Understanding some reasons some had to leave a church and helping them

[Halbhh]

At times you may find a chance to talk with someone who has left a church, and isn't yet having returned to church somewhere, and so I think it helps to hear from some why, and there are different reasons of course, but some reasons are more common. So, becasue I heard a bit of this program below the other day, I found the podcast source so I could hear more, and some may want to hear more on why many churches have had less attending.
(yes, there is more than one situation and more than one reason, including both bigger reasons but also specific to a church reasons, and we can be ready for all of those)

Some who have left churches do believe, they have faith, and so that's different from someone that left yet says they don't believe (which may or may not be the reality deeper down below ordinary consciousness down in their heart, further down under the level of ordinary intellectual consciousness...). It can help though to be aware some people (not all, but many) have left for some specific thing that happens, even for a very good reason sometimes, and then how we talk with them will be different from someone who simply needs to hear the gospel in a more real way....

So, this is addressing many different aspects, including big picture things, and study/polling also:

This is from the NPR program "On Point", which is just a public radio general interest program that looks at various contemporary topics in depth, based in Boston, and this particular program below is an interview of 2 authors who have been studying why people have left churches.

About 40 million Americans have left churches and other religious institutions in the last 25 years.

For some, the decision is rooted in deep pain. But for the majority, their reasons for leaving are a lot more mundane than you'd expect.

“Most people have left for really pedestrian reasons. Like, I moved; attendance was inconvenient; or, say, family change," Michael Graham, co-author of "The Great Dechurching" says.

So, what does that say about the importance of faith in America?

Today, On Point: 'The Great dechurching.'

The link has both the recording of the radio program, and a transcript for those that prefer to read.

'The great dechurching': Why so many Americans are leaving their churches

About 40 million Americans have stopped attending a place of worship in the past 25 years. What’s driving it, and what does it tell us about the importance of faith in America?

www.wbur.org

 

[Halbhh]

There are interesting bits also along the way in the program.

"[In] 1776, I think it was only 17% of people in the colonies that were attending churches regularly."

 

[Halbhh]

Today about 40% attend at least once a month:

• 20% of Americans attend church every week (Gallup)
• 41% of Americans are in monthly church attendance or more (Gallup)

So, that's more than twice the rate in the population attending than back in 1776. Pretty interesting.

 

[Halbhh]

Great insight:

A new competing religion is workism.

Here's how I think that sounds, that competing other religion:

"Hello, nice to meet you. What do you do?"

"I'm a dentist."

or
"I'm an accountant."
"I'm a contractor."

-----
Notice we ask that. And we want to know who someone is, and they answer that they are an accountant or such.....

It's not at all bad to find out what someone does for a living, and maybe we could visit their business, like if they are a dentist.... That's fine.

But if we are asking: "Tell me about yourself."

Then....

What if instead of someone saying:

"I'm a inventory manager."

....what would it be like if we lived in a world where someone would answer "what do you do?" with:

"I'm a new follower of Christ."

or

"I'm attending St. Mary's and am getting involved in a bible study."

 

[Daniel Marsh]

At times you may find a chance to talk with someone who has left a church, and isn't yet having returned to church somewhere, and so I think it helps to hear from some why, and there are different reasons of course, but some reasons are more common. So, becasue I heard a bit of this program below the other day, I found the podcast source so I could hear more, and some may want to hear more on why many churches have had less attending.
(yes, there is more than one situation and more than one reason, including both bigger reasons but also specific to a church reasons, and we can be ready for all of those)

Some who have left churches do believe, they have faith, and so that's different from someone that left yet says they don't believe (which may or may not be the reality deeper down below ordinary consciousness down in their heart, further down under the level of ordinary intellectual consciousness...). It can help though to be aware some people (not all, but many) have left for some specific thing that happens, even for a very good reason sometimes, and then how we talk with them will be different from someone who simply needs to hear the gospel in a more real way....

So, this is addressing many different aspects, including big picture things, and study/polling also:

This is from the NPR program "On Point", which is just a public radio general interest program that looks at various contemporary topics in depth, based in Boston, and this particular program below is an interview of 2 authors who have been studying why people have left churches.

About 40 million Americans have left churches and other religious institutions in the last 25 years.

For some, the decision is rooted in deep pain. But for the majority, their reasons for leaving are a lot more mundane than you'd expect.

“Most people have left for really pedestrian reasons. Like, I moved; attendance was inconvenient; or, say, family change," Michael Graham, co-author of "The Great Dechurching" says.

So, what does that say about the importance of faith in America?

Today, On Point: 'The Great dechurching.'

The link has both the recording of the radio program, and a transcript for those that prefer to read.

'The great dechurching': Why so many Americans are leaving their churches

About 40 million Americans have stopped attending a place of worship in the past 25 years. What’s driving it, and what does it tell us about the importance of faith in America?

www.wbur.org

The only way I know to bring someone back is by personal relationships. Odds are those who hurt them have died or left the church too.

 

[1Tonne]

Many people leave because they do not have a strong root. If they did, then they would stay with their current church or find another church if they were not happy with their current one. In the parable of the sower, the sower throws the seed on stoney soil, and it sprouts up. As Jesus explains the parable, He says that it is received with joy, but then when persecution or temptation comes, they wither away.
I believe that many believers in the church have a very weak root. Even people who have been there for many years. This is because when most people say the Gospel, they say it in such a way that they do not offend anyone. We want as many people as possible to come to church and so we tell all the good parts of the Gospel, but we minimise the bad parts. So, we say that if we put our faith in God, we will be blessed. That we will feel comforted. That God loves us so much. That we will have health, wealth and happiness. We do not point out the hard or offensive parts. If we do point out the offensive parts, then we only skim them.
We need to speak more about the hard offensive parts. That we have sinned and are worthy of death and that because God is just, those who are worthy of death will be thrown into the lake of fire. If people saw their sin truly for what it is, then they would see their great need for a saviour. They would run to the saviour and want to stay with Him. They will see that they cannot make it on their own. Then when persecution or temptation happens, they will automatically think, "If I choose to step away from God, then I am in danger of His wrath. What an awful thing that would be."

Jesus was a great example of showing people love. Even if it meant that he had to push the hot button by showing them their sin.
He said to the Samaritan woman, “Go and get your husband.” When she had had many husbands and the one she was with then, was not her husband. She was an adulteress. So, He pushed the hot button. Or, when the rich young ruler said, “I'll follow you”, Jesus replies, “Sell everything you have”. Wow, how hard would that be for someone who loved their money? Jesus pushed the hot button again. Or the pharisees said, “We're children of Abraham”, and Jesus says, actually you're children of Satan because you can't stop sinning.
If we truly love the lost, we will tell them of the condemnation that they are under. We will not wait. We will do as Jesus did and push the hot button. We will show them how they have sinned against God. Their eternity is at stake.

Jesus also pointed out that the world hated Him because He showed them their sin. And, if we follow His example, then the world will hate us too. Just as it hated Paul and the disciples. It will not love us.
Sadly, many churches have chosen to be acceptable, and they do not want to push the hot button. They have chosen friendships over what Jesus did. They do not speak about God's justice and His judgement to come, or the punishment for those that have sinned against Him, and they only skim our sin. And this is done with the intent that the message will not scare people off. It will not push the hot button. It will not cause the world to hate them. These churches want to be loved by the world. But this results in a weak root within the believer.

"Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed." Proverbs 27:5 (A "love" which stays hidden because it lacks the courage to call out sin or danger is a weak form of love.)
"Woe to you when all the people speak well of you;..." Luke 6:26 (If we are always saying nice things that do not offend, then everyone will speak well of you. We need to step out and push the hot button just as Jesus did.
"Through the Law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20. (Use the 10 commandments to show people how they have sinned against God)
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 9:10. (Once people see they have sinned against God, they will then understand that they are under His judgement. And the only way to be saved then is through the cross. They will then run to Him and stay with Him)

 

[Halbhh]

It's true that if we can realize we are like the debtor forgiven the debt of 10,000 bags of gold (Matthew 18:21-35), then we can arrive to the very good place of the woman in Luke 7:47, which is so good to come to. Ultimately Christ tells us in Matthew 7:24-27 what makes us endure. It's not only to honestly realize the truth about ourselves (a needed step), but in the long run we are strengthened and endure if we "hear" His words, and

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

And so here we learn whether we will endure the storms that come in life -- which entirely depends we hear on whether or not we do as Christ taught us -- that we love one another, forgive our brothers and sisters, care about each other, love our enemy, do to others as we would have others do to us... If we do these things, as fruits of dwelling in/abiding in/looking to Christ (John 15:1-17), then we will make it.

So I think that hearing the full gospel is a crucial first step, and then over the years of time that most of us have next, it's these further steps we all who remain here over time must do over time that will determine where we are in the end.

Many people leave because they do not have a strong root. If they did, then they would stay with their current church or find another church if they were not happy with their current one. In the parable of the sower, the sower throws the seed on stoney soil, and it sprouts up. As Jesus explains the parable, He says that it is received with joy, but then when persecution or temptation comes, they wither away.
I believe that many believers in the church have a very weak root. Even people who have been there for many years. This is because when most people say the Gospel, they say it in such a way that they do not offend anyone. We want as many people as possible to come to church and so we tell all the good parts of the Gospel, but we minimise the bad parts. So, we say that if we put our faith in God, we will be blessed. That we will feel comforted. That God loves us so much. That we will have health, wealth and happiness. We do not point out the hard or offensive parts. If we do point out the offensive parts, then we only skim them.
We need to speak more about the hard offensive parts. That we have sinned and are worthy of death and that because God is just, those who are worthy of death will be thrown into the lake of fire. If people saw their sin truly for what it is, then they would see their great need for a saviour. They would run to the saviour and want to stay with Him. They will see that they cannot make it on their own. Then when persecution or temptation happens, they will automatically think, "If I choose to step away from God, then I am in danger of His wrath. What an awful thing that would be."

Jesus was a great example of showing people love. Even if it meant that he had to push the hot button by showing them their sin.
He said to the Samaritan woman, “Go and get your husband.” When she had had many husbands and the one she was with then, was not her husband. She was an adulteress. So, He pushed the hot button. Or, when the rich young ruler said, “I'll follow you”, Jesus replies, “Sell everything you have”. Wow, how hard would that be for someone who loved their money? Jesus pushed the hot button again. Or the pharisees said, “We're children of Abraham”, and Jesus says, actually you're children of Satan because you can't stop sinning.
If we truly love the lost, we will tell them of the condemnation that they are under. We will not wait. We will do as Jesus did and push the hot button. We will show them how they have sinned against God. Their eternity is at stake.

Jesus also pointed out that the world hated Him because He showed them their sin. And, if we follow His example, then the world will hate us too. Just as it hated Paul and the disciples. It will not love us.
Sadly, many churches have chosen to be acceptable, and they do not want to push the hot button. They have chosen friendships over what Jesus did. They do not speak about God's justice and His judgement to come, or the punishment for those that have sinned against Him, and they only skim our sin. And this is done with the intent that the message will not scare people off. It will not push the hot button. It will not cause the world to hate them. These churches want to be loved by the world. But this results in a weak root within the believer.

"Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed." Proverbs 27:5 (A "love" which stays hidden because it lacks the courage to call out sin or danger is a weak form of love.)
"Woe to you when all the people speak well of you;..." Luke 6:26 (If we are always saying nice things that do not offend, then everyone will speak well of you. We need to step out and push the hot button just as Jesus did.
"Through the Law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20. (Use the 10 commandments to show people how they have sinned against God)
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 9:10. (Once people see they have sinned against God, they will then understand that they are under His judgement. And the only way to be saved then is through the cross. They will then run to Him and stay with Him)