This idea has probably come up before...

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Flamefeathers

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An interesting concept dealing with evolution and the whole design theory. My mom brought this up for one of our *in-the-car* discussions. I don't know if she heard this somewhere else or not. Anyway, try to be open when reading this, whether you are for evolution or intelligent design.

Let's say that the world was designed by God. He made everything perfect: the universe, the earth, all of the living creatures on the earth, and man and woman. What happened then? There was, what is called "The Fall." Now, what if there really is evolution? What is/are the definition(s) of evolution?

Evolution:
1.noun: (biology) the sequence of events involved in the evolutionary development of a species or taxonomic group of organisms
2.noun: a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage (especially a more advanced or mature stage)

And, just because I want to make sure that I am not misinterpreting the meaning of any words, let's look at the definitions of development. There are many, some of which are not relevant to what I am proposing here.

Development:
1.noun: act of improving by expanding or enlarging or refining
2.noun: a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage (especially a more advanced or mature stage)
3.noun: (biology) the process of an individual organism growing organically; a purely biological unfolding of events involved in an organism changing gradually from a simple to a more complex level

First, look at the definitions of evolution. Yes, many people think of evolution as advancement, positive, improvement, and change towards something better. But growth can also be negative. Change can be detrimental. Could it have been that since everything was perfect before The Fall, evolution came into being as soon as Adam and Eve took bites of the fruit?

Development, as you can see, has various meanings. Not only does it mean that something changes for the better, but it can mean that something changes for the worse as well. Again, follow the thought process. Everything was perfect. Then The Fall. Suddenly, there was a downward spiral of evolution. A slow disassembly began to take place. The dinosaurs died (I believe that everything lived in harmony in the beginning, including the dinosaurs. See the book of Job). In the early days of the bible, people lived for hundreds of years, but this changed as time passsed. Diseases came into being. Species of animals died out. Some scientists today are worried about global warming. The world has had tsunamis, earthquakes, and hurricanes of monstrous proportions. I am not a person who cries, "Doom! Doom is coming! Prepare for the end of the world!" But couldn't this theory, that evolution is a downward spiral of events, account for many things today? Geologically, physically, biologically, chemically, even socially?

Shall we take this even further and say that, since so many people talk about a "homosexuality gene" that this gene could not also be cause by the downward spiral? There are, I'm sure, quite a number of things that could be caused by the idea of evolution after the Fall.

I appreciate any thoughts on this. I plan to look into scientific evidence of the world's collapse in the not too distant future.
 

chaoschristian

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Evolutionary processes are neutral in value within the context that you've laid out.

There is no up or down, advancement or regression.

Change is change.

The notion that some species are 'more evolved' or 'more advanced' than others is a metaphysical issue.

Only the first definition of evolution that you provided is of value in describing the actual biological theory of evolution (change in alleles over time). The second one is a general definition of evolution, as you could apply it to any given set of general circumstances (eg. Bob's conceptualization of whipped custard evolved over time from simple gelatines to complex parfaits), but it is not specific or precise enough to apply to the concept of biological evolution.

Additionally, the concept of development is one that is applicable to individuals (the embryo developed into a fetus) but is not so useful for evolutionary theory since evolutionary theory is confined to the level of populations and is not applicable to individuals.

This is the problem with taking dictionary definitions and applying to technical areas. It fails to recognize the nuances that are built into the meaning of words within those technical areas. The precise meaning of a word is often defined by its context.

Theologically you are going to have to demonstrate that Creation was perfect as you claim. Scripture specifically uses 'good' and there are whole threads dedicated in this forum to why or why not good means perfect.

You will also have to demonstrate that Creation itself was effected by the Fall of Man as described in scripture. Again, a topic to which much thought and energy has been applied.

Lastly you will have to demonstrate that scripture conveys indicative historical and scientific meaning in addition to metaphysical meaning. It is not a given.

And very lastly, CF has strict rules about where homosexuality can be discussed. This is not one of those places.

Other than that, welcome to CF! I hope your stay is a prosperous one.
 
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shernren

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Welcome flamefeathers, and don't worry about taking your time! I've made many mistakes too throughout my time on this forum. What matters is not so much that you have been wrong once or twice but that you get up and find out what is right. Stick around and follow the discussions, I'm sure you'll learn a lot by listening. Do feel free to PM if you have any questions. :)
 
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