The Separate Will Of The Trinity?

[Jeffersonian]

I've been talking with a minister lately about some things related to Jesus. The minister says that Jesus decided to die for us, as if the father gave him the choice to do it or not. i , for the other part, believe that Jesus was commanded to come by the Father and he responded with humility and obedience. The minister says that God the father let the son used his will, since that's part of His nature, to give liberty of choosing.

Now, im a trinitarian, and to believe that God offer the choice of dying for us to Jesus is to say that the trinity have separate wills, but when i read the bible, this is what i find :

John 4:34
English Standard Version (ESV)
34Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.

John 5:19
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Authority of the Son

19So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father[a] does, that the Son does likewise.


John 5:30
English Standard Version (ESV)
Witnesses to Jesus

30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

John 6:38
English Standard Version (ESV)
38For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

John 8:42
English Standard Version (ESV)
42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Do you think Jesus decided for himself as the second person of the trinity, or he just obey the father's command?

 

[2thePoint]

Phil. 2:5-11 says that Jesus chose to lay his divine privilege aside in order to become human and die for us. Jesus also told his disciples that he would lay down his life. It couldn't have been forced or it wouldn't have been done out of love.

 

[PaladinValer]

God has only one Will. While each person of the Holy Trinity are wholly separate People, they all have the same Will: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are in perpetual agreement on all things.

 

[Jeffersonian]

thats what i believe Paladin. but one of my question is, do you believe Jesus obey a commandemnt? or did the father gave him the option ?
the minister im talking about thinks that the Father gave Jesus the opportunity of choosing, do you think this is true?

 

[PaladinValer]

thats what i believe Paladin. but one of my question is, do you believe Jesus obey a commandemnt? or did the father gave him the option ?
the minister im talking about thinks that the Father gave Jesus the opportunity of choosing, do you think this is true?

We have to remember that Jesus is the Incarnation of God the Son. As such, Jesus is as much a human being as He is God. He has two natures and two wills; a hypostatic union in one Person. As such, as a human, He could choose, but as God, He cannot. Since the wills are always in cooperation however, He always agrees with His Father.

This is why the Incarnation is so vital to our Christian faith. Jesus' human will is always in agreement with the Divine Will. It would therefore seem like He has only one but He truly does have two (or otherwise, He'd be a failed incarnation). He lived as one of us except without any sin: a true human being, wholly human: a worthy and perfect sacrifice. No one else could but He could. God became man that man could become God, not in substance, but in energy: this is theosis.

We shall one day have a good will again when existence is transfigured and we along with it. We shall never want to disagree with God's Will again; it will be a glorious everlasting life!

 

[Jpark]

Phil. 2:5-11 says that Jesus chose to lay his divine privilege aside in order to become human and die for us. Jesus also told his disciples that he would lay down his life. It couldn't have been forced or it wouldn't have been done out of love.

This is true.

If I may point out something important, desire was crucial to this.

Isaiah 14 and Genesis 11 shows us that people wanted to be exalted and were humbled. Jesus wanted to be humbled and was exalted.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Jesus prayed saying: "Father, if it is Your will, remove this cup from Me; nevertheless, "not My will, but Yours, be done." Luke 22:42. NKJV

The way I read this is that Christ submitted His human will to His Father's Divine will. This verse seems to speak of two separate wills, yet through His Divine nature, sets before us the example that the will of the Father superceeds all human desires.

Even God's own Divine Son willingly submits to His Father's will!

 

[John Zain]

Jesus prayed saying:
"Father, if it is Your will, remove this cup from Me; nevertheless, "not My will, but Yours, be done." Luke 22:42. NKJV
The way I read this is that Christ submitted His human will to His Father's Divine will.
This verse seems to speak of two separate wills, yet through His Divine nature,
sets before us the example that the will of the Father superceeds all human desires.
Even God's own Divine Son willingly submits to His Father's will!

A very interesting topic.

Re: the above, I believe you should see this from the viewpoint of Jesus as "fully man".
In His flesh, He just did not relish the horror of being crucified.

However, Jesus as "fully God" was always in control of the human part of Him.
He was able to do this ONLY because He did NOT have a human father ... He did NOT have man's sin nature.
Why else was it necessary for Jesus' Father to be the Holy Spirit?
Thus, although He often was tempted (as we are) to sin, He never succumed to doing it.

And, He willingly submitted to the Father's will (and the original plan of crucifixion).
.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

A very interesting topic.

Re: the above, I believe you should see this from the viewpoint of Jesus as "fully man".
In His flesh, He just did not relish the horror of being crucified.

However, Jesus as "fully God" was always in control of the human part of Him.
He was able to do this ONLY because He did NOT have a human father ... He did NOT have man's sin nature.
Why else was it necessary for Jesus' Father to be the Holy Spirit?
Thus, although He often was tempted (as we are) to sin, He never succumed to doing it.

And, He willingly submitted to the Father's will (and the original plan of crucifixion).
.

You actually contend that the Holy Spirit is Jesus' Father? That's usually a criticism by Trinity opponents, and you've admitted you believe that.

First, it confounds the "persons" of your Trinity; but moreso it just makes the whole Trinity doctrinal formulation untenable and laughable.

At least stay within the very broad and corrupted bounds of the orthodox perimeter. The Father is Jesus' Father, not the Holy Spirit. If you can't exegete that correctly and understand it, don't misrepresent the Trinity doctrine.

I'm not a Trinitarian, but I was for 28 years: and Trintiy does NOT include the Holy Spirit being the Father of Jesus.