of Hell has God torturing people because suffering exists there. God is no more a torturer now in allowing suffering than He is allowing it to go unabated right now, just as He said it would be in, in Hell. God is not "torturing" babies right now, though He can certainly stop it. He allows suffering for His Good and Glory - which we might only one day see why that is so.

No more death can only be reference to our physical bodies as our soul already never dies. Since the orthodox view of Hell has people with bodies that never "die" experiencing suffering eternally - there would in fact be no more "death" which is caused by "sin". In case this was overlooked, sin is also "no more" BTW, even in Hell, so another reason "death" is no more - as "death" only entered this reality because of sin. So in a very real sense, at least in the orthodox view, the victory over death and sin was already accomplished at Calvary (as in people who die now are already experiencing even if only partially either Heaven or Hell). Whereas the UR view requires the victory described in those verses to wait - wait for not Christ to win but the last person UR has us believe will finally "get it" in Hell and come to love God. So this UR view has everyone waiting for that last person in Hell to "win" over death (and presumably sin) rather than seeing Jesus as already doing that thousands of years ago. I do not see in those quoted verses credit given for anybody finally winning that victory over death to the last person in Hell.

What Jesus did on the Cross demonstrates a Love to God that pleases Him far greater than the total displeasure caused by all the past, present and future sins of mankind. And because that is so, we can confidently say Jesus made possible the reconciliation of all of us. A reconciliation possible because He clearly says the application of it is not a blanket pardon of everyone (which God could certainly have done without making ANY sacrifice), but rather something offered to us and requiring us to consent to BEFORE that pardon can be applied. An offer He indicated ENDS when this life ends and which He and His Apostles clearly indicate our choice in this life has ETERNAL consequence. He said all these things too and we cannot ignore the hard things He said to cling to some cut and paste of only the quotes we like to create some alternate view of reality.

In a nut shell, quoting all those verses does not make a case against the orthodox view of Hell. No, it actually makes a case against in the UR view - because it is very evident that those quotes intentionally ignore/leave out every quote He made which is totally incompatible with the concepts of a blanket pardon for everyone, any escape from Hell and everyone eventually making it.

 

[OldShepherd]

...

 

[Der Alte]

The entire chapters of Luke 14 through 16 is about Jesus teaching parables and stories about the Kingdom, including the story of Lazarus and the story of the Prodigal son.
The point of the stories is quite clear to any reasonable mind:

Implying that anyone who does not agree with you does not have a reasonable mind! This is my final caution about personal remarks! Before when I quoted 8 verses from Eccl 9 to show how your proof text is out of context you ignored it and blew it off as a "wall of scripture" Here you write 3 pages, a wall of text.

The Kingdom of God is like Lazarus and the rich man -- Those who follow Christ receive eternal life like Lazarus, and those who reject Christ receive eternal condemnation like the rich man.

Please explain how you come to this conclusion when “following Christ” is not mentioned in Luke 16. In fact “following Christ” is never mentioned once in the entire book of Luke.

Let me repeat this, all, 100%, of the genuine parables compare an unknown spiritual truth to something known, within the experience of Jesus' audience. The only thing known in the story of Lazarus is a poor beggar and a rich man the rest is unknown. Is the kingdom of God like a rich man being tormented in hell? None of the genuine parables “prophesy” a future event, you claim for the Lazarus story that it prophesies what will happen to believers and nonbelievers in the future.

The Kingdom of God is like the Prodigal son -- After squandering our lives in worldly living, God is ready to forgive us and lovingly accept us as His own children.

There is more to the prodigal son parable, the reaction of the faithful son when the prodigal returns, which is a lot like many “Christians” when a lost sheep returns to the flock.

The comparisons to the Kingdom are quite clear.
Again, what is this early church you keep referring to? Do you mean the Catholic church?

I have explained it twice, what kind of game are you playing? For your enlightenment there was no Catholic Church until 1075 when the bishop of Rome unilaterally issued 27 Dictatus Papae (Papal Dictates) making himself the head of the church. I was and am talking about the native Greek speaking church in the 3 centuries immediately following the time of the apostles. Which included Polycarp and Ignatius disciples of John and Irenaeus disciple of Polycarp.

The Bible wasn't written for only the early church to understand. It was written for the entire church to understand. What the early church believed is irrelevant. We are to read the Bible for ourselves and not solely rely on the interpretations of others.

I get a little suspicious of people who can’t read Greek but claim to have the correct interpretation of the Bible and reject out-of-hand the early church writings. How can we know that someone today has it right but claims that Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Justin, etc. were all wrong.

*I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.* -- (Heb 8:10-11).
The laws of God are written in our hearts, not only in the hearts of the early church. And the Bible was written for the church throughout all time, not only for the early church. Why are you of the view that the early church had some kind of superior knowledge to ours? They didn't.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" -- (2 Tim 3:16).

Already explained this above. If you think the early church fathers were wrong you must prove it.

*He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly...They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.* -- (2 Peter 2:6).
*Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.* -- (Mal 4:3).
The Bible said it, and God inspired it.

2 Peter 2:6 does not say anything about the length of the punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah

The Lazarus story is only a part of the whole biblical narrative. What is not found in the Lazarus story is found elsewhere in the biblical narrative.

It is true that there is more to the NT than the Lazarus story but how does that benefit the scribes, Pharisees, etc. who heard the Lazarus story but didn’t follow Jesus around throughout His ministry and hear the rest of the story?

*For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little."* -- (Isa 28:10).
You keep talking about "proof texts" without actually proving anything.
Granting eternal life to worms is nonsense. Jesus did not die to save worms.
Asking me to provide a single scripture that says "the wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgment then another death" is disingenuous and suggests you are dodging the subject.

How is it disingenuous to ask for a scripture to back up what you are saying? Rom 6:23 says the wages of sin is death but you keep talking as if it says death, resurrection, judgment then another death. I am still waiting for any scripture which says that.

The penalty of sin is death, not eternal life in hell. That death penalty is implemented beginning with a resurrection to judgement, followed by the second death, from which there is no resurrection.
They support my argument of no eternal life in hell.
The Book of Revelation is written in symbols. It is describing future events in the form of symbolic representations.

How can the death penalty be implemented “beginning with a resurrection?” One must be dead before there can be a resurrection! There is not one single scripture which says anyone will die a second death. And we have the “symbolic” copout, whenever scripture as written contradicts someone’s doctrine then dismiss it as SPAM-Fig, symbolic, poetic, allegory, metaphor or figurative, anything but literal.

*And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.* -- (Rev 20:13-14).
"Death and hell" is simply referring to the wicked people who are now dead (death) and in their graves (hell/Hades). The wicked who are now dead in Hades will be resurrected to judgment, after which they will be cast into the lake of fire. Death and Hades will not literally be cast into the lake of fire, it is the wicked people who rose from death in Hades that are cast in.

Very mixed up! “Death and Hell,” Rev 20:13 cannot be “the wicked people who are now dead” because the dead that were in them i.e. the wicked people, come out of “death and hell.”

Scriptures tell us that the penalty of human sin is eternal death.

False! There is no scripture which says “the penalty of human sin is eternal death.”

It does not tell us that the penalty of demonic sin is eternal death.
Scriptures seem to suggest that the penalty of demonic sin is eternal imprisonment.

“Seem to suggest?” Very vague and speculative.

The death penalty for humans, and life in prison for demons.
Maybe this is because spirits do not die.
These are all symbols. Death does not literally ride on the back of a pale horse. The pale horse is a symbol of battle, as in 'battle horses'. The verse is simply telling us that, under demonic influence, many people will die (death) and be sent to their graves (Hades) in the battle to come during the Great Tribulation.
More symbols.

Symbolic copout! More speculation “Maybe this is because spirits do not die.” God used angels to judge in the OT why do they suddenly become “symbolic” in the NT?

(Rev 16:13-16)
“Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs...".
(Rev 19:19-20)
"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs…The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur…
(Rev 20:10)
...and the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The verses above tell us that three evil spirit came out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast and the false-prophet. The dragon, the beast and the false-prophet are symbolic representations of demons (evil spirits). They are not humans.

Once again the SPAM-Fig copout. The false prophet was a person who “wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them” i.e. the people, in Rev 19:19-20 the false prophet is referred to as “he” not “it” or “them.”

The devil, the beast and the false-prophet were all captured and thrown into the 'lake of fire' where they are tormented day and night forever.
The 'lake of fire' is also a symbolic representation of eternal separation from God.
The penalty of sin for humans is eternal separation from God through death.
The penalty of sin for demons is eternal separation from God through imprisonment.

Earlier you said the “The dragon, the beast and the false-prophet are symbolic representations of demons.” Please explain to me how a ‘symbolic representation” can be tormented day and night forever? If the LOF is “a symbolic representation of eternal separation from God” why are the devil, beast and false prophet tormented day and night forever? What about those not written in the book of life who are thrown into the LOF Rom 20:15? What happens to them? And of course you have not said anything about Rev 14;11.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.​

 

[Der Alte]

[Previous post continued]

IMO the eternal torment of demons is a result of the mental and emotional anguish they will experience from being eternally imprisoned, and not from physical pain.
We don't disagree on whether the wicked will experience "punishment" or "punishing". We simply disagree on what that "punishment" or "punishing" is. For you it is life in hell. For the Bible it is death in hell.

Thank you for this unsupported opinion. Tormented day and night for ever and ever is not mental and emotional anguish. Yes we do disagree you want the term “eternal punishment” to mean death and “eternal life” to mean a life that does not end. Both terms have the exact same grammatical structure and Jesus knew the word for death if He meant death that is what He would have said. The Sadducees in Jesus’ audience did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everyone dies, old, young, sick, well, rich, poor and punishment did not have anything to do with it. “Eternal punishment” would have meant something far worse than death.

It is not telling us that the fire and worms will remain forever. The idea presented here is that the fire will not be extinguished and the worms will not die out until everything is reduced to ashes. A fire that burns itself out is a fire that has not been quenched.

Imposing your assumptions/presuppositions on the text. The passage does not say anything about thefire will not be extinguished and the worms will not die out until everything is reduced to ashes. Many Jews whom Jesus taught believed that the unrighteous were punished by fire and worms gnawing on them for all eternity. If they were wrong why didn’t Jesus correct them in Luke 9?

Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet.* -- (Mal 4:3).

Is it your position that the righteous will be trampling the ashes of the wicked throughout all eternity? Or does this verse refer to what God does to the remaining wicked on one day in this life?

The worms also represent the presence of death. The idea is that dead carcasses attract worms. The fact that worms are mentioned proves that hell is a place of death, and not a place of eternal torment. Worms are attracted to dead carcasses. They help with the decomposition of dead bodies.

If "eternal" refers to the fire, then Sodom and Gomorrah would still be on fire. The "eternal" is referring to the "punishment" by fire. Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated by fire. The annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrah by fire serves as an example of the annihilation of the wicked by fire. The wicked will be annihilated by fire just as Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated by fire.

But Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected and stand judgment. Your proof text does not address the eternal fate of Sodom and Gomorrah.

After the final judgment, all the "elements" in the earth, which includes "ungodly men", will be "destroyed by fire". They will be "burned up".
You take biblical interpretation to the literal extreme.

The Bible is literal unless the scripture clearly states otherwise or the context requires it. Trying to force scripture to fit one’s assumptions/presuppositions by assuming it is figurative is not credible Bible interpretation.

*The great day of the LORD is near — near and coming quickly. Listen! The cry on the day of the LORD will be bitter, the shouting of the warrior there. That day will be a day of wrath, a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness, a day of trumpet and battle cry...The day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up.* -- (Zeph 1:14-17, 2 Peter 3:10).
Is that what you were trying to prove with those 8 verses? I think you missed the point of verse 5.

No you missed the point of the entire passage by imposing your assumptions/presuppositions on the text ignoring the six times the author used the phrase “under the sun. .

Here, I'll quote it again:
Ecc 9:3-5 . . .
The author is describing the hope of the living and contrasting it with the hopelessness of the dead:
(4) "For a living dog is better than a dead lion."
He then shows why it is better to be alive than to be dead:
…
The author's point is that it is better to be alive than to be dead because the dead do not know anything and are quickly forgotten.

This last phrase is partly correct. The dead know nothing “under the sun” knowledge of them is quickly forgotten “under the sun.” The author who did not know what happens to a man’s spirit in chap 3 is talking about what happens in this world “under the sun,” vs. 3 “under the sun,”, vs. 6, “under the sun,” vs. 9 “under the sun.” twice, vs. 11 “under the sun,” and vs. 13 “under the sun.” Six times in chapter 9 the author is talking about what happens in this world and although he did not know what happens to a man’s spirit when he dies. You would have us believe the author is talking about “under the sun” in vs. 3 and vs. 6 but suddenly talks about man’s eternal fate in vs. 5

Ecc_9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun,
Ecc_9:6 … neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecc_9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Ecc_9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong
Ecc_9:13 This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, ,​

The author may not have known in chapter 3 if the spirit goes up or down after death, but he certainly knew in chapter 9 that the spirit was not conscious after death. He said it himself.

I can’t believe you are actually saying this. In Eccls. 3 the author did not know where a man’s spirit went when he died but suddenly in chapter 9 he is definitely speaking about man’s eternal fate.

God is also capable of turning stones into people, but he doesn't. Granting worms eternal life is nonsense. Christ did not die to save worms.
I believe him too.

Evidently you do not believe Christ when He said “their worm does not die” twice in Luke 9. Christ did not think that worms which did not die were nonsense. The worms which did not die were there to punish the sinners

But there is a distinction between what Jesus said and what Jesus meant. What he said is received by the physical ear. What he meant is received by the spiritual heart.

This does not make any sense!

*It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.* -- (John 6:63).

Yes, and so?

 

[ron4shua]

The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of messengers, but do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

2And if I have prophecy, and know all secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all belief, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am none at all.

3And if I give out all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, I am not profited at all.

4Love is patient, is kind, love does not envy, love does not boast, is not puffed up,

5does not behave indecently, does not seek its own, is not provoked, reckons not the evil,

6does not rejoice over the unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth,

7it covers all, believes all, expects all, endures all.

8Love never fails. And whether there be prophecies, they shall be inactive; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be inactive.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be inactive.

11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child, I reasoned as a child. But when I became a man, I did away with childish matters.

12For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know, as I also have been known.

13And now belief, expectation, and love remain – these three. But the greatest of these is love.


9And His taught ones were asking Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”


10And He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the reign of Elohim, but to the rest in parables, that ‘Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not understand.’

3But I am afraid, lest, as the serpent deceived Ḥawwah by his trickery, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Messiah.

4For, indeed, if he who is coming proclaims another יהושע,a whom we have not proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different Good News which you have not accepted, you put up with it well enough!

Hallelu-YAH .

 

[BeStill&Know]

The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of messengers, but do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

2And if I have prophecy, and know all secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all belief, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am none at all.

3And if I give out all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, I am not profited at all.

4Love is patient, is kind, love does not envy, love does not boast, is not puffed up,

5does not behave indecently, does not seek its own, is not provoked, reckons not the evil,

6does not rejoice over the unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth,

7it covers all, believes all, expects all, endures all.

8Love never fails. And whether there be prophecies, they shall be inactive; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be inactive.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be inactive.

11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child, I reasoned as a child. But when I became a man, I did away with childish matters.

12For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know, as I also have been known.

13And now belief, expectation, and love remain – these three. But the greatest of these is love.


9And His taught ones were asking Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”


10And He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the reign of Elohim, but to the rest in parables, that ‘Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not understand.’

3But I am afraid, lest, as the serpent deceived Ḥawwah by his trickery, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Messiah.

4For, indeed, if he who is coming proclaims another יהושע,a whom we have not proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different Good News which you have not accepted, you put up with it well enough!

Hallelu-YAH .

I like this version of one of my favorite scriptures. thank you. i'm Googling it now.

 

[Jaxxi]

I have had so much trouble with this question. I want it to be true soo bad! There are plenty of testimonies out there of people actually speaking to God, seeing hell, hearts turned. Why can't he do that with everyone! I know some of you will say, so you think Hitler should be sent to heaven? In the bible it says if you've missed one law you've missed them all! James 2:10. So yes I'm equal to Hitler in Gods eyes. It also says "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions." Jesus blood was to take the sins of the whole world, I believe his blood is easily enough to save the whole world. Such a harsh punishment demands a verdict. To be honest if he doesn't make it crystal clear for me I would rather not have a free will at all then to go to hell.

Why would Hitler go to hell? He didn't kill anybody...the people who he commanded to kill went through with the killings when they had free will to kill Hitler instead if they wanted to. He was one man. They knew what they were doing was wrong and chose to do it anyways. The blood is on THEIR hands...not Hitler's. (Now don't get me wrong...I'm not saying he was a good man by any means but we can't solely blame Hitler for the Holocaust- he had help)

 

[BeStill&Know]

I have had so much trouble with this question. I want it to be true soo bad! There are plenty of testimonies out there of people actually speaking to God, seeing hell, hearts turned. Why can't he do that with everyone! I know some of you will say, so you think Hitler should be sent to heaven? In the bible it says if you've missed one law you've missed them all! James 2:10. So yes I'm equal to Hitler in Gods eyes. It also says "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions." Jesus blood was to take the sins of the whole world, I believe his blood is easily enough to save the whole world. Such a harsh punishment demands a verdict. To be honest if he doesn't make it crystal clear for me I would rather not have a free will at all then to go to hell.

Jesus can not save those who refuse. He did not make robots who have no free will. He created us with the " freedom to choose", Him. It is a error to base your devotion and/obedience to Him on your feelings, for your feelings will always in this case, lead you astray.