The whole sabbath issue

[BrightCandle]

To fulfill means to make complete.. It is finished.. Now our sabbath is an rest into Him and not a day.

If that was the case, don't you think that Jesus would have informed the disciples of such? He must not have because after he was crucified, they prepared his body on the preparation day and then "rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment." See Luke 24:54-56

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Enlarge ​

Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

 

[Stryder06]

To fulfill means to make complete.. It is finished.. Now our sabbath is an rest into Him and not a day.

How do you than explain the validity of the other 9 commandments. Is it ok to break them and claim their fulfillment in Christ as our reason?

 

[BrightCandle]

Enlarge ​

Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

As long as people are still alive there is a chance that TRUTH will finally prevail over the errors of Satan. If Jesus gave up on the disciples when they were so often quite dense when it came to their spiritual comprehension where would we be now?

 

[WailingWall]

Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God's law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty.

Hi RND
Found a few scriptures that back up what you say.


JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? WORK? Bad word for some.


JAMES 2 [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

JOHN 8 [33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? [34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So, according to Jesus its not the commandments that are considered “bondage”. Its quite the opposite. If you are walking at liberty, you are keeping the commandments. Its the breaking of the 10 commandments which points to your bondage. Its sin. Does that make sense? Sure does. Could you imagine claiming the keeping of Gods commandments is bondage? YIKES!


DEUT.13 [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] YE SHALL WALK AFTER THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND FEAR HIM, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] AND THAT PROPHET, OR THAT DREAMER OF DREAMS, SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH; BECAUSE HE HATH SPOKEN TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH BROUGHT YOU OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, AND REDEEMED YOU OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. YUP! No doubt.

 

[BrightCandle]

Hi RND
Found a few scriptures that back up what you say.


JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? WORK? Bad word for some.


JAMES 2 [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

JOHN 8 [33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? [34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So, according to Jesus its not the commandments that are considered “bondage”. Its quite the opposite. If you are walking at liberty, you are keeping the commandments. Its the breaking of the 10 commandments which points to your bondage. Its sin. Does that make sense? Sure does. Could you imagine claiming the keeping of Gods commandments is bondage? YIKES!


DEUT.13 [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] YE SHALL WALK AFTER THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND FEAR HIM, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] AND THAT PROPHET, OR THAT DREAMER OF DREAMS, SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH; BECAUSE HE HATH SPOKEN TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH BROUGHT YOU OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, AND REDEEMED YOU OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. YUP! No doubt.

WW: Thanks for posting the strong Scriptural texts in support of obedience to God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments.

 

[WailingWall]

WW: Thanks for posting the strong Scriptural texts in support of obedience to God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments.

Yeah BrightCandle
You will find this also in the new testament

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

ARE YOU CHASTENED BY GOD
HEBREWS 12 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.[6] Therefore thou shalt KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO GRACE WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[WailingWall]

The "many" will say that they (the people, the pope or whoever) have changed Gods 4th commandment because they believe Jesus rose from the dead on a sunday mornin.

Is this their right?

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

NOPE

 

[WailingWall]

EZEK.8 [13] He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.[14] Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat WOMEN WEEPING FOR TAMMUZ.[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and THOU SHALT SEE GREATER ABOMINATIONS than these.[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and THEIR FACES TOWARD THE EAST; AND THEY WORSHIPPED THE SUN TOWARD THE EAST.

Did Jesus rise on a sunday morn? Did He rise on a late sabbath day?

Uhhh..According to scripture

 

[New_Wineskin]

Did Jesus rise on a sunday morn? Did He rise on a late sabbath day?

Uhhh..According to scripture

Personally , it would appear to me He rose towards the end of the *weekly* Sabbath as I am convinced that He was killed by the Romans Wednesday before dusk and *three days* later ( if the Lord was literal ) would be the Sabbath .

However , I am surprised that I have not heard of many who agree with the option that it could have been neither the Sabbath nor Sunday but Saturday after dusk as the Sabbath ends at dusk Saturday .

 

[BrightCandle]

Personally , it would appear to me He rose towards the end of the *weekly* Sabbath as I am convinced that He was killed by the Romans Wednesday before dusk and *three days* later ( if the Lord was literal ) would be the Sabbath .

However , I am surprised that I have not heard of many who agree with the option that it could have been neither the Sabbath nor Sunday but Saturday after dusk as the Sabbath ends at dusk Saturday .

That would be a good new thread topic. My view is that Jesus rose at dawn on the first day of the week (Sunday), this is based on these key texts take from the book of Luke (23:54-56 & 24:1-2).

Luke 23:54-56,

54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Luke 24: 1-2,

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Someone forgot to tell Ignatius in the first century that he was wrong when he said

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death - whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master— how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher?
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0105.htm
​

And we should note the day of worship is not the issue here, the topic is for us to live with Christ. He uses the reference to Sabbath as if it is a universal accepted fact that Christians celebrate on Sunday, not the Sabbath. And the references suggests a substitution of observance not a release from a commandment.

Hard to believe He could be writing that in the first century if it were not true without someone objecting. Just a thought.

 

[RND]

Someone forgot to tell Ignatius in the first century that he was wrong when he said

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death - whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master— how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher?
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Magnesians (St. Ignatius)
​

And we should note the day of worship is not the issue here, the topic is for us to live with Christ. He uses the reference to Sabbath as if it is a universal accepted fact that Christians celebrate on Sunday, not the Sabbath. And the references suggests a substitution of observance not a release from a commandment.

Hard to believe He could be writing that in the first century if it were not true without someone objecting. Just a thought.

Error is error. In other words, just because Ignatius believed and promulgated an error doesn't make the error true - that's a huge error in logic. It's a fallacy to think that simply promoting an error makes it true. Clearly Ignatius did not observe the sabbath. That's common knowledge. That that doesn't make dismissing the 4th commandment correct, it just shows the error that Ignatius promulgated.

If Ignatius had purposed this with any of the other commandments, say the 9th for example, would that mean that bearing false witness was acceptable? Of course not.

If one instructed their child not to take the car without permission, and they did it anyway, that would not make the admonition to not take the car any less true. The error of the child would not annul the commandment of the parent.

 

[New_Wineskin]

That would be a good new thread topic.

Yep - been done . Usually only a few have not already made up their mind .

To me , it never mattered what physical day He rose because it was three days after ( or including ) the Passover which is not dependant on a physical day . So , if a day were to be regarded as holy because it was when He rose , it should be dependant on *THE* Sabbath - the Passover - Only three days later ( or two because of the different variations of how the Passover Sabbath was to be celebrated ..

My view is that Jesus rose at dawn on the first day of the week (Sunday), this is based on these key texts take from the book of Luke (23:54-56 & 24:1-2).

Luke 23:54-56,

54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Luke 24: 1-2,

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb.

After a a bit of study years ago , I came up with three main events that made it Wednesday to Saturday . Off the top of my head :

Day 0) Jesus died . They had to rush to place His body in the tomb before a Sabbath . Women took note of where He laid .

Day 1 ) a Sabath comes and goes

Day 2) The day after the Sabbath , the women bought spices . They had to prepare the spices but did not have time to bring them to the tomb - the Sabbath was upon them .

Day 3) another Sabbath comes and goes

Day 4) the women come to the tomb and find it empty . They did not see Him rise - it already happened .


Again , that is from where I stand . I don't see it as important regarding doctrine .

 

[ruperik]

I could be mistaken, but I know nowhere in the Bible that establishes either Saturday or Sunday as the sabbath. Saturday was established by the Jewish church. Sunday by the Christian. The fact of the matter is that "on the seventh day he rested". The question you should be asking is what is the sabbath day for you? I think in todays culture, Sunday is a safer bet because most people start their work week on Monday. However, if you start your work week on Sunday, then you should observe Saturday.

On another not, we are bound by part of the Mosaic law. If you read the OT and the NT, you will realize that Christ used the OT in his preaching frequently and was clear that this was not annulled by his coming. However, Christ came and made the ultimate sacrifice. Our sacrifice to God is not longer animals, but Christ. Sacrimental law was fullfilled in him. Christ even said he came to fullfill the law, not abolish it. So, since the sabbath is not a sacriment, we are required by the Bible to uphold it. We do not, however, have to make sacrifice on it, but should rest.

Another thing to realize is that Christ is the Lord of the sabbath. The things which he has commanded us to do can be done on the sabbath. This means you don't go to work or do homework, but you can take care for others, assemble and worship, spread God's word, etc. If Christ said it, then we can do it. Do not think you have to sit around and do nothing all day. You should rest, but if you want to go feed some people at a soup kitchen, or go to church, or do anything commanded by Christ, then you are fine.

I am sure many will not be ok with this, but I think this is a fair analysis of what the entire Bible tells us to do, not just parts. I hope this helps.

 

[RND]

I could be mistaken, but I know nowhere in the Bible that establishes either Saturday or Sunday as the sabbath.

You are. The sabbath is clearly the "seventh-day." When is the seventh-day?

Sat⋅ur⋅day

   /ˈsæt

ərˌdeɪ, -di/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sat-er-dey, -dee] Show IPA Use saturday in a Sentence

–noun the seventh day of the week, following Friday.

Saturday was established by the Jewish church.

The sabbath was "established" by God Himself.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Sunday by the Christian. The fact of the matter is that "on the seventh day he rested". The question you should be asking is what is the sabbath day for you? I think in todays culture, Sunday is a safer bet because most people start their work week on Monday. However, if you start your work week on Sunday, then you should observe Saturday.

Is such a distinction ever made in scripture?

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

On another not, we are bound by part of the Mosaic law. If you read the OT and the NT, you will realize that Christ used the OT in his preaching frequently and was clear that this was not annulled by his coming. However, Christ came and made the ultimate sacrifice. Our sacrifice to God is not longer animals, but Christ. Sacrimental law was fullfilled in him. Christ even said he came to fullfill the law, not abolish it. So, since the sabbath is not a sacriment, we are required by the Bible to uphold it. We do not, however, have to make sacrifice on it, but should rest.

So clearly there remains a sabbath rest for the people. Not a Sunday rest.

Another thing to realize is that Christ is the Lord of the sabbath. The things which he has commanded us to do can be done on the sabbath. This means you don't go to work or do homework, but you can take care for others, assemble and worship, spread God's word, etc. If Christ said it, then we can do it. Do not think you have to sit around and do nothing all day. You should rest, but if you want to go feed some people at a soup kitchen, or go to church, or do anything commanded by Christ, then you are fine.

Pulling sheep out of a ditch is definitely something to be done on the sabbath.

I am sure many will not be ok with this, but I think this is a fair analysis of what the entire Bible tells us to do, not just parts. I hope this helps.

You're close!

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Error is error. In other words, just because Ignatius believed and promulgated an error doesn't make the error true - that's a huge error in logic. It's a fallacy to think that simply promoting an error makes it true. Clearly Ignatius did not observe the sabbath. That's common knowledge. That that doesn't make dismissing the 4th commandment correct, it just shows the error that Ignatius promulgated.

If Ignatius had purposed this with any of the other commandments, say the 9th for example, would that mean that bearing false witness was acceptable? Of course not.

If one instructed their child not to take the car without permission, and they did it anyway, that would not make the admonition to not take the car any less true. The error of the child would not annul the commandment of the parent.

I would not argue that just because a Saint said something that it must be true. In fact we have examples of Saints saying and teaching things that are not true. Saints are human.
In those cases where we know there is error in their teaching, we know it because people objected and wrote against it. A principle objection has always been, especially early on, that the teaching is contrary to what the Apostles taught.

I would argue that if a leader of the early Church taught something contrary to the truth or even what some perhaps wrongly felt was false, there would be complaints. Especially in the first century when some of the Apostles are still around and a large number of Christians living who heard the Apostles teach.

I would also think changing a commandment, if indeed the Saturday/Sunday issue represented such as some claim in this thread, then it would be something people would not accept over-night. Yet we have no protests to Ignatius's words in the first century.

It is not like we do not have early examples, even biblical ones of some very minor (and major) issues being fought out. If Ignatius is teaching this before the end of the first century, then it is a pretty good bet that he got this from the Apostles themselves. Hence the reason no one objects when he wrote it. And if the Apostles taught it, then am hardly perpared to claim this represents either a false teaching or something contrary to our Lord's 10 commandments.

 

[RND]

I would not argue that just because a Saint said something that it must be true. In fact we have examples of Saints saying and teaching things that are not true. Saints are human.

Correct.

In those cases where we know there is error in their teaching, we know it because people objected and wrote against it. A principle objection has always been, especially early on, that the teaching is contrary to what the Apostles taught.

Correct.

I would argue that if a leader of the early Church taught something contrary to the truth or even what some perhaps wrongly felt was false, there would be complaints. Especially in the first century when some of the Apostles are still around and a large number of Christians living who heard the Apostles teach.

Well that's one possibility. Or it could be evidence that the majority kept the sabbath and that majority didn't waste time with dissenters.

I would also think changing a commandment, if indeed the Saturday/Sunday issue represented such as some claim in this thread, then it would be something people would not accept over-night. Yet we have no protests to Ignatius's words in the first century.

Well, that's not entirely accurate is it? The fact is that there have always been sabbath keepers as evidenced by the attempts to outlaw the sabbath by the council of Laodicea.

"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100. - Josephus

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." "A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath," p. 77

Note: By the "Lord's day" here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath," which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. It illustrates the apostasy that Paul the Apostle foretold of when he spoke about a great "falling away" from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

It is not like we do not have early examples, even biblical ones of some very minor (and major) issues being fought out.

We have example of other commandment breakers in action during this time as well. Does that make them right or is it evidence of being in error?

If Ignatius is teaching this before the end of the first century, then it is a pretty good bet that he got this from the Apostles themselves. Hence the reason no one objects when he wrote it.

Yet, that would be a monumental "guess."

And if the Apostles taught it, then am hardly perpared to claim this represents either a false teaching or something contrary to our Lord's 10 commandments.

[/quote]

Well considering the amount of evidence that the disciples kept the sabbath I'd say Ignatius was teaching error.

 

[childofmercy]

Well, a person can't hardly read through and keep track of this many pages . I'm sure someone's posted this but in the event they haven't ... and it never hurts to see it again .. two for witness and all that. Here's this person's belief on the Sabbath.

If you look you'll find that all the ten commandments are mentioned in the NT except 'Honor the Sabbath day ...'

Does that mean we don't honor it? No. It means it isn't the same. Before Jesus walked the earth in the OT this was a day to honor the Lord. Today we honor the Lord, Himself. King of Kings. Our SABBATH ... Jesus. We rest in JESUS ... not on some day. We rest in the Sabbath every day. I don't know about you but the world just doesn't stop so I can rest on Sun or Mon or Tues or whatever. No day is our rest. JESUS is our rest.

Hebrews 4:1-11 specifically speaks to this. Today is the day of rest. Today ... on this day. Everyday!

Hebrews 4:8,9,10,11

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest, he hath also ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labor therefore into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


rest - place of abode. We abide in Christ. This is a place of spiritual rest we enter... not physical.

We labour here to rest with Christ in heaven. We rest in Christ here until then. Therefore we rest from our labours ... in Christ ... our Sabbath.

 

[RND]

Well, a person can't hardly read through and keep track of this many pages . I'm sure someone's posted this but in the event they haven't ... and it never hurts to see it again .. two for witness and all that. Here's this person's belief on the Sabbath.

If you look you'll find that all the ten commandments are mentioned in the NT except 'Honor the Sabbath day ...'

The sabbath day is mentioned/referenced 84 times in the NT.

Does that mean we don't honor it? No. It means it isn't the same. Before Jesus walked the earth in the OT this was a day to honor the Lord. Today we honor the Lord, Himself. King of Kings. Our SABBATH ... Jesus. We rest in JESUS ... not on some day. We rest in the Sabbath every day. I don't know about you but the world just doesn't stop so I can rest on Sun or Mon or Tues or whatever. No day is our rest. JESUS is our rest.

Jesus kept the sabbath. It's His. He owns it. He made it.

Hebrews 4:1-11 specifically speaks to this. Today is the day of rest. Today ... on this day. Everyday!

Hebrews 4:8,9,10,11

Heb. 4:9 said specifically the remains a sabbath for the people proving it hasn't gone anywhere.

Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
NIV - There remains, then, a Sabbath‑rest for the people of God;

ESV - So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

PS: Why didn't the COI enter into the promised land, which, metaphorically was a "type" of the sabbath?

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

A sabbatismos. Sabbath keeping.

For he that is entered into his rest, he hath also ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Rest - katapausis, not sabbatismos.

Let us labor therefore into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Rest - katapausis, not sabbatismos.

rest - place of abode. We abide in Christ. This is a place of spiritual rest we enter... not physical.

Not in Hebrew 4:9.

We labour here to rest with Christ in heaven. We rest in Christ here until then. Therefore we rest from our labours ... in Christ ... our Sabbath.

Very poetic, hardly scriptural. The disobedient never enter into "that rest."