This website cannot accurately depict my faith

[Leat]

If you look next to my avatar, you'll see that I fall under the "Agnostic" faith. Which actually is only HALF of what it is.

Agnosticism isn't "I don't know if I believe in God or not" it's not a play the fence belief, so why is it it's own faith?

Agnosticism is the belief that one cannot prove or disprove God's existence. And I say that honestly, nobody can PROVE God exists or doesn't exist using scientific methods.

Why would I say such a thing?

Because to prove something exists that nobody can see with plain sight, must be extracted and isolated to be proven. I.E. The HIV/AIDS virus had to isolated and seen/examined to be proven that there is a virus. And it has been identified.

For God, this is impossible. Because we know God is Infinite, and He is spiritual, not physical. But at the same time, His fingerprints are everywhere.

DNA, RNA, and DMT are basically God's main finger prints. However, because DNA, RNA, and DMT are in every living thing, it cannot be isolated. And thus, proving God exists or doesn't exist using scientific methods is impossible.

Hence why it is a Faith not a Fact.

Now to further what I mean with all this mumbo-jumbo is, there are 4 main groups of faith that you may have not realized.

Agnostic Theists - Me. You cannot prove or disprove God exists, however I have faith in the fact that He does in fact exist.

Standard Theists - You can prove God exists, and anyone who doesn't agree is a total turd-head.

Agnostic Atheists - They play the fence, and don't care to move in either direction.

Standard Atheists - They believe there is no sentient being that is infinite and controls the entirety of eternity.

Just a point I wanted to make, not sure if anyone has ever considered these facts.

Oh yea, let me put up my Firewall from all the flamers who disagree.

 

[thesunisout]

If you look next to my avatar, you'll see that I fall under the "Agnostic" faith. Which actually is only HALF of what it is.

Agnosticism isn't "I don't know if I believe in God or not" it's not a play the fence belief, so why is it it's own faith?

Agnosticism is the belief that one cannot prove or disprove God's existence. And I say that honestly, nobody can PROVE God exists or doesn't exist using scientific methods.

Why would I say such a thing?

Because to prove something exists that nobody can see with plain sight, must be extracted and isolated to be proven. I.E. The HIV/AIDS virus had to isolated and seen/examined to be proven that there is a virus. And it has been identified.

For God, this is impossible. Because we know God is Infinite, and He is spiritual, not physical. But at the same time, His fingerprints are everywhere.

DNA, RNA, and DMT are basically God's main finger prints. However, because DNA, RNA, and DMT are in every living thing, it cannot be isolated. And thus, proving God exists or doesn't exist using scientific methods is impossible.

Hence why it is a Faith not a Fact.

Now to further what I mean with all this mumbo-jumbo is, there are 4 main groups of faith that you may have not realized.

Agnostic Theists - Me. You cannot prove or disprove God exists, however I have faith in the fact that He does in fact exist.

Standard Theists - You can prove God exists, and anyone who doesn't agree is a total turd-head.

Agnostic Atheists - They play the fence, and don't care to move in either direction.

Standard Atheists - They believe there is no sentient being that is infinite and controls the entirety of eternity.

Just a point I wanted to make, not sure if anyone has ever considered these facts.

Oh yea, let me put up my Firewall from all the flamers who disagree.

As a former agnostic, the definition of agnosticism that applied to me was that I didn't know whether God existed or not. While I didn't see any evidence for Him, I couldn't rule it out either. In no sense was I an atheist. I was simply agnostic and nothing else. Those who call themselves agnostic atheists are simply atheists who aren't completely sure about their atheism. If you are a true agnostic you don't rule God out by default. You give God as much benefit of the doubt for existing as not existing.

From what you have described, you are a theist that has no evidential basis for your belief. From scripture, this means that you have received the general revelation of God that He gives of Himself through His creation. It says that Gods eternal power and Godhead are made plain to everyone through the things He has made, because He has made it plain to them. What you have not yet received is Gods special revelation of Himself that He has given us through His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Radagast]

If you look next to my avatar, you'll see that I fall under the "Agnostic" faith.

So why are you posting in a "Christians Only" area of the board?

 

[x141]

It says that Gods eternal power and Godhead are made plain to everyone through the things He has made, because He has made it plain to them. What you have not yet received is Gods special revelation of Himself that He has given us through His Son Jesus Christ.

One revelation is without the other is within. One measurable the other, Life, Christ in us, without measure.

 

[yanno the meek]

Leat,

I consider myself Catholic but I'm with you, faith is a requirement for understanding God. I also agree His existence or non-existance isn't provable scientifically and I further interject that it will never be provable scientifically because He will see to it that faith will always a requirement.

However I will take issue with you on the spiritual v. physical nature of God. We know He is spiritual but we cannot assume He is not also physical particularly since we're made in His image. God has never said he is not physical and I frankly don't understand why everyone assumes it.

Also I've always considered agnosticism to be a state of mind, not an institution which is why I've never capitalized it. Your post is the first time in writing I've seen an attempt to codify agnosticism but I doubt there will ever be an Agnostic agenda.

Good post though.

 

[thomasalias]

If you look next to my avatar, you'll see that I fall under the "Agnostic" faith. Which actually is only HALF of what it is.

Thanks for sharing that Leat, i struggle with understanding the diversity of faith icons on this website, along with understanding theology terms and other things. Maybe this info will help make me more understanding.


I think God can be proved if you look around at all creation, it seems impossible for the universe and earth itself to happen only by chance, it must have been designed and created by a higher power with intelligence and having power beyond our understanding. And after reading the bible i think it can further convince people that God does exist. But no one can believe without the Holy Spirit either, if i am correct. God chooses us and Gives us His Spirit, the Spirit teaches us all things and reminds us of all that God has said to us, using the scriptures to teach us.

 

[woodpecker]

hi, I to was once agnostic, but God showed me other wise when I was 38yrs old.

I have faith in all of who God is...and God has given me evidence that He (Jesus) is real.

All those who are truly born again have faith because the Holy Spirit gave them Truth...and because the Holy Spirit now lives in me, I know with out a doubt God is real.

If you truly want to find God, and meet Him, Jesus is waiting for you to seek Him,...

I met Jesus when I was in a recovery program, they had us write down all our sins from as far back as 3yrs old, being 38yrs old I had a few pages, then I was to say a prayer of repentance,....God showed me how He saw sin, I started to cry, forgive me Lord, and then I was filled with such warmth, such happiness, such love.

Faith is having hope in something we can not see, but God gives us His Holy Spirit to guide us, and to proclaim to us God is very real.

Let go of human wisdom, and seek God with your whole heart and MIND, for faith is not letting go of your intelligence, but it heightening, enlightening your intelligence of not just this world, but the beautiful spiritual world God has created for you.

 

[Leat]

Thanks for sharing that Leat, i struggle with understanding the diversity of faith icons on this website, along with understanding theology terms and other things. Maybe this info will help make me more understanding.


I think God can be proved if you look around at all creation, it seems impossible for the universe and earth itself to happen only by chance, it must have been designed and created by a higher power with intelligence and having power beyond our understanding. And after reading the bible i think it can further convince people that God does exist. But no one can believe without the Holy Spirit either, if i am correct. God chooses us and Gives us His Spirit, the Spirit teaches us all things and reminds us of all that God has said to us, using the scriptures to teach us.

You just have to take a step back and re-read what you typed. You assumed that Chance doesn't seem like a logical conclusion for Existence at all, which is actually an opinion. And to go along with that, people have their own opinions and view points.

I believe Free Will and Predestination is 50/50 as well.

Ever seen Pay it forward? Basically, if you help two people, and tell them to pay it forward to someone else, instead of back to you, the end result, theoretically is everyone helping everyone eventually.

So if you take that Tree Map of idea, 1 helps 2, 2 helps 4, etc etc, then every decision you make in life drastically changes the direction your life takes. When you experience Deja Vu, it's when this dimension and the others in which yourself chose the other route, overlap. But since Deja Vu is "I swear I've _____ that before!" it is you sharing the experience that was going to happen, regardless of what decisions you made, except it was postponed to happen later vs the other dimensions where yourself chose a different life path, made the experience happen sooner.

Thus, the end result is God definitely controls everything, however He gives us freedom of choice on how we end up there. Ultimately shaping the end result of that event and how your life either moves in the right or wrong direction from that event.

And you say you believe God can be proven, well, let's say I am a complete Atheist.

Just for the sake of debate: There is no God, prove to me God exists, and I shall believe.

I will most definitely combat your arguments with mine just to see if it IS possible to prove God exists.

 

[thomasalias]

You just have to take a step back and re-read what you typed. You assumed that Chance doesn't seem like a logical conclusion for Existence at all, which is actually an opinion. And to go along with that, people have their own opinions and view points.

I believe Free Will and Predestination is 50/50 as well.

Ever seen Pay it forward? Basically, if you help two people, and tell them to pay it forward to someone else, instead of back to you, the end result, theoretically is everyone helping everyone eventually.

So if you take that Tree Map of idea, 1 helps 2, 2 helps 4, etc etc, then every decision you make in life drastically changes the direction your life takes. When you experience Deja Vu, it's when this dimension and the others in which yourself chose the other route, overlap. But since Deja Vu is "I swear I've _____ that before!" it is you sharing the experience that was going to happen, regardless of what decisions you made, except it was postponed to happen later vs the other dimensions where yourself chose a different life path, made the experience happen sooner.

Thus, the end result is God definitely controls everything, however He gives us freedom of choice on how we end up there. Ultimately shaping the end result of that event and how your life either moves in the right or wrong direction from that event.

And you say you believe God can be proven, well, let's say I am a complete Atheist.

Just for the sake of debate: There is no God, prove to me God exists, and I shall believe.

I will most definitely combat your arguments with mine just to see if it IS possible to prove God exists.

I would just say this: Read the bible and pray and ask God to reveal his reality, if you still don't believe then peace be with you. Someone won't believe unless God has called them anyway, its His job to call people, we are just helpers.

 

[Leat]

As a former agnostic, the definition of agnosticism that applied to me was that I didn't know whether God existed or not. While I didn't see any evidence for Him, I couldn't rule it out either. In no sense was I an atheist. I was simply agnostic and nothing else. Those who call themselves agnostic atheists are simply atheists who aren't completely sure about their atheism. If you are a true agnostic you don't rule God out by default. You give God as much benefit of the doubt for existing as not existing.

From what you have described, you are a theist that has no evidential basis for your belief. From scripture, this means that you have received the general revelation of God that He gives of Himself through His creation. It says that Gods eternal power and Godhead are made plain to everyone through the things He has made, because He has made it plain to them. What you have not yet received is Gods special revelation of Himself that He has given us through His Son Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you're right, perhaps not. I used to be hardcore Christian, shoving my beliefs down peoples throats, etc etc. I then one day had to step back, and open my mind to be able to see from all perspectives as to why and why not people believe in God.

If you only know how to believe in God, and have no comprehension of how not to believe in God, then how can you connect and help those that you want to share your faith with? Back in the day, when science was limited and basically scolded, it was easier. Now that science is extremely complex, you have to understand why someone would not believe in God so you could show them why they should.

And to go along with that, The Bible and God's Word is a Spiritual book, not a Physical book[well except that it is written on paper and canonized by rich people]. It's even written that those who are dead cannot understand or comprehend The Bible. They're like "What's that mean? I don't understand".

So how could you explain that to them on a level they understand if all you understand is the Spiritual complexity of The Bible, and God?

My beliefs changed after I started to smoke Pot. I've quit for the better of myself and of my witness.

And before I end this, how can you combat arguments you've never heard of before, or even attempted to find an answer to because you wrote it off as "they're stupid, that doesn't even make sense"?

I have no doubt in my mind God exists, that Jesus was the Son and is the Savior/Saviour. You just have to realize my point is that Scientifically, you cannot prove or disprove God because using mortal science, Immortal God cannot be proven.

And that's quite an assumption you have there about me personally.

 

[Leat]

I would just say this: Read the bible and pray and ask God to reveal his reality, if you still don't believe then peace be with you. Someone won't believe unless God has called them anyway, its His job to call people, we are just helpers.

Do you realize, that even in my Original Post, I said I was an Agnostic Theist? Therefore claiming my belief in God/Jesus?

 

[Leat]

So why are you posting in a "Christians Only" area of the board?

Quit sniping and read. I don't appreciate arrogance.

 

[Leat]

Leat,

I consider myself Catholic but I'm with you, faith is a requirement for understanding God. I also agree His existence or non-existance isn't provable scientifically and I further interject that it will never be provable scientifically because He will see to it that faith will always a requirement.

However I will take issue with you on the spiritual v. physical nature of God. We know He is spiritual but we cannot assume He is not also physical particularly since we're made in His image. God has never said he is not physical and I frankly don't understand why everyone assumes it.

Also I've always considered agnosticism to be a state of mind, not an institution which is why I've never capitalized it. Your post is the first time in writing I've seen an attempt to codify agnosticism but I doubt there will ever be an Agnostic agenda.

Good post though.

Thumbs up!!! 10 gold stars!!! This guy understands what I'm saying.

 

[thomasalias]

Do you realize, that even in my Original Post, I said I was an Agnostic Theist? Therefore claiming my belief in God/Jesus?

Yes i do, that's why i thanked you for explaining that to me. I was just answering the hypothetical question you posed to me in your last response to my post, i wasn't talking directly to you though.



Your question was this: "And you say you believe God can be proven, well, let's say I am a complete Atheist.

Just for the sake of debate: There is no God, prove to me God exists, and I shall believe."

 

[Leat]

Yes i do, that's why i thanked you for explaining that to me. I was just answering the hypothetical question you posed to me in your last response to my post, i wasn't talking directly to you though.



Your question was this: "And you say you believe God can be proven, well, let's say I am a complete Atheist.

Just for the sake of debate: There is no God, prove to me God exists, and I shall believe."

That's all for the sake of debate. I'm challenging you to prove to me God exists. In a friendly way. No hate or harm to be had, right?

I'm not an Atheist...just for the sake of Argument I am. LOL

 

[thomasalias]

That's all for the sake of debate. I'm challenging you to prove to me God exists. In a friendly way. No hate or harm to be had, right?

Ok, i'll try and play a long for a minute . I have said that all creation proves there is a creator. But if that doesn't prove it to you then i would say prove that the only alternative to creationism which is a flawed theory of evolution is true. Darwin said that women were lower on the scale of evolution than men and that's absurd, and he also said we would find missing link fossils in the fossil record that would prove his theory of evolution, he himself said that if we failed to find that fossil evidence then his theory was wrong, and we have failed to find that evidence, so Darwin himself agrees that his theory was wrong. And the fact that they claim that man came from ape is more impossible to believe than the plausibility that God created man Himself. We are called to believe by faith and it takes more faith to believe there isn't a God than there is, so i'll use my faith to believe in God the creator and not the flawed theory of evolution. The most far out story in the bible is more believable than evolution because the bible explains that God is all powerful and works in mysterious ways, evolution has nothing but science and that science itself proves evolution is false. But science cannot prove that God doesn't exist, and cannot explain how man came from ape or why we haven't found fossil records to prove evolution. Other than that i have nothing else to say except prove that God doesn't exist.

 

[Leat]

Perfect!

Using an effect to explain a cause, unless it is repetitive, cannot be used to make a fact. All creation[implying there is a creator] proves there is a creator[implying that creation is the only way we got here]. To go along with that, all we know is that we came from something, which came from something, etc etc. So to say that all we know is all there is, is actually a small mind frame.

Darwin's grave stone actually puts his own theory out of mind. However Darwinism is only one of many evolution theories. His theory is we evolved from single celled organisms to animals to ourselves, today. We could disprove this simply by asking the question "Why are there men and apes co-existing in the same environment? And when tracing the origins of where difference races came from, why didn't some races become extinct?" His theory was also sexist and racist.

A play on Evolution that makes more logical scientific sense, is that every animal evolved into it's own form. Just like the HIV virus, the Syphilis bacteria and the Herpes virus are all different microscopic organisms that do there own thing and look different, have a different genetic makeup, etc. we could use this to prove evolution, however excluding Darwins theories.

While fossilization has occurred and continues to occur, not everything is fossilized...yet again disproving Darwins theory, which is an isolated theory.


Anyways...try to solve this one. Can God create something He Cannot Lift?

 

[thomasalias]

Perfect!

Using an effect to explain a cause, unless it is repetitive, cannot be used to make a fact. All creation[implying there is a creator] proves there is a creator[implying that creation is the only way we got here]. To go along with that, all we know is that we came from something, which came from something, etc etc. So to say that all we know is all there is, is actually a small mind frame.

Darwin's grave stone actually puts his own theory out of mind. However Darwinism is only one of many evolution theories. His theory is we evolved from single celled organisms to animals to ourselves, today. We could disprove this simply by asking the question "Why are there men and apes co-existing in the same environment? And when tracing the origins of where difference races came from, why didn't some races become extinct?" His theory was also sexist and racist.

A play on Evolution that makes more logical scientific sense, is that every animal evolved into it's own form. Just like the HIV virus, the Syphilis bacteria and the Herpes virus are all different microscopic organisms that do there own thing and look different, have a different genetic makeup, etc. we could use this to prove evolution, however excluding Darwins theories.

While fossilization has occurred and continues to occur, not everything is fossilized...yet again disproving Darwins theory, which is an isolated theory.


Anyways...try to solve this one. Can God create something He Cannot Lift?

God can do anything. Evolution cannot.

Its interesting that the theory of evolution itself must keep evolving or it will go extinct, yet God is unchanging.

If you mean how can God create a huge planet or groups of planets and stars that he cannot lift, i would say that God can do anything, and besides in space everything is weightless.

 

[yanno the meek]

I will most definitely combat your arguments with mine just to see if it IS possible to prove God exists.

That is a combat you will probably win. I very much doubt God would allow a definitive proof. Faith is part of the equation of salvation. You can go down that road only so far. The rest is a leap of faith.

The proof of God lies in an answered prayer.

 

[yanno the meek]

Anyways...try to solve this one. Can God create something He Cannot Lift?

In the interest of playing devil's advocate: There are a number of qualities in God's creation that God does not possess. A human can in theory possess infinite mercy for example. We Catholics believe humans possess other qualities which God does not, such as the ability to grow and the ability to change our mind.