The son of man coming “with” his kingdom

[claninja]

Matthew 16:28 would be better understood as christ coming “with” his kingdom instead of “into” his kingdom.

Matthew 16:28 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming “with” (en) his kingdom (or royal power).”

“En”
of that which one either leads or brings with him, or with which he is furnished or equipped; especially after verbs of coming (ἐν of accompaniment), where we often say with: ἐν δέκα χιλιάσιν ὑπανταν, Luke 14:31; ἦλθεν ἐν μυριάσι, Jude 1:14; cf. Grimm on 1 Macc. 1:17; ἐισέρχεσθαι ἐναἵματι, Hebrews 9:25; ἐν τῷ ὕδατι καί ἐντῷ αἵματι, 1 John 5:6 (i. e. with the water of baptism and the blood of atonement, by means of both which he has procured the pardon of our sins, of which fact we are assured by the testimony of the Holy Spirit); ἐν ῤάβδῳ, 1 Corinthians 4:21; ἐνπληρώματι εὐλογίας, Romans 15:29; φθάνειν ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ, 2 Corinthians 10:14; ἐν πνεύματι καί δυνάμει ἥλιον, imbued or furnished with the spirit and power of Elijah, Luke 1:17; ἐν τῇ βασιλείααὐτοῦ, furnished with the regal power of the Messiah, possessed of his kingly power (Buttmann, 330 (284)): Matthew 16:28; (Strong's Greek: 1722. ἐν (en) -- in, on, at, by, with)

The parallel passage in mark 9:1

1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with (en) power.”


So what does it mean that some wouldn’t taste death until they saw the son of man coming with his kingdom/royal power or that some would not taste death until the kingdom of God would arrive with power?

 

[DavidPT]

Matthew 16:28 would be better understood as christ coming “with” his kingdom instead of “into” his kingdom.

Matthew 16:28 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming “with” (en) his kingdom (or royal power).”

“En”
of that which one either leads or brings with him, or with which he is furnished or equipped; especially after verbs of coming (ἐν of accompaniment), where we often say with: ἐν δέκα χιλιάσιν ὑπανταν, Luke 14:31; ἦλθεν ἐν μυριάσι, Jude 1:14; cf. Grimm on 1 Macc. 1:17; ἐισέρχεσθαι ἐναἵματι, Hebrews 9:25; ἐν τῷ ὕδατι καί ἐντῷ αἵματι, 1 John 5:6 (i. e. with the water of baptism and the blood of atonement, by means of both which he has procured the pardon of our sins, of which fact we are assured by the testimony of the Holy Spirit); ἐν ῤάβδῳ, 1 Corinthians 4:21; ἐνπληρώματι εὐλογίας, Romans 15:29; φθάνειν ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ, 2 Corinthians 10:14; ἐν πνεύματι καί δυνάμει ἥλιον, imbued or furnished with the spirit and power of Elijah, Luke 1:17; ἐν τῇ βασιλείααὐτοῦ, furnished with the regal power of the Messiah, possessed of his kingly power (Buttmann, 330 (284)): Matthew 16:28; (Strong's Greek: 1722. ἐν (en) -- in, on, at, by, with)

The parallel passage in mark 9:1

1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with (en) power.”


So what does it mean that some wouldn’t taste death until they saw the son of man coming with his kingdom/royal power or that some would not taste death until the kingdom of God would arrive with power?

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


Verse 24 helps to establish context since this appears to be involving want to be disciples. Not just His regular 12 disciples, though. As shown below.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

As to Matthew 16:25, where else have we heard something similar? How about the following?

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

This seems to tell us that if one wants to be His follower(disciple) that it's not going to be easy sailing, that it's going to get rough out there instead, the fact, according to Matthew 24, Luke 17:33 fits during an AOD involving great tribulation. We can know that by comparing Luke 17:31 with that of Matthew 24:17-18.

When we get to verse 27, though, meaning in Matthew 16, that appears to be involving what happens once He bodily returns in the future. For example. Compare--For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels with Matthew 24:30 and Matthew 25:31. Compare--and then he shall reward every man according to his works with Revelation 22:12.

And then there is verse 28. So how do we apply that in light of the above, assuming the above is being interpreted correctly?

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Is this meaning before what verse 27 will be involving? Or is this meaning during what verse 27 will be involving? Obviously, per my take of things, right or wrong, what's recorded in verse 25 has to happen before what is recorded in verse 27 can happen. And the fact Matthew 25:31 involves the judging of His profitable servants and unprofitable servants, the latter being cast into the LOF, and the fact that it is called the 2nd death, that could be when some of these standing there at the time shall taste of death, the 2nd death in this case. After all, it's not like there won't be a resurrection of the dead in the future, involving both the saved and lost. I'm not dogmatic that this is how verse 28 needs to be understood. I just see it as a possible interpretation is all, based on verse 27 and how that connects with Matthew 25 and the sheep and goats judgment.

Some try to apply verse 28 to that of the transfiguration that apparently happens some days later. I find that interpretation unreasonable since it is involving His regular disciples, which means this interpretation is applying the tasting of death to that of His regular disciples despite what the following records which refutes this interpretation.

John 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.


Granted, the Jews said that is what Jesus said. Yet, what you don't see is Jesus denying He said that or trying to correct their misunderstanding of what He said, in the event they were misunderstanding it. Therefore, to apply verse 28 to the transfiguration is to have Jesus contradicting Himself in verse 28 if He is already on record saying If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Obviously, the fact everyone pretty much dies the first death, the saved and unsaved both, the death meant here has to be meaning the 2nd death then, because clearly, anyone that keeps His saying, they still taste of the first death, regardless. They never taste of the 2nd death ever, though.

 

[claninja]

John 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.


Granted, the Jews said that is what Jesus said. Yet, what you don't see is Jesus denying He said that or trying to correct their misunderstanding of what He said, in the event they were misunderstanding it. Therefore, to apply verse 28 to the transfiguration is to have Jesus contradicting Himself in verse 28 if He is already on record saying If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Obviously, the fact everyone pretty much dies the first death, the saved and unsaved both, the death meant here has to be meaning the 2nd death then, because clearly, anyone that keeps His saying, they still taste of the first death, regardless. They never taste of the 2nd death ever, though

A common theme among John’s literary works is that believers have already passed from death to life, and have eternal life. So I wouldn’t agree that Jesus is referring to the 2nd death in 8:51. Instead, consistently with John’s theme, Jesus is referring to the death that believers have already passed from into eternal life upon believing in Him. So John’s gospel isn’t the best comparison.

John 5:24 24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

John 3:16 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Additionally, there are other examples, where tasting or seeing death refer to physical death -

Hebrews 2:9 9But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Luke 2:26 26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not taste death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

 

[DavidPT]

A common theme among John’s literary works is that believers have already passed from death to life, and have eternal life.

True, but toss into the mix NOSAS and no way does that still equal what you submitted. Unfortunetely, it is debatable though it shouldn't be, as to whether or not NOSAS is Biblical.

 

[Matt5]

"So what does it mean that some wouldn’t taste death until they saw the son of man coming with his kingdom/royal power or that some would not taste death until the kingdom of God would arrive with power?"

At the time Jesus arrives, everybody will have already been placed in four categories:

1. Dead. Parable of the talents - the harvests (big wars). Do nothing and die.
2. Taken the mark. Got fooled by the fake bridegroom in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins.
3. Avoided the mark and was killed - the dead in Christ. The wise virgins.
4. A few still standing who were hiding out in the wilderness in order to avoid the mark.

You get to decide which category you want to be in. Most want #1. Half the remaining Christians want #2. A few smart Christians ended up in #4. Will there even be a million people in #4?

 

[Oseas]

Hosea 6:1-3 - -The Word is GOD, self-executable,

1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord:for He hath torn, and He will heal us; He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.

2 After two Days will He revive us:in the 3rd Day He will raise us up,and we shall live in His sight. (Combined with Philippians 3:20-21)

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.


John 2:13-16&18-19 -The Word is GOD, self-executing

13 And the Jews' passover was at hand,and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And found in the Temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves,and the changers of money sitting:
15And when he had made a scourge of small cords,He drove them all out of the Temple,and the sheep,and the oxen;and poured out the changers' money,and overthrew the tables;
16And said unto them that sold doves,Take these things

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto Him, What sign shew thou unto us, seeing that thou does these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this Temple, and in three Days I will raise it up.

2Pe.3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.



Acts 1:9-11

9 And when He had spoken these things,while they beheld,He was taken up;and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two MEN stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.

1Thessalonians 4:16

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of GOD:

Dan.12:1 - And at that time shall Michael stand up...and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

GET READY

 

[Oseas]

Biblical Chronology of the times

Based in the Word of God, on GOD's six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, so MANKIND would go through six GOD Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years).

According biblical Chronology, starting by Genesis 5, as follow:

Adam lived ..........................................130 yrs and begat Seth

Seth lived .............................................105 yrs and begat Enosh;

Enosh lived ............................................90 yrs and begat Kenan;

Kenanlived..............................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;

Mahalalellived ......................................65 yrs and begat Jared;

Jaredlived .............................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;

Enochlived .............................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah;

Methuselahlived.................................187 yrs and begat Lamech;

Lamechlived.........................................182 yrs and begat Noah;

From Noah's birth till the Flood 600 yrs.

Total of years from Adam to the Flood=1656 yrs

Notice that the table above is proved by the Word of GOD, Let us study the times until our days by the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD. So,see the timetable below:

SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ---------------------- DURATION

I - From Adam to the Flood-( Genesis 5)---------------1656 years

II - From the Flood to Abraham-( Genesis 11&12)------427 years

III - From Abraham to Exodus-(Gal.3:17)----------------430 years

IV-From Exodus to king Saul-(1Reis6:1(480-84)---------396 years

V -From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem --------------------508 years

VI -From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus ------------------587 years

Thus,from Adam to the 1stcoming of Jesus ------------4004 years

From Jesus to our days(Christian Calendar)-------------2023 years

Total from Adam to our days ---------------------------6027 years

So, we are living in the beginning of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day,the Lord's Day

Get ready

 

[Marilyn C]

Matthew 16:28 would be better understood as christ coming “with” his kingdom instead of “into” his kingdom.

Matthew 16:28 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming “with” (en) his kingdom (or royal power).”

“En”
of that which one either leads or brings with him, or with which he is furnished or equipped; especially after verbs of coming (ἐν of accompaniment), where we often say with: ἐν δέκα χιλιάσιν ὑπανταν, Luke 14:31; ἦλθεν ἐν μυριάσι, Jude 1:14; cf. Grimm on 1 Macc. 1:17; ἐισέρχεσθαι ἐναἵματι, Hebrews 9:25; ἐν τῷ ὕδατι καί ἐντῷ αἵματι, 1 John 5:6 (i. e. with the water of baptism and the blood of atonement, by means of both which he has procured the pardon of our sins, of which fact we are assured by the testimony of the Holy Spirit); ἐν ῤάβδῳ, 1 Corinthians 4:21; ἐνπληρώματι εὐλογίας, Romans 15:29; φθάνειν ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ, 2 Corinthians 10:14; ἐν πνεύματι καί δυνάμει ἥλιον, imbued or furnished with the spirit and power of Elijah, Luke 1:17; ἐν τῇ βασιλείααὐτοῦ, furnished with the regal power of the Messiah, possessed of his kingly power (Buttmann, 330 (284)): Matthew 16:28; (Strong's Greek: 1722. ἐν (en) -- in, on, at, by, with)

The parallel passage in mark 9:1

1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with (en) power.”


So what does it mean that some wouldn’t taste death until they saw the son of man coming with his kingdom/royal power or that some would not taste death until the kingdom of God would arrive with power?

Jesus was referring to His transfiguration in Matt. 16: 28. Peter, James and John saw the Lord in His royal glory.

The other reference to the Lord`s coming in royal power is at the end of the trib.

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to His work.` (Matt. 16: 27)

 

[claninja]

True, but toss into the mix NOSAS and no way does that still equal what you submitted. Unfortunetely, it is debatable though it shouldn't be, as to whether or not NOSAS is Biblical.

I would argue OSAS only refers to believers who remain faithful “to the end”. Therefore, NOSAS refers to the person who initially believed, but doesn’t remain faithful “to the end”. Both are true in a sense…And are completely irrelevant to my point:

John’s examples of never seeing death shouldn’t be extrapolated to Matthew’s never tasting death.