United States Air Force chief suggests using weapons on U.S. citizens

[MachZer0]

Americans are seriously deluded if they think these "nonlethal" "high-power microwave devices" are the worst the U.S. federal regime has in store for them. Why would the federal government be developing advanced weaponry to be used by local police for "crowd control?" This minor leak of information is nothing more than an indirect warning to anyone who would dare to resist...

What other advanced weaponry do you envison the US Regime has in store to be used against American citizens?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Remember what the secretary said. Public Relations

PR for a death ray? Sheesh.

There are times when nonlethal weapons could be valuable in a combat situation, especially in urban warfare [/QUOTE]

Foreign or domestic?

Why not? If it is an effective, efficient, nonlethal weapon, it would be of great value for domestic crowd control

Is it now?

The Air Force has paid for research into nonlethal weapons, but he said the service is unlikely to spend more money on development until injury problems are reviewed by medical experts and resolved.

Sounds like they're still in the research stage. You want to test military hardware on our own civilians without proper safety procedures?

 

[MachZer0]

PR for a death ray? Sheesh.

You should read the definition of nonlethal

There are times when nonlethal weapons could be valuable in a combat situation, especially in urban warfare
Foreign or domestic?

In America, there is no such thing as a domestic combat situation

Sounds like they're still in the research stage. You want to test military hardware on our own civilians without proper safety procedures?

I already demonstrated that the weapon has already been deployed and that there is no suggestion of "testing" it on Americans.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You should read the definition of nonlethal

Anything non-lethal can become lethal if accidentally or deliberately misused. You could probably beat someone to death with the Sunday edition of the New York Times if you put some effort into it.

In America, there is no such thing as a domestic combat situation

Then there's no call to use military hardware on US citizens.

I already demonstrated that the weapon has already been deployed and that there is no suggestion of "testing" it on Americans.

No, just in "using" it on Americans. Good PR, huh?

 

[MachZer0]

Anything non-lethal can become lethal if accidentally or deliberately misused. You could probably beat someone to death with the Sunday edition of the New York Times if you put some effort into it.

Then I guess the chow halls are test centers as well since anything in the chow hall could be accidentally or deliberately poisoned or contaminated. And since the same kind of food is sold to civilians, the military is apparently already testing it om American citizens. How far should we carry this fantasy?

Then there's no call to use military hardware on US citizens.

Sure there is, for crowd control. And by the way, constantly referring to it as military hardware is hyperbole

No, just in "using" it on Americans. Good PR, huh?

That's what he said

 

[Nathan Poe]

Then I guess the chow halls are test centers as well since anything in the chow hall could be accidentally or deliberately poisoned or contaminated. And since the same kind of food is sold to civilians, the military is apparently already testing it om American citizens. How far should we carry this fantasy?

My mistake. I didn't realize that there's no way for a microwave emitter to be accidentally or deliberately misused, or cause injury.

Sure there is, for crowd control. And by the way, constantly referring to it as military hardware is hyperbole

Designed by the military, paid for by the military, to be used by the military. Would you prefer I called it a kitchen utensil?

That's what he said

And we could fly a A-10 Thunderbolt through the gaping holes in his logic.

If the point is to generate good domestic PR, zapping our own people is hardly going to do the job. Generating positive foreign PR is going to take more than a new toy from the Air Force -- what's the point of subduing someone without injury if the odds are they're just going to be hauled off to a secret prison to be waterboarded?

 

[MachZer0]

My mistake. I didn't realize that there's no way for a microwave emitter to be accidentally or deliberately misused, or cause injury

Designed by the military, paid for by the military, to be used by the military. Would you prefer I called it a kitchen utensil?.

As if this would be the first piece of dual use equipment. Remember that HUmmer you saw on the highway? There's actually a TV show that exclusively highlights equipment designed for the military and converted for civilian use.

And we could fly a A-10 Thunderbolt through the gaping holes in his logic.

If the point is to generate good domestic PR, zapping our own people is hardly going to do the job. Generating positive foreign PR is going to take more than a new toy from the Air Force -- what's the point of subduing someone without injury if the odds are they're just going to be hauled off to a secret prison to be waterboarded?

More hyperbole which does not address the situation at all. The Secretary's point was that we will avoid international criticism for using the weapon on foreign soil if we demonstrate that we believe it to be safe by using it for our own domestic control situations. I don't think that is so difficult to understand

 

[Nathan Poe]

As if this would be the first piece of dual use equipment. Remember that HUmmer you saw on the highway? There's actually a TV show that exclusively highlights equipment designed for the military and converted for civilian use.

That doesn't include weaponry, now does it?

More hyperbole which does not address the situation at all. The Secretary's point was that we will avoid international criticism for using the weapon on foreign soil if we demonstrate that we believe it to be safe by using it for our own domestic control situations. I don't think that is so difficult to understand

The point is that the US is already up to its eyebrows in international criticism for, among other things, its foreign policy, its war effory, and itssanctioning and use of torture. Do you really think that trotting out a new toy and saying, "See, it's safe! We even use it on our own people!" is going to assuage that, or exacerbate it?

I don't think that it is so difficult to understand that if the goal is to preserve (or reclaim) US credibility, this is like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

 

[MachZer0]

That doesn't include weaponry, now does it?

Sure it does

The point is that the US is already up to its eyebrows in international criticism

Then a little PR won't hurt

for, among other things, its foreign policy, its war effory, and itssanctioning and use of torture.

Thee's a different thread for that discussion

Do you really think that trotting out a new toy

If you think it;s a toy, why are you so concerned about it?

I don't think that it is so difficult to understand that if the goal is to preserve (or reclaim) US credibility, this is like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

Sorry, but your point got lost on me when you confused the topic here with the torture debate. But that's how hyperbole and appeals to emotion work, they confuse the topic.

 

[christalee4]

Since Americans are apparently not willing to pay more taxes, in spite of being involved in a SO CALLED WAR ON TERRORISM, nor willing to sacrifice in terms of other areas, I can't see why the heck not Americans can't experience a little eyeball-frying experimentation in the name of FIGHTING THE WAR ON TERROR, just so that things are done right - for a change.

 

[MachZer0]

Since Americans are apparently not willing to pay more taxes, in spite of being involved in a SO CALLED WAR ON TERRORISM, nor willing to sacrifice in terms of other areas, I can't see why the heck not Americans can't experience a little eyeball-frying experimentation in the name of FIGHTING THE WAR ON TERROR, just so that things are done right - for a change.

That's the spirit

 

[Nathan Poe]

Sorry, but your point got lost on me when you confused the topic here with the torture debate. But that's how hyperbole and appeals to emotion work, they confuse the topic.

Then why does the US need a PR boost? What could we possibly have done to hurt our credibility?

 

[Nathan Poe]

That's the spirit

Would you step in front of the beam for your country?

 

[christalee4]

Yes, apply a little Mach into your patriotic spirit and open your eyeballs to accept the beam of truth...

 

[MachZer0]

Would you step in front of the beam for your country?

Probably not, but the Secretary wasn't asking for volunteers, he was promoting police action against those who are violating the law. I don't place myself in a position to be dispersed for acting illegally

 

[Nathan Poe]

Yes, apply a little Mach into your patriotic spirit and open your eyeballs to accept the beam of truth...

It's amusing that even if we accept Wynne's (and Mach's) statements at face value, that this really is part of some sort of PR campaign (although who we're trying to reassure is still something of a conundrum), how our Military, rather than take the necessary steps themselves to assure the international community, is looking to rope innocent civilians into serving as lab rats/poster children for their latest invention.

Is there no sense of personal responsibility or accountability in the Bush regime? Even Dr. Jekyll had the decency to test his formula on himself.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Probably not, but the Secretary wasn't asking for volunteers, he was promoting police action against those who are violating the law. I don't place myself in a position to be dispersed for acting illegally

So which police departments are going to get Air Force weaponry?

 

[MachZer0]

So which police departments are going to get Air Force weaponry?

Civilian police departments

 

[Nathan Poe]

Civilian police departments

Where? Which areas are expected to get some civil unrest which would necessitate a demonstration for such a device?

 

[MachZer0]

Where? Which areas are expected to get some civil unrest which would necessitate a demonstration for such a device?

Not having a crystal ball, I would have to say whichever cities request it. Isn't that the way it usually works?