Transgender efforts reach the US State Department

[A2SG]

I haven't seen anyone scaremongering about zir/xem/cake/cat pronouns here.

Maybe not those specific pronouns, but it seems to me there have been a lot of posts that purport to claim some overreaching "trans agenda" that seems to begin with pronouns and ends, somehow, with world domination or something.

Or, I dunno, maybe I just don't get how trans people using bathrooms is a disaster for society.

I just told you something about her.

And I know literally nothing else. So, what about her?

If the plumber or bagger commit a serious crime they will go to a prison that correlates with their sex. If a transwoman goes to prison they have the potential to be sent to a women's prison where they can cause problems for the female inmates, as has already happened.

What problems, exactly? And what do you suggest as a solution for those problems?

And why should that solution involve any trans person who hasn't been arrested or incarcerated?

I see that as going forwards.

I'm sure you do.

No one is asking you to make it your responsibility to ensure everyone is comfortable all the time, just that you support the majority of people who are uncomfortable at the idea of having biological men in women's spaces.

I don't support anything of the kind. If you're uncomfortable about that...or anything at all...that's your problem to deal with. Unless the person using the bathroom is committing a crime or directly causing a problem of some sort (for the record, I don't consider you being uncomfortable that the other person exists to be a problem they directly caused), I would support a "live and let live" approach.

I seem to remember, not that long ago, being in the men's room of a Target (or some such place) where a woman came in with her toddler son to let him go to the bathroom. She explained that the women's room was full (not that I asked). It didn't bother me at all.

You don't need to know them to have an opinion on them.

Maybe so...but knowing nothing whatsoever would only elicit an ignorant, uninformed opinion. I would need to know something about them to have an informed opinion. Oh, and I'd probably need to care a tiny little bit as well.

I don't know Clint Eastwood. I'm not a actor, so I don't know how well they can act. But if someone asked me if it was okay for Clint Eastwood to play a specific role, I would say yes.

Okay.

So would you be okay with Stefonknee Wolscht playing with little children in a swimming pool or Rachel Dolezal starring as a black historical figure in a movie? Yes or no.

See above. I still don't see any reason why I should care one way or the other.

Other people lie?!

Shocking, I know.

It's a deliberate attempt to spread false information about a minority.

Oh wow!! That's never happened before, ever in the history of humanity!!!!!

Trans ideology impeding other people's lives.

I'd say the impeding has been greatly exaggerated. To a massive degree.

But, I willingly admit, that's my opinion.

Yet you can't bring yourself to say "Trans women are not biological woman and therefore should not occupy biological women's spaces". A phrase that doesn't conflict with either of those two facts.

Who should or should not occupy biological women's spaces isn't something I get to decide; plus which, my opinion on the subject is less than worthless, and not in any way needed or wanted.

Because I said it required that. My hypothetical, remember.

But my dream job. Thing is, I'm not looking for a job as a professional oath taker, it's not my field. Plus which, I already have a job.

So you randomly decided to bring up a random celebrity just to tell me they may or may not agree with me about sex being unchangeable.
You know who else might disagree with me? Anyone.

Thing is, people can have medical procedures that alter their body in a way that allows them to live as their preferred sex. If that's good enough for them, it's certainly good enough for me.

If you want to debate whether or not those medical procedures are sufficient to allow a complete, 100% alteration to a different sex, you'll have to take it up with someone who has sufficient medical knowledge to discuss the subject. That ain't me.

Which is?

Pronoun usage.

That should be your advice to trans people when others refuse to use their pronouns.

They can do that if they want to, with or without my advising them. Further, if they feel they are being harassed at work, they have the right to speak to HR about that, and have HR deal with the issue. And that goes for everyone, trans or otherwise.

It seems apparent to me in this last post that other people's suffering doesn't matter to you unless it's trans people.

What's apparent to you is your concern, not mine. I know what matters to me better than you do.

You don't need to work in HR to come up with a possible solution.

True. I can always guess.

Wait, I thought you didn't work in HR? How did you come up with that possible solution?

I guessed.

-- A2SG, see how that works?

 

[o_mlly]

Did you think I was doing something different?

You tell me. I can only read what you post. Did you mean something different?

This doesn't make any sense, neither believes nor disbelieves?

What’s The Difference Between Atheism And Agnosticism?

Atheism and Agnosticism get mixed up a lot when the question of divine existence comes up. How familiar are you with the difference between them, pray tell?

www.dictionary.com

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine.​

Saying you're open to the "possibility" is ridiculous.

No. The bulk of human knowledge remains in the realm of doubt. Some knowledge possesses a higher probability of truth than others but all knowledge has a future. A new observation or more cogent reasoning will alter our understanding of reality. Closed minds, those not open to that possibility, are irrational.

This topic would be an interesting one to pursue probably in another forum and certainly in another thread.

 

[o_mlly]

But everybody most definitely understands Him as male.

I include myself in "everybody" so that ends that claim.

And that it was said we are made in His image (obviously not meant to be taken literally ...

Yes, literally. Only man possesses the faculties of reason and free will as does God.

New thread, if you please.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You tell me. I can only read what you post. Did you mean something different?

What’s The Difference Between Atheism And Agnosticism?

Atheism and Agnosticism get mixed up a lot when the question of divine existence comes up. How familiar are you with the difference between them, pray tell?

www.dictionary.com

In contrast, the word agnostic refers to a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine.​

I'm just going to erase the part about knowledge since the definition clearly says belief.

You can believe in something.

You can disbelieve in something.

What's this third option the agnostic inhabits?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Actually the layers were laid down by the receding flood waters in a matter of weeks & months, which may tie in with transgender policy because the US govt allows, and even promotes evolution and billions of years in schools and the nation.

Um, no. Not only is your "geology" wrong, but neither the age of the Earth, nor the factuality of evolution are in anyway related to transgender policy.

Therefore people think they are not accountable to any God and that we evolved from some lower primates, though they can't figure out if it was a few hundred thousand years ago, or 1.2 million, and now they are saying human ancestors actually did live with the dinosaurs, so they can't make up their theoretical minds.

There are plenty of people who think they are "accountable to God" and accept the facts of evolution, the age of the Universe, and the deposition of geological layers.

"Researchers discovered humans' oldest primate ancestors in Montana fossils that date back over 65 million years."

"A new study published in the journal Current Biology says that human ancestors did live with dinosaurs for a short time before the beasts went extinct. The study says that early mammals evolved before a massive asteroid hit the planet 66 million years ago and therefore lived briefly with dinosaurs."

"Homo erectus lived from about 1.8 Ma to about 70,000 years ago – which would indicate that they were probably wiped out by the Toba catastrophe; however, nearby H. floresiensis survived it. The early phase of H. erectus, from 1.8 to 1.25 Ma, is considered by some to be a separate species"

"Currently, there is fossil evidence for at least three species of hominins occurring at around 2.6-2.5 Ma: Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus garhi, and Paranthropus aethiopicus; H. habilis was established by around 2.4-2.3"

"Australopithecus africanus was once considered to be a direct ancestor of modern humans but new finds have challenged this position."

As you can see, when you can't make up your mind on origins and constantly change your theories, might as well change genders too, because after all, change and confusion is the name of the game.

Your failure to understand how science works things out does not imply "gender confusion" is a consequence of the scientific method.

See, there: I tied it in with State Dept & transgender policy!! Yay, back on topic!

An utter failure to reconnect, but let's see if you can get back to the topic.

 

[o_mlly]

I'm just going to erase the part about knowledge since the definition clearly says belief.

You can believe in something.

You can disbelieve in something.

What's this third option the agnostic inhabits?

One who does not believe in the truth of the knowledge they possess has a serious cognitive problem. Truth being knowledge that conforms to reality.

The agnostic suspends his belief. AKA, admitted ignorance on the matter.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The agnostic suspends his belief.

This is a state of disbelief.

Isn't it? A lack of belief, for whatever reason is a lack of belief.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Um, no. Not only is your "geology" wrong, but neither the age of the Earth, nor the factuality of evolution are in anyway related to transgender policy.

Evolution in mammals depends upon sexual dimorphism...male and female.

There's no third option no matter what gender theorists claim.

 

[o_mlly]

This is a state of disbelief.

I think not.

The agnostic also suspends disbelief. So he is neither in a state of belief or disbelief.

He is, in a sense, "gender neutral" as to the issue at hand.

How would you distinguish the atheist from the agnostic?

 

[Bradskii]

I think not.

The agnostic also suspends disbelief. So he is neither in a state of belief or disbelief.

He is, in a sense, "gender neutral" as to the issue at hand.

How would you distinguish the atheist from the agnostic?

If I may...

If someone asks me if I think someone in the street has a dragon in their basement, then I'll definitely say no. That's the equivalent to the atheist position in my opinion.

If they ask me if I can categorically state that no-one has a dragon in their basement, then I'd say no again. There may be an insignificant chance that in some way someone has what can be reasonably described as a dragon. That's the equivalent to the agnostic position in my opinion.

So I am both when it comes to the question of the existence of gods.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

I am saddened, and sometimes exceedingly tremble and quake over the condition of many here on this forum, but am glad you are here so that you will know the Truth of Christ. That goes for many many more I meet in the world too.
So dreadfully lost, and not acknowledging they are sinners, and they must have a substitute, for they are in dire need of Jesus Christ the righteous, aho ONLY is able to clothe them with HIS righteousness.
My righteous now is not mine, but His. Any former righteousness I had was as filthy rags in His right, and that goes for ALL people.
I don't want to see any of you ultimately cast into hell for your unbelief and rejection of Christ.
Now the US State Dept has this to say, thus I bring it back on topic!
"Each year on November 20, the world recognizes Transgender Day of Remembrance – a day to commemorate the transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming persons who are targeted and killed for living authentically and courageously. Trans individuals are a part of every country, every culture, and every faith tradition. The United States honors Transgender Day of Remembrance to affirm the humanity and human rights of transgender persons globally."
Of course they are "human" - and I agree people shouldn't be beaten or killed. The issue is when it affects religious freedoms, or when they force their agenda on children in schools

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

If I may...

If someone asks me if I think someone in the street has a dragon in their basement, then I'll definitely say no. That's the equivalent to the atheist position in my opinion.

If they ask me if I can categorically state that no-one has a dragon in their basement, then I'd say no again. There may be an insignificant chance that in some way someone has what can be reasonably described as a dragon. That's the equivalent to the agnostic position in my opinion.

So I am both when it comes to the question of the existence of gods.

I believe this may actually be in a basement, and it's name includes "Dragon"

 

[Pommer]

I am saddened, and sometimes exceedingly tremble and quake over the condition of many here on this forum, but am glad you are here so that you will know the Truth of Christ. That goes for many many more I meet in the world too.
So dreadfully lost, and not acknowledging they are sinners, and they must have a substitute, for they are in dire need of Jesus Christ the righteous, aho ONLY is able to clothe them with HIS righteousness.
My righteous now is not mine, but His. Any former righteousness I had was as filthy rags in His right, and that goes for ALL people.
I don't want to see any of you ultimately cast into hell for your unbelief and rejection of Christ.
Now the US State Dept has this to say, thus I bring it back on topic!
"Each year on November 20, the world recognizes Transgender Day of Remembrance – a day to commemorate the transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming persons who are targeted and killed for living authentically and courageously. Trans individuals are a part of every country, every culture, and every faith tradition. The United States honors Transgender Day of Remembrance to affirm the humanity and human rights of transgender persons globally."
Of course they are "human" - and I agree people shouldn't be beaten or killed. The issue is when it affects religious freedoms, or when they force their agenda on children in schools

If there is a god who needs me away from him after I shuffle off of this mortal coil, how is that any of my business?

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

If there is a god who needs me away from him after I shuffle off of this mortal coil, how is that any of my business?

God will only "need you away from Him" is you die in your sins, and since sin cannot be in His presence or His kingdom, then you'll be lost forever. It is certainly your business, and I do see your profile says you're a Deist. God does truly work in the affairs of men, and is why He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son Jesus that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life: that believing involves more than just mental recognition, it is a faith & trust that involves actions that respond to the repentance he will grant you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think not.

The agnostic also suspends disbelief. So he is neither in a state of belief or disbelief.

Well don't tell me what that state isn't....

Tell me what it is...what's the third option here between belief and disbelief?

Literally anything I can think of that wouldn't be belief is going to land in the disbelief category.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Anything short of belief is disbelief.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He is, in a sense, "gender neutral" as to the issue at hand.

How would you distinguish the atheist from the agnostic?

Again, since all definitions point to belief....not knowledge or knowing....not certainty....

The agnostic is an atheist afraid of announcing their disbelief. A person who doesn't believe but fearing ostracization or difficult arguments to consider....half-heartedly leaves the possibility open to being convinced, but isn't.

We're all open to being convinced. I promise you, if there's some soul that ascends to an afterlife...and upon reaching it some blue guy with 6 arms announcing himself as lord Shiva tells these Christians he's sending them back to earth as wallabies...there's going to be a lot of people convinced they got it all wrong....

If God were to appear before me and demonstrates his whole universe from nothing magic....I'm gonna be pretty convinced.

If however, you don't think something like this is going to happen to you and oblivion awaits...and nothing more....congratulations you're an atheist.

 

[rjs330]

I am saddened, and sometimes exceedingly tremble and quake over the condition of many here on this forum, but am glad you are here so that you will know the Truth of Christ. That goes for many many more I meet in the world too.
So dreadfully lost, and not acknowledging they are sinners, and they must have a substitute, for they are in dire need of Jesus Christ the righteous, aho ONLY is able to clothe them with HIS righteousness.
My righteous now is not mine, but His. Any former righteousness I had was as filthy rags in His right, and that goes for ALL people.
I don't want to see any of you ultimately cast into hell for your unbelief and rejection of Christ.
Now the US State Dept has this to say, thus I bring it back on topic!
"Each year on November 20, the world recognizes Transgender Day of Remembrance – a day to commemorate the transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming persons who are targeted and killed for living authentically and courageously. Trans individuals are a part of every country, every culture, and every faith tradition. The United States honors Transgender Day of Remembrance to affirm the humanity and human rights of transgender persons globally."
Of course they are "human" - and I agree people shouldn't be beaten or killed. The issue is when it affects religious freedoms, or when they force their agenda on children in schools

The interesting thing is this ideological crowd.believa silence is violence. If you don't support their agenda and desires then you are committing violence toward them and you might as well beat them.

We've pretty much said, over and over again, if you want to wear a dress if you are a dude then feel free. You want to call yourself a woman, then feel free to do so.

Just don't impose that on others. And for heavens sake leave the kids alone. The WPATH files are damning to this agenda showing how unethical and untruthful the medical community has been on this subject if they have followed WPATH guidelines.

 

[rjs330]

If there is a god who needs me away from him after I shuffle off of this mortal coil, how is that any of my business?

It's not about your "business" my friend. It's about your opportunity. An opportunity to recognize your need for a savior so you won't have to stay separated and instead enjoy the fruits of redemption. After all, our lives hear are so brief while eternity waits.

All the good things that await are only for those who see their need. You are free to choose now what you wish to believe. But in the end you are not free to choose what comes after. Man we don't want you to miss out.

I know these kinds of threads are challenging because Christians are involved and they often disagree with liberal policies this being in opposition to policies you support. But believe it or not we absolutely care about you and also about transgender people. We WANT them to get the help they need. The first step in finding healing is to recognize we have a problem.

The same goes for the spirit. I would absolutely love to meet you someday and have a cup of coffee. You'd might be surprised, but I think we could be friends.

 

[rjs330]

Again, since all definitions point to belief....not knowledge or knowing....not certainty....

The agnostic is an atheist afraid of announcing their disbelief. A person who doesn't believe but fearing ostracization or difficult arguments to consider....half-heartedly leaves the possibility open to being convinced, but isn't.

We're all open to being convinced. I promise you, if there's some soul that ascends to an afterlife...and upon reaching it some blue guy with 6 arms announcing himself as lord Shiva tells these Christians he's sending them back to earth as wallabies...there's going to be a lot of people convinced they got it all wrong....

If God were to appear before me and demonstrates his whole universe from nothing magic....I'm gonna be pretty convinced.

If however, you don't think something like this is going to happen to you and oblivion awaits...and nothing more....congratulations you're an atheist.

Man, I really hope someday, it doesn't matter when, you'll realize what an opportunity you missed out on to become part of God's family through Christ. Our family is far from perfect and we all know it. But we'd wed live for you to be part of it none the less. We all know we are only who we are because Christ Rose from the grave and gave us something we could never have on our own.

Maybe someday Ana. Maybe some day.

 

[rjs330]

Alright in the mean time let's really help these poor folks who are suffering from such mental health. Cause we are finding there are many reasons why they are going down this path. Most of them have to do with their other issues. And as we have seen through the systematic reviews and through the WPATH files many have been sold a bill of goods.

More and more people and professionals are realizing there have been far too many mistakes made in this area. Therapy first for adults Therapy only for those who are not adults.

And no forceful actions implemented upon people who won't buckle to the agenda.