unity - diviseveness

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lonnienord

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in a currently closed thread Solomon states: "Lonnie, no one likes the division anymore or less than you, however we are to accept with docility, the teaching of our bishops"
i'm wondering what to do when they appear to be wrong?
JESUS clearly prayed for unity.
JESUS wants HIS followers to live in unity; but the Catholic church will not allow it. It will not allow its members to recieve communion in other churches and it will not allow Christians (validly baptized which makes them children of GOD) to recieve communion.
How can you tell a Christian -- a child of GOD that she/he cannot recieve the Body and Blood of JESUS just because they do not yet accept the immaculate conception of Mary?
 
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QuantaCura

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John Paul II, in his encyclical on Christian unity, Ut Unum Sint, says this:

The unity willed by God can be attained only by the adherence of all to the content of revealed faith in its entirety. In matters of faith, compromise is in contradiction with God who is Truth. In the Body of Christ, "the way, and the truth, and the life" (Jn 14:6), who could consider legitimate a reconciliation brought about at the expense of the truth? The Council's Declaration on Religious Freedom Dignitatis Humanae attributes to human dignity the quest for truth, "especially in what concerns God and his Church",33 and adherence to truth's demands. A "being together" which betrayed the truth would thus be opposed both to the nature of God who offers his communion and to the need for truth found in the depths of every human heart.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...ts/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint_en.html
 
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anawim

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in a currently closed thread Solomon states: "Lonnie, no one likes the division anymore or less than you, however we are to accept with docility, the teaching of our bishops"
i'm wondering what to do when they appear to be wrong?
JESUS clearly prayed for unity.
JESUS wants HIS followers to live in unity; but the Catholic church will not allow it. It will not allow its members to recieve communion in other churches and it will not allow Christians (validly baptized which makes them children of GOD) to recieve communion.
How can you tell a Christian -- a child of GOD that she/he cannot recieve the Body and Blood of JESUS just because they do not yet accept the immaculate conception of Mary?

We do not allow others to receive because as Paul says, " For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself." ~1 Cor. 11:29

We don't receive in their churches because, with the exception of the Eastern Orthodox, other churches just have bread and wine (or whatever they use instead). They do not have a valid priesthood, so they do not have valid communion. A Catholic going to another church would be receiving nothing.

There is also the issue of what confusion it can create for those whose faith is weak. The appearance would be false. It would give the impression of unity that wasn't there.
 
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King of the Nations

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in a currently closed thread Solomon states: "Lonnie, no one likes the division anymore or less than you, however we are to accept with docility, the teaching of our bishops"
i'm wondering what to do when they appear to be wrong?


That all depends on the particular circumstances.

JESUS clearly prayed for unity.
JESUS wants HIS followers to live in unity; but the Catholic church will not allow it. It will not allow its members to recieve communion in other churches and it will not allow Christians (validly baptized which makes them children of GOD) to recieve communion.
How can you tell a Christian -- a child of GOD that she/he cannot recieve the Body and Blood of JESUS just because they do not yet accept the immaculate conception of Mary?

One of the most essential aspects of divine revelation is obedience to authority: God's and man's by extension. A simple "We believe in Jesus" does not constitute Christianity. Christianity consists of seven Sacraments, a heriarchy of "administrators", etc., etc. Anything less than complete Christianity (aka Catholicism) is objective disobedience to God. Such disobedience, on a subjective level, may well not be intentional. But it remains what it is objectively. Therefore, the Church, having the authority to administer the Sacraments as it does, must take care not to give those who believe in Jesus the false impression that one form of Christianity is as good as the next.

Does this make sense?

Greg
 
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Michelina

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The Unity for which Our Lord prayed is the true, authentic unity of mind and heart that He and the Father have. Superficial, artificial, partial Unity is not real Unity. Our Lord established a Church which is His Body. While non-Catholics pertain to it, they are not full members. It is incumbent upon those who are separated from us by inheritance or by their own choice to face the question of Where the Church established by Our Lord subsides and join Her. Our Lord did not die on the cross in order to open a smorgasbord where people could come and pick and choose what they like.

CCC 888 - 892 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task "to preach the Gospel of God to all men," in keeping with the Lord's command. They are "heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers" of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ." In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a "supernatural sense of faith" the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith." The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium's task to preserve God's people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church's shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms: "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. 892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent" which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.
 
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lonnienord

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wow being a cafiteria catholic
makes me think
am i catholic
i totally disagree with the church on communion.
interestingly i became and remain a catholic because of the Eucharist.
so?
pray for me!!
 
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Michelina

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pray for me!!

I do.

The fact that you don't yet fully understand the teaching of the Church doesn't mean that you won't do so in the future. What you do need to learn first of all is that you do not have the last word in the Church. Our pastors do. They are the ecclesia docens (docens = teaching). We are the ecclesia discens (discens = learning).

In Protestantism, individuals have the last word on what they believe. In Catholicism, we believe what our Pastors teach and obey their pastoral decisions, as per CCC 888 - 892. I have known Protestant converts, including a Calvinist Pastor who became a Catholic Priest, who have needed a few years to learn the authentically Catholic attitude toward authority. It takes time to learn and change.

Pax Christi tecum! :hug:
 
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ProCommunioneFacior

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wow being a cafiteria catholic
makes me think
am i catholic
i totally disagree with the church on communion.
interestingly i became and remain a catholic because of the Eucharist.
so?
pray for me!!

I have been praying for you and will continue to do so.

If I could make a request of you, I would ask you to take to prayer and study (from Catholic sources) the authority of the Church and Her role as given to Her by Christ.

Keep in mind that without this Church (which was instituted by Christ), that the Eucharist would not exist, nor would we have available to us the Truth that Christ has revealed to us. A Truth that he had to pay for dearly.

To reject the Church while accepting the Eucharist is contradictory and is gravely troubling.
 
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