Troubling passages about the return of Christ

Achilles6129

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There are several very troubling passages in the gospels about the end times that seem to indicate a time of overwhelming evil. I'm not going to mince words here: They seem to indicate a time when there is literally no one (maybe only a few) righteous left on the planet. Consider:

" 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so too it will be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking, and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all of them. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed all of them 30 —it will be like that on the day that the Son of Man is revealed." Lu. 17:26-30 (NRSV)

Now the usual interpretation here is that Christ is talking about the suddenness of the return, and that is true. But there is another aspect here which Christ leaves unmentioned. Could it be that Christ is also referring to the wickedness of both of these generations? The fact that in each of them, there was only one righteous man?

The point is solidified if we look at what Christ says directly after:

"And yet, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”" Lu. 18:8b (NRSV)

The answer to this question is meant to be "no." This is troubling, indeed, as it supports our deductions from Luke 17. But there are other passages as well:

"12 And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved." Mt. 24:12-13 (NRSV)

Here Christ predicts an increase in lawlessness at the time of the end. There is another very troubling passage in 2 Tim. 3 where the Apostle Paul excorciates both those inside and outside of Christianity:

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people." 2 Tim. 3:1-5 (NIV)

I like the NIV translation best here because I think it captures the essence of v.1 more than most other translations (it translates "chalepos" as "terrible" which I think is a much more accurate translation than other versions). The word translated "terrible" above is as follows:

Greek Lexicon :: G5467 (KJV)

The word chalepos is Strong's #5467 and means "hard to do, take or approach; hard to bear, troublesome, dangerous; harsh, fierce, savage."

The interesting thing about the word is that it is only used one other time in the NT, and that of demoniacs:

"And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, G5467 so that no man might pass by that way." Mt. 8:28

This picture combined with the picture given us in the book of Revelation paints a very bleak outlook for the last days indeed. A few examples will suffice:

"5 They were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them." Rev. 9:5-6 (NRSV)

Notice the length of time they are allowed to torture them - 5 months - quite a long time. That's a long time to induce repentance, but evidently nothing happens. Indeed, at the end of Revelation 9 we read:

"20 The rest of humankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands or give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their fornication or their thefts." Rev. 9:20-21 (NRSV)

"8 The fourth angel poured his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire; 9 they were scorched by the fierce heat, but they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give him glory." Rev. 16:8-9 (NRSV)

"10 The fifth angel poured his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness; people gnawed their tongues in agony, 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, and they did not repent of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11 (NRSV)

Overall, the picture is bleak. Does Christ wait until a time when there is practically no-one righteous left on planet earth to begin the book of Revelation? Based on the above passages, I'd have to say the case is extremely strong. There is also a philosophical question - Why does God allow things to get so bad before he intervenes? He doesn't seem interested in nipping anything in the bud. Just sort of an interesting observation.

Any ideas on the above thoughts?
 

dfw69

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There are several very troubling passages in the gospels about the end times that seem to indicate a time of overwhelming evil. I'm not going to mince words here: They seem to indicate a time when there is literally no one (maybe only a few) righteous left on the planet. Consider:

" 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so too it will be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking, and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all of them. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed all of them 30 —it will be like that on the day that the Son of Man is revealed." Lu. 17:26-30 (NRSV)

Now the usual interpretation here is that Christ is talking about the suddenness of the return, and that is true. But there is another aspect here which Christ leaves unmentioned. Could it be that Christ is also referring to the wickedness of both of these generations? The fact that in each of them, there was only one righteous man?

The point is solidified if we look at what Christ says directly after:

"And yet, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”" Lu. 18:8b (NRSV)

The answer to this question is meant to be "no." This is troubling, indeed, as it supports our deductions from Luke 17. But there are other passages as well:

"12 And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved." Mt. 24:12-13 (NRSV)

Here Christ predicts an increase in lawlessness at the time of the end. There is another very troubling passage in 2 Tim. 3 where the Apostle Paul excorciates both those inside and outside of Christianity:

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people." 2 Tim. 3:1-5 (NIV)

I like the NIV translation best here because I think it captures the essence of v.1 more than most other translations (it translates "chalepos" as "terrible" which I think is a much more accurate translation than other versions). The word translated "terrible" above is as follows:

Greek Lexicon :: G5467 (KJV)

The word chalepos is Strong's #5467 and means "hard to do, take or approach; hard to bear, troublesome, dangerous; harsh, fierce, savage."

The interesting thing about the word is that it is only used one other time in the NT, and that of demoniacs:

"And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, G5467 so that no man might pass by that way." Mt. 8:28

This picture combined with the picture given us in the book of Revelation paints a very bleak outlook for the last days indeed. A few examples will suffice:

"5 They were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them." Rev. 9:5-6 (NRSV)

Notice the length of time they are allowed to torture them - 5 months - quite a long time. That's a long time to induce repentance, but evidently nothing happens. Indeed, at the end of Revelation 9 we read:

"20 The rest of humankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands or give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their fornication or their thefts." Rev. 9:20-21 (NRSV)

"8 The fourth angel poured his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire; 9 they were scorched by the fierce heat, but they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give him glory." Rev. 16:8-9 (NRSV)

"10 The fifth angel poured his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness; people gnawed their tongues in agony, 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, and they did not repent of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11 (NRSV)

Overall, the picture is bleak. Does Christ wait until a time when there is practically no-one righteous left on planet earth to begin the book of Revelation? Based on the above passages, I'd have to say the case is extremely strong. There is also a philosophical question - Why does God allow things to get so bad before he intervenes? He doesn't seem interested in nipping anything in the bud. Just sort of an interesting observation.

Any ideas on the above thoughts?

Some believe lawlessness is one without the law and unrighteousness refers to those who forsake the law...

I believe those righteous ( by faith) will be few...
That those righteous refers to those faithful to Christ laws will be few
Lawlessness is breaking the laws of Christ as well as the laws of god
A righteous man is only righteous by faith in Christ and not of the law

Those that reject Jesus for righteousness remain unrighteous
Not having faith alone in the atonement work of Jesus is unbelief
That the work of the cross is not enough to save ...
Self righteousness always leads to sin

The falling away from the faith are the unrighteous unbelievers
The wicked are those that reject the righteousness of god through faith in Christ
Who will follow a false messiah
Who will persecute the faithful few

Yes the righteous will be few (the righteous being those believing the faith ..that Christ is our righteousness)

And many that have the light will be persecuted and condemned in those days, forcing god mighty hand to come upon them
 
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He is waiting .... until the incoming of the Gentiles are added to His ecclesia

Jesus knows the end from the beginning of all things

And He knows when the last Gentile will turn to Him .... and the time involved will be as long as it takes .... His call

He will wait .... the time element makes no difference to Him .... one saved person is worth it

He also knows the ultimate decision of all humans before their death as to whether they will turn

So His response to all is totally justified

There will be no believers on the earth at the beginning of His coming judgment [His hour (time) of trial]

All of His ecclesia will be made immortal just before [all of His followers from the beginning of human creation]

There will be those who turn to Him during the coming tribulation and He will save them .... however, billions on the earth will be killed in unbelief and lost forever

The same scene like His judgment of the flood

2000 years seems like a long time to a man, however a man lives only a short time

The Lord is not slack in His promise as some men count slackness
 
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man54

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Why isn't anyone troubled by the fact that we all or our times fit the description?
In 20 years the world will be filled with such people!
The end is nigh and everyone that you know that is young enough to be alive in 2030 and doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God and does not repent from their deeds shall go through all that. They will all suffer incredible pain during those 7 years and then some in Hell for a while.
And meanwhile we're told to "not be offensive", to "not be annoying with our religion".
Doesn't that frustrate you?

I know without doubt that God is real and so is Jesus Christ. And if through them there is Truth then all that horror in the Apocalypse is true! And very very soon to come. Without question!

And I've seen the City of light, New Jerusalem-the one that's mentioned at the end. It's so beautiful, you wouldn't believe. It's all this beautiful Light.

Because of us keeping shut, the ones we know that do not believe in God and Jesus will never know this. Will never get to see the light.
Doesn't that bother you?
Are you doing anything for your loved ones?

My best friend had a dream whilst they were performing surgery on her that me and her were talking and we were both dressed in white robes.
And then I heard a testimony of a woman who had a strange experience and saw the same type of Heaven that I saw only at one point she mentions a room where they were making these white shiny robes. They were invisible on one side and white on the other.
Both persons didn't know about the Biblical reference to White robes.

We will be those dressed in white robes. Those who are saved. Because we believe and we repent.

Then isn't there something more forceful that we can do for others? They might hate us and berate us but it's only when you show how strongly you believe in something that people follow you!

I have so many atheist/muslim/enlightment bul-l-sh-it friends that knowing all this kills me. I mean, it's so sweet to say anything about Jesus but because you get a rejection as a response, it makes your stomach bitter.
 
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Yesterday987G

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"20 The rest of humankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands or give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their fornication or their thefts." Rev. 9:20-21 (NRSV)"

I think it is interesting that we, as a society, are still worshiping stone and wood. Consider what a house is made of..........
 
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Anto9us

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My thoughts are about Lot - my gosh - Lot was the GOOD GUY of that story - yet he was willing to have his virgin-daughters gang-raped instead of the visitors that he didn't know were really angels

That's RIGHTEOUS LOT? That is JUST LOT?

In the days of Lot - if he was the best they had - the society was a super-bad bunch of rapists
 
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Achilles6129

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"20 The rest of humankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands or give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their fornication or their thefts." Rev. 9:20-21 (NRSV)"

I think it is interesting that we, as a society, are still worshiping stone and wood. Consider what a house is made of..........

Do you think that the idols of stone/wood are houses? What else could they be....or what else do you think they mean?

Isn't it interesting how in Revelation they never ever repent? Why do you suppose that that is?

My thoughts are about Lot - my gosh - Lot was the GOOD GUY of that story - yet he was willing to have his virgin-daughters gang-raped instead of the visitors that he didn't know were really angels

That's RIGHTEOUS LOT? That is JUST LOT?

In the days of Lot - if he was the best they had - the society was a super-bad bunch of rapists

It's obvious why Lot offered up his daughters - because he considered the men who came to him to be his sons. Lot sought to minimize the amount of evil about to take place, so he didn't want there to be any homosexuality. You forget that in Scripture everyone is equal - one's own biological family isn't considered superior to anyone else.
 
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coraline

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The preterist will eventually find out that this theology is on the wrong road ..... in one way or another

Hopefully this discovery, if it comes, will be sooner rather than later

It is the Lord who will decide for those who embrace it

I disagree. In fact, preterist members are increasing.

There's no argument for that fact. Truth matters to all Christians ( & others too for that matter- who may be saved in the future)

It's like I taught my daughters after 10 years of study of Eschatology.

"Don't hope for what we already have in Christ. Be fulfilled & thankful in your salvation!"

But I have no problem with Christians saying "when He returns"

I'm not that religious that I feel the need to be ruthless about it.

Love & peace :)
 
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