To America: Innocent blood and Atonement

[Jake Arsenal]

There seems to be a general consensus that war is bad, but is it really?
Some wars seem to come out of nowhere, their starts making little sense after the fact, but was there a deeper, more spiritual cause? I think war is the only way in which blood polluted land can be redeemed.

God cursed the ground after the first murder, and the cursed ground was only redeemed by the death of all living things from off the face of the earth with the exception of those in the Ark.(Genesis 4:10-12)
Genesis 8:21-22
And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
God resolved the cursing of the ground for the spilling of blood with this:
Genesis 9:5-6
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

If justice is not done, if the people of the land do not ensure that the shedding of innocent blood is punished with the shedding of the blood of him that shed it, I think the blood of the innocent cries out to God for divine justice.(Genesis 4:10-12, 1 Kings 2:5-6, Revelation 6:9-11, Genesis 15:16) God is slow to wrath and gives everyone ample opportunity to repent.(2 Peter 3:9, Jonah 3:4-10, Jonah 4:2, Jonah 4:11) for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.(exerpt of Jonah 4:2)
Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Look at the book of Nahum(there are only three chapters) to learn the reason for that city's final fate.


2 Kings 22:11-13
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, he tore his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Micaiah, and Shaphan the secretary, and Asaiah the king's servant, saying, “Go, inquire of the Lord for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that has been found. For great is the wrath of the Lord that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us.”
2 Kings 22:16-20
Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will bring disaster upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the words of the book that the king of Judah has read. Because they have forsaken me and have made offerings to other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the work of their hands, therefore my wrath will be kindled against this place, and it will not be quenched. But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, thus shall you say to him, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Regarding the words that you have heard, because your heart was penitent, and you humbled yourself before the Lord, when you heard how I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before me, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the disaster that I will bring upon this place.’” And they brought back word to the king.
2 Kings 23:25-26
Before him there was no king like him, who turned to the Lord with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the Law of Moses, nor did any like him arise after him. Still the Lord did not turn from the burning of his great wrath, by which his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations with which Manasseh had provoked him.

God showed mercy to Nineveh when they repented, but He would not turn away from His anger when Judah repented. Look at Josiah's reforms.(2 Kings 22-23) No amount of repentance was enough. Why? I have heard it said that it was because Judah was to be held to a higher standard, but I think this is incorrect. Look at the sins of Nineveh as listed in both Jonah and Nahum verses the sins of Manasseh.

2 Kings 24:3-4
Surely at the commandment of the Lord came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did; And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the Lord would not pardon.

When I look through history, it seems to me that war is God's principle tool of punishment against lands that are polluted by the shedding of innocent blood.

In 1837, Elijah Parish Lovejoy(a newspaper publisher) was murdered for speaking out against slavery. His murder inspired a man named John Brown to publicly vow, "Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!" John Brown was eventually hung for treason just before the start of the American Civil War. “I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood. I had—as I now think—vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed it might be done.” John Brown's statement before he was executed on December 2, 1859.
Many Union troops marched to war singing this song:

I believe the American Civil War was Divine justice for the blood of the innocents shed in the land without atonement. After that war, even more innocent blood was shed in the land with no justice, right up to this day. This being an important holiday weekend, remember that an individual may repent of their murders and be forgiven, but the land is still polluted. Please take the time to pray for your nation because no amount of repentance is enough to cleanse the land for the blood that is shed in it.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There seems to be a general consensus that war is bad, but is it really?
Some wars seem to come out of nowhere, their starts making little sense after the fact, but was there a deeper, more spiritual cause? I think war is the only way in which blood polluted land can be redeemed.

God cursed the ground after the first murder, and the cursed ground was only redeemed by the death of all living things from off the face of the earth with the exception of those in the Ark.(Genesis 4:10-12)
Genesis 8:21-22
And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
God resolved the cursing of the ground for the spilling of blood with this:
Genesis 9:5-6
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

If justice is not done, if the people of the land do not ensure that the shedding of innocent blood is punished with the shedding of the blood of him that shed it, I think the blood of the innocent cries out to God for divine justice.(Genesis 4:10-12, 1 Kings 2:5-6, Revelation 6:9-11, Genesis 15:16) God is slow to wrath and gives everyone ample opportunity to repent.(2 Peter 3:9, Jonah 3:4-10, Jonah 4:2, Jonah 4:11) for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.(exerpt of Jonah 4:2)
Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Look at the book of Nahum(there are only three chapters) to learn the reason for that city's final fate.


2 Kings 22:11-13
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, he tore his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Micaiah, and Shaphan the secretary, and Asaiah the king's servant, saying, “Go, inquire of the Lord for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that has been found. For great is the wrath of the Lord that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us.”
2 Kings 22:16-20
Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will bring disaster upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the words of the book that the king of Judah has read. Because they have forsaken me and have made offerings to other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the work of their hands, therefore my wrath will be kindled against this place, and it will not be quenched. But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, thus shall you say to him, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Regarding the words that you have heard, because your heart was penitent, and you humbled yourself before the Lord, when you heard how I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before me, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the disaster that I will bring upon this place.’” And they brought back word to the king.
2 Kings 23:25-26
Before him there was no king like him, who turned to the Lord with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the Law of Moses, nor did any like him arise after him. Still the Lord did not turn from the burning of his great wrath, by which his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations with which Manasseh had provoked him.

God showed mercy to Nineveh when they repented, but He would not turn away from His anger when Judah repented. Look at Josiah's reforms.(2 Kings 22-23) No amount of repentance was enough. Why? I have heard it said that it was because Judah was to be held to a higher standard, but I think this is incorrect. Look at the sins of Nineveh as listed in both Jonah and Nahum verses the sins of Manasseh.

2 Kings 24:3-4
Surely at the commandment of the Lord came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did; And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the Lord would not pardon.

When I look through history, it seems to me that war is God's principle tool of punishment against lands that are polluted by the shedding of innocent blood.

In 1837, Elijah Parish Lovejoy(a newspaper publisher) was murdered for speaking out against slavery. His murder inspired a man named John Brown to publicly vow, "Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!" John Brown was eventually hung for treason just before the start of the American Civil War. “I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood. I had—as I now think—vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed it might be done.” John Brown's statement before he was executed on December 2, 1859.
Many Union troops marched to war singing this song:

I believe the American Civil War was Divine justice for the blood of the innocents shed in the land without atonement. After that war, even more innocent blood was shed in the land with no justice, right up to this day. This being an important holiday weekend, remember that an individual may repent of their murders and be forgiven, but the land is still polluted. Please take the time to pray for your nation because no amount of repentance is enough to cleanse the land for the blood that is shed in it.

I dont believe God curses nations now that we are in the New Covenant through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We are individually judged.
Blessings

 

[Jake Arsenal]

I dont believe God curses nations now that we are in the New Covenant through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We are individually judged.
Blessings

I once thought the same thing, but Jesus' sacrifice followed the rules of the law, and the law specifically stated that the land could only be cleansed by the blood of he who shed innocent blood.(Numbers 35:33)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I once thought the same thing, but Jesus' sacrifice followed the rules of the law, and the law specifically stated that the land could only be cleansed by the blood of he who shed innocent blood.(Numbers 35:33)

Since Jesus died once for all, confessing the sins as a corporate body should solve the issue. The first barrier to this is convincing people that sin is more than just a list of offenses, but something that defiles creation and causes it to malfunction.

 

[pdudgeon]

Agreed. It's in Revelations, right there in print.
This time the Earth and Heaven will be done away with, and a new Earth and a new Heaven will be created.
Blood sacrifice and a flood-washed Earth will not be enough to cleanse what has happened since the death and Resurrection of Jesus.
People will run to the mountains to hide, but no safe place will be found.
Everyone living at that time will be judged. No escape.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I once thought the same thing, but Jesus' sacrifice followed the rules of the law, and the law specifically stated that the land could only be cleansed by the blood of he who shed innocent blood.(Numbers 35:33)

America isn't ancient Israel. Ancient Israel is the land, not the US or any other nation. And in Christ, Israel doesn't refer to a parcel of land, but to the whole redeemed people of God, both Jew and Gentile.

Those who have committed bloodshed will stand before God on the Day of Judgment to give account, whether in passion or war. Because we must all stand before the Throne on that future Day.

Those who killed for sport.
Those who killed by following orders.
Those who killed in the name of kings, tyrants, and flags.
Those who have killed in their heart.
Those who have wished ill upon their neighbor.

No one is going to stand righteous before God on the basis of their good deeds, for all are wretched and sinful before the Law of God.

There is no one innocent except Jesus Christ the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world, and the only way anyone is going to get through that Day of Judgment is by the mercy of God in Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[pdudgeon]

God's two prophets will return from Heaven to warn the Jews one last time, but even they will be slain before Hanukah, their blood spilled, and people will congratulate each other on their deaths.
Only God's mercy and His divine grace will remain to spare those in whom He dwells.
The virgins with their lamps lit, will be waiting for their Bridegroom to appear and to claim them at last.
It's all there for eyes to see.

 

[Jake Arsenal]

America isn't ancient Israel. Ancient Israel is the land, not the US or any other nation. And in Christ, Israel doesn't refer to a parcel of land, but to the whole redeemed people of God, both Jew and Gentile.

Those who have committed bloodshed will stand before God on the Day of Judgment to give account, whether in passion or war. Because we must all stand before the Throne on that future Day.

Those who killed for sport.
Those who killed by following orders.
Those who killed in the name of kings, tyrants, and flags.
Those who have killed in their heart.
Those who have wished ill upon their neighbor.

No one is going to stand righteous before God on the basis of their good deeds, for all are wretched and sinful before the Law of God.

There is no one innocent except Jesus Christ the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world, and the only way anyone is going to get through that Day of Judgment is by the mercy of God in Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

I did not so much as use a single verse that contained the name Israel. There was mention of the Kingdom of Judah, but only in regards to God's unwillingness to forgive the shedding of innocent blood. I intentionally did this to avoid association with replacement theology. The verses I quoted go back to Genesis before the table of nations or any specific lands. I believe this principle is UNIVERSAL as specified in Genesis 9:5-6 because all people are made in the image of God. Therefore, I am asserting my belief, that wars are often divine judgement to cleanse land for the shedding of innocent blood.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I did not so much as use a single verse that contained the name Israel. There was mention of the Kingdom of Judah, but only in regards to God's unwillingness to forgive the shedding of innocent blood. I intentionally did this to avoid association with replacement theology. The verses I quoted go back to Genesis before the table of nations or any specific lands. I believe this principle is UNIVERSAL as specified in Genesis 9:5-6 because all people are made in the image of God. Therefore, I am asserting my belief, that wars are often divine judgement to cleanse land for the shedding of innocent blood.

"The land" in Numbers 35:33 refers to ha-Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[pdudgeon]

I did not so much as use a single verse that contained the name Israel. There was mention of the Kingdom of Judah, but only in regards to God's unwillingness to forgive the shedding of innocent blood. I intentionally did this to avoid association with replacement theology. The verses I quoted go back to Genesis before the table of nations or any specific lands. I believe this principle is UNIVERSAL as specified in Genesis 9:5-6 because all people are made in the image of God. Therefore, I am asserting my belief, that wars are often divine judgement to cleanse land for the shedding of innocent blood.

Agreed. God suspended His judgement on Israel until the Time was complete. That is why He sends the two prophets, to give Israel one last chance to accept Jesus as their King and Savior, The Son of God, The Promised One.
But when they kill the Prophets (that they will recognize as OT messengers of God) that is when Israel will fall under her last judgement, along with all the World.

 

[Blade]

Theres so much more to this. There came a day when God does not remember their sin any more. We are in the age of grace. We know "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God". Yes sin in this world always has a cost yet Satan is the god of this world and as Christ even said if this was my kingdom my servants would not have allowed you to take me. God told Israel once if you do the same sins as those other nations the ground will spit you out also.

So do we think God will forgive.. did we miss Christ coming dying for the world? John said as he saw Him coming.. behold the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. What sin is God holding against anyone? Yes yes to get that one must believe on in Christ. Has sin been judged or not? In Rom Paul talks about those that do all these evil things and how God will judge them. Well I as reading somewhere and they quoted that verse yet in those verses the key is "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things ". Kind a hard to judge someone when they don't know the truth for Christ said if you were blind you would have no sin...you say you see your sin remains.

So this is very lightly touching this but what is God judging again? Now I do think when a nation makes a covenant with God and breaks its.. that has a price. We are a nation that believes in Yeshua made a covenant with Him. I know this coming judgement has been talked about way before I was born. And every year someone pops up saying how God is going to Judge America. OT when God was about to Judge He looked for one among them to build a wall/ to stand in the gap so He would not have to. He found none. Well here in America there are thousands of us standing in the gap for America. This is just one reason nothing has happened. Everything we see today points to something wonderful is about to happen. When the enemy cranks it up like this.. you know God is about to do something wonderful.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I once thought the same thing, but Jesus' sacrifice followed the rules of the law, and the law specifically stated that the land could only be cleansed by the blood of he who shed innocent blood.(Numbers 35:33)

OT , Old Covenant.

 

[pdudgeon]

Theres so much more to this. There came a day when God does not remember their sin any more. We are in the age of grace. We know "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God". Yes sin in this world always has a cost yet Satan is the god of this world and as Christ even said if this was my kingdom my servants would not have allowed you to take me. God told Israel once if you do the same sins as those other nations the ground will spit you out also.

So do we think God will forgive.. did we miss Christ coming dying for the world? John said as he saw Him coming.. behold the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. What sin is God holding against anyone? Yes yes to get that one must believe on in Christ. Has sin been judged or not? In Rom Paul talks about those that do all these evil things and how God will judge them. Well I as reading somewhere and they quoted that verse yet in those verses the key is "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things ". Kind a hard to judge someone when they don't know the truth for Christ said if you were blind you would have no sin...you say you see your sin remains.

So this is very lightly touching this but what is God judging again? Now I do think when a nation makes a covenant with God and breaks its.. that has a price. We are a nation that believes in Yeshua made a covenant with Him. I know this coming judgement has been talked about way before I was born. And every year someone pops up saying how God is going to Judge America. OT when God was about to Judge He looked for one among them to build a wall/ to stand in the gap so He would not have to. He found none. Well here in America there are thousands of us standing in the gap for America. This is just one reason nothing has happened. Everything we see today points to something wonderful is about to happen. When the enemy cranks it up like this.. you know God is about to do something wonderful.

Yes, there are many of us standing in the gap: knowing that the first shots are coming, but not turning away.
These are the times we were made for, and the warning shots are already being fired.
But God stands with us, and confirms us. Not that we should glory in this, but that we point to Jesus, and give Him all the glory.
This is why we stand, and why we have been preserved, for such a time as this.

 

[Jake Arsenal]

OT , Old Covenant.

The Laws that run creation are universal to all times and shown to be so in both the OT and NT. Examples include hospitality, reaping and sowing, and life is in the blood, just to name a few. These rules are reiterated by Jesus in all four Gospels, and then numerous times throughout the rest of the New Testament. It would have been nice to have these laws listed as the 10 commandments were, but I think God wrote these laws on every human conscience.(Romans 1:18-32 especially Romans 1:19-20)

every year someone pops up saying how God is going to Judge America.

The OP was originally a post about innocent blood polluting lands across history as the cause for wars in general, but as I was considering a title for the post, I remembered the total absence of justice for the murder of Elijah Parish Lovejoy in the city of Alton, and John Brown's words kept coming to my mind, so I wrote them. I have clearly and carefully explained with many Scriptures how I have come to my conclusions.

I do not speak for God. He speaks to us through Jesus Christ.(Hebrews 1:1-2)

Since Jesus died once for all, confessing the sins as a corporate body should solve the issue. The first barrier to this is convincing people that sin is more than just a list of offenses, but something that defiles creation and causes it to malfunction.

God sent Jonah to warn the people of Nineveh, that generation repented in unison, and God spared them until a later time.