Topless/Nude Beach?

[Romanseight2005]

Not at all. Any couple who does the same thing the same way year after year is more likely to have mechanical than really interactive and deeply satisfying sex. Or very little sex. Foreplay, special underwear, prolonged nudity and various ways of sexual stimulation, outdoors sex, all involve aspects of the sensual and the erotic, in just the same way as spices, new combinations, special processes and imagination can take eating a meal from mere routine to an elevated gustatory pleasure through enhancing our sensuality.

John
NZ

I would like to address Proverbs 5.

Proverbs 5:18-6:1
8 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer —
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be captivated by her love.
20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress?
Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?

21 For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD,
and he examines all his paths.
22 The evil deeds of a wicked man ensnare him;
the cords of his sin hold him fast.
23 He will die for lack of discipline,
led astray by his own great folly.

Proverbs 6
NIV
be captivated, and kjv says ravished. Here's what the concordance says,
shagah

OT:7686 shagah (shaw-gaw'); a primitive root; to stray (causatively, mislead), usually (figuratively) to mistake, especially (morally) to transgress; by extension (through the idea of intoxication) to reel, (figuratively) be enraptured:
This has the idea of being drawn away, intoxicated, even enraptured by her breasts.

If this isn't erotic love with people who have been married a long time, without bringing in the novel or the forbidden, then I don't know what is.

 

[Johnnz]

It is the cultural forbiddenness against breasts that I first referred to. As a merely cultural prohibition I do not give it biblical authority. That was my only point in using that word.

Are you suggesting that nothing new (the novel) is to take place between husband and wife sexually? Again I was referring (but did not state) that the novel was a component of sexual arousal. Within a marriage the introduction of some variety can be enhancing. And perfectly moral. But an affair with a pretty young thing (a new partner) involves the novel, but immorality.

I used words that can have both moral and immoral applications, but I did not make that clear enough it seems. I was referring to the phenomenon of the erotic, not it's moral value. There are significant differences between what a Christian couple can legitimately engage in erotically and what some non Christian might do. I had assumed you understood that was my position.

John
NZ

 

[Romanseight2005]

Well the problem is that erotic seems to entail so much, that I don't think we can assume anything. I did need for you to clarify that.

Sure a married couple can do new things, no problem, but, the passion, etc. should not be dependent upon novelty, or they will run out of ways to make it new.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quotes by John Z
But social nudity has the capacity to reduce the desire for female nudity that can propel many men into inappropriate content and other bad sex.


Nudity can assist in reducing a major drive for wrong sex, but good, mutually satisfying sex takes application and it is also progressive, requiring mutual learning.

John
Let us assume your theory above is correct.
America is not going to change into a society that has social nudity for all, right now or anytime soon. We have to deal with the reality that we now have.

I would venture to say that most women would not want their husbands to go to nude beaches. I can also assure you that some of those men would visualize one of those nude attractive sexual women sometime and would get sexually aroused without thinking of their wife.

I think that would cause some dissention in the marriage if the wife knew that her husband was sexually excited about another woman. I don’t think that it would be a complete stretch to say that some husbands may visualize that nude woman on the beach as he is having sex with his wife.

I would assume that some of the women here on this forum would agree that their husbands acting in the manner above would cause dissention. Ladies am I right?

 

[Johnnz]

I'm not advocating general nudity. But I do think more, within the home, and in specified places could suffice. We have more than enough 'bad nudity' these days. There is far too much unease in sexual matters. And, traditional Christian teaching upon which much is based, is a bit suspect in my view.

Also, it has been stated several times on this thread that social nudity becomes less arousing with familiarity.

John
NZ

 

[buzzini]

Haha

Some christians dont even know what innocence is. Those are the one who cover nude painting in the church. Thinking they uphold modesty.




Have you not heard Jesus said heaven are of little children? What little children would care if they play with cloth on or off in water? When i was young kids runs free without cloth and no one cares. His calling us all to be like them! If not nude, at least be innocent. Can a Christian claim to have innocence with pure love, yet the sight of nudity quickly turn his/her mind into lust? Yet such consider themselves most holy.......and not worldly!


How have Christians fall away from Eden so full of pride in their fig leaf

 

[Romanseight2005]

John
Let us assume your theory above is correct.
America is not going to change into a society that has social nudity for all, right now or anytime soon. We have to deal with the reality that we now have.

I would venture to say that most women would not want their husbands to go to nude beaches. I can also assure you that some of those men would visualize one of those nude attractive sexual women sometime and would get sexually aroused without thinking of their wife.

I think that would cause some dissention in the marriage if the wife knew that her husband was sexually excited about another woman. I don’t think that it would be a complete stretch to say that some husbands may visualize that nude woman on the beach as he is having sex with his wife.

I would assume that some of the women here on this forum would agree that their husbands acting in the manner above would cause dissention. Ladies am I right?

Agreed.

 

[Johnnz]

I would assume that some of the women here on this forum would agree that their husbands acting in the manner above would cause dissention. Ladies am I right?

Given prevailing cultural attitudes I would agree too. But I also don't accept that those values are divinely enshrined.

John
NZ

 

[Romanseight2005]

Johnz,
Does a woman have the right, to expect her husband to have his mind of her while making love? Is that the less than Godly attitude? Or, is it the sexualizing of the man thinking of the nude women, that's not his wife, during lovemaking with his wife, that is the wring thinking?

 

[Johnnz]

Johnz,
Does a woman have the right, to expect her husband to have his mind of her while making love? Is that the less than Godly attitude? Or, is it the sexualizing of the man thinking of the nude women, that's not his wife, during lovemaking with his wife, that is the wring thinking?

Yes she does have that right. But why would a guy who is used to seeing naked women non sexually then start reintroducing them into his thoughts while engaged in intercourse with his wife? I'm sure that does happen with many who view inappropriate content regularly. That's one big reason why inappropriate content is so bad.

Sex and nudity cannot be separated for some it seems. (Sigh).

John
NZ

 

[FaithPrevails]

John
Let us assume your theory above is correct.
America is not going to change into a society that has social nudity for all, right now or anytime soon. We have to deal with the reality that we now have.

I would venture to say that most women would not want their husbands to go to nude beaches. I can also assure you that some of those men would visualize one of those nude attractive sexual women sometime and would get sexually aroused without thinking of their wife.

I think that would cause some dissention in the marriage if the wife knew that her husband was sexually excited about another woman. I don’t think that it would be a complete stretch to say that some husbands may visualize that nude woman on the beach as he is having sex with his wife.

I would assume that some of the women here on this forum would agree that their husbands acting in the manner above would cause dissention. Ladies am I right?

I wouldn't want my husband going to a nude beach simply b/c I have no intention of going to one. So, what would the point be of him going without me? Of course, if he was a nudist and I wasn't, then maybe that would be different. I truly do believe that the average nudist (that just sounds funny) does not view fellow nudists sexually. If that were the case, nudist camps would be orgies, no? To the best of my knowledge, nothing illicit goes on at nudist camps.

That said, I don't think that my husband sexualizes images of nude women that he sees in a movie occasionally. He doesn't seek those types of movies out, he does not watch inappropriate content, and he is opposed to strip clubs.

I'm also confident that my husband has no other woman in his thoughts when we are intimate other than me. He has given me plenty of "proof" to be confident of this fact. I do know what it is like to not be confident of that, thanks to experiences in my previous marriage. So, I'm pretty confident in my confidence this time around.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Yes she does have that right. But why would a guy who is used to seeing naked women non sexually then start reintroducing them into his thoughts while engaged in intercourse with his wife? I'm sure that does happen with many who view inappropriate content regularly. That's one big reason why inappropriate content is so bad.

Sex and nudity cannot be separated for some it seems. (Sigh).

John
NZ

But Johnz, when you were giving examples of ways that a married couple could be erotic, one of the things you said was prolonged nudity. So, it sounds like you do think that nudity is erotic, and there for sexually inspiring, right?

 

[Johnnz]

But Johnz, when you were giving examples of ways that a married couple could be erotic, one of the things you said was prolonged nudity. So, it sounds like you do think that nudity is erotic, and there for sexually inspiring, right?

When sex is on the agenda nudity can (will) be erotic. Any married couple knows that. But there are times when nakedness does not result in arousal within a marriage.

My reference to prolonged nudity within marriage being erotic I was assuming that couples don't always have 'quick sex' and that their extended foreplay will include nudity.

John
NZ

 

[Created2Write]

My husband and I enjoy being naked. When we had a place of our own, nakedness with each other(and only each other) was something we cherished. We watched movies naked, we slept naked, we at food naked, we played card games naked. It was fun.

However, being naked in front of others is not something either of us finds even remotely alluring. Being naked with other naked people...sounds too much like an orgie to me, and frankly, I have NO desire to see anyone, other than my husband, naked. I'm sure you all are nice to look at, but no thanks. Nor do I want my husband seeing other naked women. He's a young man with a very healthy sex drive. Surrounding him with unlimited amounts of boobs as far as the eye can see is not at the top of my list.

I don't mean to sound angry...but I'm just a tad bit peeved at the suggestion that nudity should be more acceptable to our society. To that statement I have a huge, resounding, NO THANKS. I don't see its purpose, and as of yet, no one advocating it has said anything that makes me even remotely inclined to try it. I'm not comforted, I'm...well, disturbed. Maybe I just don't understand, but I have read a lot of posts on the topic and so far I agree with Romans. Casual nudity, whether in movies or in real life, is not going to solve any kind of inappropriate content or lust addictions.

Biblically we are to flee temptation, and nudity offers temptation for a lot of people. Put Josh Holloway in front of me and take off his clothes....there's no way on this earth that I would not be sinning in some way. I don't believe for an instant that every man on the earth wouldn't feel the same way for at least one woman they saw. And those feelings, that pleasure, is only meant to be experienced with our spouse. Period.

 

[FaithPrevails]

My husband and I enjoy being naked. When we had a place of our own, nakedness with each other(and only each other) was something we cherished. We watched movies naked, we slept naked, we at food naked, we played card games naked. It was fun.

However, being naked in front of others is not something either of us finds even remotely alluring. Being naked with other naked people...sounds too much like an orgie to me, and frankly, I have NO desire to see anyone, other than my husband, naked. I'm sure you all are nice to look at, but no thanks. Nor do I want my husband seeing other naked women. He's a young man with a very healthy sex drive. Surrounding him with unlimited amounts of boobs as far as the eye can see is not at the top of my list.

I don't mean to sound angry...but I'm just a tad bit peeved at the suggestion that nudity should be more acceptable to our society. To that statement I have a huge, resounding, NO THANKS. I don't see its purpose, and as of yet, no one advocating it has said anything that makes me even remotely inclined to try it. I'm not comforted, I'm...well, disturbed. Maybe I just don't understand, but I have read a lot of posts on the topic and so far I agree with Romans. Casual nudity, whether in movies or in real life, is not going to solve any kind of inappropriate content or lust addictions.

Biblically we are to flee temptation, and nudity offers temptation for a lot of people. Put Josh Holloway in front of me and take off his clothes....there's no way on this earth that I would not be sinning in some way. I don't believe for an instant that every man on the earth wouldn't feel the same way for at least one woman they saw. And those feelings, that pleasure, is only meant to be experienced with our spouse. Period.

C2W - I'm more than a little hurt and offended that you don't want to see me naked!

 

[Conservativation]

I'm still put off by people googling each other in public.....some people even google until they bing. Right there where you can see'em.

I was told that if i googled another woman in my heart it was the same as if id actually googled her.

Its getting more difficult to touch the keyboard and not go straight to googling. Im thinking of skipping the googling part and just go straight to the bing,

 

[blythe_ann]

I'm still put off by people googling each other in public.....some people even google until they bing. Right there where you can see'em.

I was told that if i googled another woman in my heart it was the same as if id actually googled her.

Its getting more difficult to touch the keyboard and not go straight to googling. Im thinking of skipping the googling part and just go straight to the bing,

Brilliant

 

[blythe_ann]

I'm sure you all are nice to look at, but no thanks. Nor do I want my husband seeing other naked women. He's a young man with a very healthy sex drive. Surrounding him with unlimited amounts of boobs as far as the eye can see is not at the top of my list.

Loved this.

 

[Created2Write]

Cons, you seem to be quite the sarcastic one today. lol.

 

[Johnnz]

C2W

I always enjoy your posts. I am not about to challenge anything you wrote, but your recent post did provoke me to do some thinking. Thanks.

Behind much of my thinking there are some deeply held biblical principles, as I understand them. Firstly God’s ‘very good’ was pronounced upon a couple whose humanity was sexual to the core. By this I mean they were told to procreate, ‘to fill the earth,’ created in two genders and each given the biological means to accomplish that mandate. From that I conclude that our sexuality is an inherent part of our God designed humanity and therefore should never be viewed within a negative frame of reference.

Sin introduced shame, amongst all else that is negative. The shame many people experience from their bodies, and especially regarding their sexual components, is a fallen reality, not a divinely mandated one. God’s clothing of the couple in Genesis is about salvation, not modesty or clothing.

In the NT we see two amazing affirmations of the goodness of the human body. The incarnation, whereby Jesus was not diminished in his divinity, attests to the fact that God has never abandoned his blueprint we see in Genesis – the “very good” still holds. Secondly, our bodies being God’s temple again affirms God perspective on His beloved creation. So much so we get bodies with greatly expanded capacities at the return of Jesus.

That contrasts with the Greek thinking prevalent in NT times. Greek teaching regarded the neck as the necessary separation of the higher functions of intellect within the head from the degraded lower nature of the body. For the Greeks there was absolutely no way the divine could cohabit the physical without compromise. Thus NT teaching about us being God’s temple, about all of the body having important contributions to make, and most amazingly a husband loving his wife as his own body were revolutionary concepts in NT times.

I see the following as representing sub standard Christian values:

a) Concepts such as ‘dirty’ disgusting’ ‘filthy’ used as descriptions of sexuality
b) Deeming shame as virtuous when, for example, we would praise a person feeling ‘ashamed’ at being naked. Being ashamed at some inappropriate activity is fine, but we must see that as a sin based shame, something is wrong. Conversely, nudists who are unashamed by the nakedness in a suitable setting have no reason to see why all the embarrassment should be deemed healthy and ‘right’. This is not suggesting nudity as evidence of some inner renewal of body image and values (although I probably see it that way) but more as an attestation of a glimpse of divine intent.
c) When, within marriage, sex is viewed as little more than obligation, and a couple are reticent about nakedness with each other then biblical standards have been all but abandoned.
d) An intense sense of privacy prevails in modern cultures. We must not see that as normative. Privacy as we know it will not exist after our resurrection. It will be “Thy will on earth, as it is in heaven’.

That’s a précis of my biblical stance on this issue.

John