"This is my body"/Seder/Afikomen

[Caissie]

When the Messiah said, "This is my body" was he referring to the Afikomen? If you believe this, please tell me why, if you don't, please tell me why (documentation would be great for both).

Thanks,

 

[Kris10leigh]

We've just been discussing this, actually.

I believe that yes, Yeshua was referring to the afikomen. He was celebrating the Seder dinner at Pesach, so it would not have been bread, but unleavened bread he was referring to.

 

[Tishri1]

The Cup was "also after supper...." and the bread he picked up before that cup would naturally be the Afikomen, the last morsel eaten at a Seder.

Knowing the meaning of the Afikomen, I love the the whole picture of this bread and wine

1 Corinthians 11:24-26 (New American Standard Bible)

24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
25In the same way He took (A)the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the (B)new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death (C)until He comes.
Cross references:

1. 1 Corinthians 11:25 : 1 Cor 10:16
2. 1 Corinthians 11:25 : Ex 24:6-8; Luke 22:20; 2 Cor 3:6
3. 1 Corinthians 11:26 : John 21:22; 1 Cor 4:5

 

[visionary]

The Unleavened Bread teaches us about the Body of the Master! If we examine a piece of matzah, we will see that it has three peculiar attributes.

1. It is pierced.
2. It is striped.
3. It is flat.
4. It is without leaven.

 

[visionary]

Just as the Unleavened Bread is pierced, Messiah's body was pierced. Just as the the Unleavened Bread is striped, his body was striped and wounded, and just as the unleavened bread is without yeast, making it flat, he was without sin. We find it written in the Scriptures, "They will look upon the one they have pierced," (Zecheriah 12:10) and again, "By his stripes we are healed," (Isaiah 53:5) and again, "Yet he was without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

 

[visionary]

This meal is called a Pesach Seder. The purpose of this meal was a commemoration. It was a memorial meal to remember the meal eaten in Egypt as the LORD passed over.

'Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations . . . (Exodus 12:14)

For us today, we want the Lord to lead us out of spiritual Egypt.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Unleavened Bread teaches us about the Body of the Master! If we examine a piece of matzah, we will see that it has three peculiar attributes.

1. It is pierced.
2. It is striped.
3. It is flat.
4. It is without leaven.

1. and 2. may be true today, but was it true in Jesus' day?

 

[Kris10leigh]

1. and 2. may be true today, but was it true in Jesus' day?

It may have been pierced. You have to pierce it or it will bubble.

 

[Steve Petersen]

It may have been pierced. You have to pierce it or it will bubble.

2. then?

 

[Kris10leigh]

2. then?

I got nothin'.

 

[A_Pioneer]

Ever seen a sopaipilla?

 

[Kris10leigh]

Ever seen a sopaipilla?

Yes...it too is unleavened bread basically, isn't it?

 

[anisavta]

No they are made with yeast.
Pita bread is also made with yeast.

 

[A_Pioneer]

Yes...it too is unleavened bread basically, isn't it?

The point was, if not pierced it will puff up like a sopapilla.
Sorry I didn't make it clear.

 

[Kris10leigh]

The point was, if not pierced it will puff up like a sopapilla.
Sorry I didn't make it clear.

Oooh! Gotcha.

 

[SGM4HIM]

1. and 2. may be true today, but was it true in Jesus' day?

12 hours later-- Please tell us, the suspense is too much!

 

[ContraMundum]

1. and 2. may be true today, but was it true in Jesus' day?

Does anybody really know?

Does anybody really know where those traditions surrounding the Afikomen come from? (Including my favorite- that Portuguese fisherman nail it to their masts- which I can't find online anymore- where's Steve Peterson when you need him!?)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From this article:

"The afikoman was believed to have protective powers.53 In seventeenth century Poland they would “break a piece off of the afikoman, pierce it and hang it on the wall”.54 Indeed, Hebrew author David Frischmann (1859-1922) published a story “Akhan Asher B'varsha” which describes a Jewish boy in Warsaw who was so hungry that he ate the afikoman hanging on the wall!55

In Lybia and Tunisia, the afikoman was carried by sea travelers as an antidote for a raging sea.56 In Persia, it was kept in the pocket as a charm for plenty and blessing.57 It was also used as a charm for pregnant women to ensure male children, to cure someone who is mute, to ensure silos full of grain, to protect against bullets, and to prevent a river from overflowing its banks.57a"

[/FONT]What about the meaning of the word "afikomen?". It's probably based on Greek, not Hebrew. A Greek word (in one tense anyway) for afikomen is aphikomenos, which means "He has come". Which is odd, because some Jews argue that it is Aramaic for "what comes out"....which also works for the Ressurection. You get a different spin on it every time you talk to someone about it. Anyway- all speculation (except the Greek).



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[Steve Petersen]

I have been trying to find out about ancient matzah without much success. One must assume that more primitive cultures today may preserve some of the methods. I am thinking of Bedouin methods. How about the Samaritans?

Matzah in a box is usually square and perforated in parallel columns. This causes the unperforated section to rest on whatever baking equipment is being used causing darker parallel sections people call stripes.

What I have seen of one method bread preparations in other Near Easter cultures is a round bread that is tossed onto a heated clay surface. I can't see how this bread would be 'striped.'

 

[johnd]

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[johnd]

They actually found a piece of matza from the first century CE perfectly preserved in the dentures of the 2000 year old man...

Mel Brooks Carl Reiner
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